tr1 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Johnson didn't pay much respect to Landry, either. http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/15069270.htm DOLPHINS Healing time for Don Shula After 11 years in retirement, legendary Dolphins coach Don Shula is now comfortable and excited about the Dolphins in 2006. By GREG COTE gcote@miamiherald.com Don Shula is comfortable again with the football franchise he put on the national map. It hasn't always been so in the 11 years -- can it really be that long? -- since he last coached the Dolphins. For too much of that time, Shula has felt estranged from the club or been disappointed to see it adrift. Now an enthusiasm that had been missing from his voice comes across as he speaks of the 2006 team that opens training camp next week. Now the patriarch feels something about his club that he hasn't in a long time: excitement. A sense that the stagnation that followed his retirement is over. ''Nick Saban has got 'em headed in the right direction,'' Shula said Tuesday of Miami's second-year coach, ``after about nine years of not heading in the right direction.'' Shula looks good. He is 76. The famous jaw still juts. The Super Bowl ring still shines on his left hand. You can ask him which one of the two he wears. But you shouldn't have to. ''The Perfect Season,'' he says. Shula disliked Jimmy Johnson, the man who replaced him in 1996, and that might be putting it mildly, and The Don -- ordinarily loath to utter a controversial word -- doesn't care if you know it. He does not mention Johnson by name. ''I didn't admire the guy who took over for me,'' Shula says, as the temperature in the room plummets. ``His four-year record indicated that.'' Johnson did what to Shula is sacrilegious. He turned his back on Dolphins history. In Miami, Dolphins history and Don Shula are the same thing. ''He wanted to forget about everything that had happened,'' says a still-bitter Shula. ``Everything we accomplished.'' MENDING FENCES Dave Wannstedt came next and put salve on some wounds, welcoming Shula back, respecting the franchise's heritage. But Wannstedt's five seasons didn't move the team forward. ''Wannstedt was a good guy, but he was never able to get it going. He just didn't get it done,'' Shula says. ``Drifting is a good word.'' The old coach gives you the impression that now, with Saban, the coaching reins at last are in the right hands. Qualified hands. Shula is entitled to have a say on his worthy successor. An NFL-record 347 wins, most of them in 26 years with Miami, including those 1972-73 Super Bowls, give him the right. Shula admires New England's Bill Belichick as much as any coach working, and Saban is a Belichick protégé. Shula likes what he sees. He calls Saban ''no nonsense, no pretense,'' and, from an old-school coach, that's high praise. (Speaking of old-school mentality, don't get Shula started on Ricky Williams. With a twinkle, he says, ``They need to find a way to keep him from walking around India with an elephant.'') Shula doesn't agree with everything about Saban, such as not allowing his assistant coaches to speak to the news media, but thinks this might be the coach who can end the club's long championship drought and cause a South Florida celebration that would dwarf the one we just had for the Heat. Football remains King Sport here, after all. Let there be no doubt. ''Saban looks like he has a knack of getting guys ready to play big games, and, from what I've seen, a great attention to detail,'' Shula says. The Super Bowl is in Miami this coming season. Can the Dolphins be in it? ''Yeah, coming off six straight wins [to end last season] and looking like they've strengthened their team since then,'' Shula says. ``It looks like they're good enough to contend.'' The coach loves the signing of Daunte Culpepper, presuming full recovery from knee surgery, saying, ``The Culpepper of two, three years ago did everything that as a coach you want your quarterback to do.'' Shula had one of those. Some guy named Dan Marino. Culpepper could be the worthy successor that eluded the club for so long, in much the same way Saban could be. Shula was at Mount Sinai Medical Center in Miami Beach when we caught up with him Tuesday, making an appearance on behalf of the work he does to raise awareness about high blood pressure. Catching up with Shula isn't as easy as it might seem. At his age, he isn't going to outrun you. It's just that, with homes in Miami Beach, the mountains of North Carolina and near golfing heaven in Pebble Beach, Calif., you're never quite sure where he'll be. The best bet is that he'll be busy, with a combined eight children and 16 grandchildren for him and second wife Mary Anne. ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barney B Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Johnson didn't pay much respect to Landry, either. Yep. Egotists seldom genuflect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Johnson didn't pay much respect to Landry, either. Johnson douched the two biggest icons of their time! And his hair never moved. Saban sure has earned the respect of many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I didn't/don't like Jimmy Johnson or Don Shula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I didn't/don't like Jimmy Johnson or Don Shula. Shula was okay. I always hated Johnson, then again, how many Skins fans would like him. He was okay with Terry, Howie and JB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Animal Trainer Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 You've got to give Shula the credit he deserves. The best season in NFL history is quite an accomplishment. And anyone who hates Jimmy Johnson earns some points from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 You've got to give Shula the credit he deserves. The best season in NFL history is quite an accomplishment. And anyone who hates Jimmy Johnson earns some points from me. I give Shula credit for coaching roughly 30 straight years without a championship. He had the undeafeted season and the ability to coach mediocre teams for a LONG time. I wouldn't even put him in the top 5 (maybe even top 10) coaches of all-time. I would put Jimmy Johnson well ahead of him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycanuck Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I give Shula credit for coaching roughly 30 straight years without a championship. He had the undeafeted season and the ability to coach mediocre teams for a LONG time. I wouldn't even put him in the top 5 (maybe even top 10) coaches of all-time. I would put Jimmy Johnson well ahead of him. you must be kidding. The guy has more wins than any coach in NFL history, 2 super bowls and an undefeated season. I'm a Cowboy fan and I love Jimmy, but he didn't have the longevity or the success with more than one team that Shula had. Shula is a pantheon level coach.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 you must be kidding. The guy has more wins than any coach in NFL history, 2 super bowls and an undefeated season. I'm a Cowboy fan and I love Jimmy, but he didn't have the longevity or the success with more than one team that Shula had. Shula is a pantheon level coach.... He has the most wins because he coached forever. He also has the 2nd most losses. I just don't think you can be considered that great of a coach when you go 30 years without a title - especially when you have, statistically, the greatest QB to ever play the game. Johnson won more Super Bowls in less time (not to mention what he did on the college level). He was the better coach, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycanuck Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 He has the most wins because he coached forever. He also has the 2nd most losses. I just don't think you can be considered that great of a coach when you go 30 years without a title - especially when you have, statistically, the greatest QB to ever play the game. Johnson won more Super Bowls in less time (not to mention what he did on the college level). He was the better coach, period. you make a point about Shula's longevity, but had Johnson coached longer, as long as Shula there is no way of knowing that he would have won as many as Shula, or lost less...in fact Johnson's tenure in Miami was obviously much less stellar than his glory days in Dallas. If Johnson wanted to ensure his place in history he should have sucked it up and stayed in Dallas, where they had a chance to win 4 in row.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 you make a point about Shula's longevity, but had Johnson coached longer, as long as Shula there is no way of knowing that he would have won as many as Shula, or lost less...in fact Johnson's tenure in Miami was obviously much less stellar than his glory days in Dallas. If Johnson wanted to ensure his place in history he should have sucked it up and stayed in Dallas, where they had a chance to win 4 in row.... Well... you're not going to get me to defend Johnson too much. I hate that ****er. I'm just objective enough to see that he was a better coach than Shula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Well... you're not going to get me to defend Johnson too much. I hate that ****er. I'm just objective enough to see that he was a better coach than Shula. I'm sorry but Jimmy Johnson was not a better coach than Don Shula in any way, shape or form. You can't reward Jimmy Johnson for hanging up his coaching spurs early. Don Shula coached 6 teams to the SB with 4 different QBs and arguably his best team the 1967 Colts didn't even make the playoffs even though they lost only one game. Jimmy Johnson coached 9 seasons and had double digit wins only 4 times. Shula coached 33 years and had 20 double digit win seasons. Keep in mind that for the first half of his career teams only played 14 games (and the 1982 strike season they were 7-2). You note that Shula had the 2nd most losses all time but fail to note that his winning percentage of 66% over 33 years is worlds better than Johnson's 55%. Johnson's record his four years with the Dolphins was worse than Shula's last 4 with them. As a matter of fact, Dave Wannstedt had a better record with the Dolphins in the four years that followed. Shula, much like Tom Landry, should have hung it up a few years earlier than he did but he is and was twice the coach that Jimmy Johnson ever hoped to be. If you want to argue that Landry was a better coach or Lombardi, Halas or Brown then you might have an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazycanuck Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Well... you're not going to get me to defend Johnson too much. I hate that ****er. I'm just objective enough to see that he was a better coach than Shula. fair enough...its a switch in here to have a 'Skins fan sticking up for a Cowboy coach to a Cowboy fan, in fact it must be a first... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 He has the most wins because he coached forever. He also has the 2nd most losses. I just don't think you can be considered that great of a coach when you go 30 years without a title - especially when you have, statistically, the greatest QB to ever play the game. Johnson won more Super Bowls in less time (not to mention what he did on the college level). He was the better coach, period. Johnson had the same "greatest QB to ever play the game" and did worse and Johnson did not win more SBs than Shula. They both won back-to-back SBs and that's it. Johnson is much closer to Tom Flores as a coach than he is Don Shula. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Johnson had the same "greatest QB to ever play the game" and did worse and Johnson did not win more SBs than Shula. They both won back-to-back SBs and that's it. Johnson is much closer to Tom Flores as a coach than he is Don Shula. Fine, whatever. Like I said, I'm not going to defend Johnson too much. My main point was that I think Shula is vastly overrated. You say I fail to mention Shula's winning %, but you failt to mention Johnson's college days - which I pointed out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Fine, whatever. Like I said, I'm not going to defend Johnson too much. My main point was that I think Shula is vastly overrated. You say I fail to mention Shula's winning %, but you failt to mention Johnson's college days - which I pointed out. I'm sorry but college doesn't mean much to me. We had a pretty good college coach here a couple of years ago. I think you are falling into the trap that many sports fans do in only recognizing the end of a coach or player's career and defining them by that. A lot of people do that with Emmitt Smith or Cal Ripken for example and forget that they were truly great players in their primes. If you compare how Don Shula did in his first 144 games, which is the total number of games that Jimmy Johnson coached in the NFL, Shula blows him away: Jimmy Johnson 80-64 (9-4 playoff record, 2-0 SBs) Don Shula 117-32-5* (9-5 playoff record, 2-2 SBs, 0-1 in NFL Championship games) Keep in mind that when Shula took over the Dolphins they had never won more than 5 games in a season and he immediately got them to 10 wins and then 3 straight SBs. In his 33 year career Don Shula coached in 10 NFL, NFC or AFC Championship games or once every three years. *Shula's 144th game came in the middle of his 11th season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 I'm sorry but college doesn't mean much to me. We had a pretty good college coach here a couple of years ago. I think you are falling into the trap that many sports fans do in only recognizing the end of a coach or player's career and defining them by that. A lot of people do that with Emmitt Smith or Cal Ripken for example and forget that they were truly great players in their primes. If you compare how Don Shula did in his first 144 games, which is the total number of games that Jimmy Johnson coached in the NFL, Shula blows him away: Jimmy Johnson 80-64 (9-4 playoff record, 2-0 SBs) Don Shula 117-32-5* (9-5 playoff record, 2-2 SBs, 0-1 in NFL Championship games) Keep in mind that when Shula took over the Dolphins they had never won more than 5 games in a season and he immediately got them to 10 wins and then 3 straight SBs. *Shula's 144th game came in the middle of his 11th season Again - you're trying to get me to defend Johnson. Ain't gonna happen. You say I define Shula by the end of his career - I guess you're right if you consider the last nearly 30 years of his career 'the end'. I'm sorry people try to rank him with Walsh, Gibbs, Lombardi, Parcells, etc... I just don't see it. As I've said before - he went nearly 30 without winning a championship WITH Dan Marino. To me that does not equal a great coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Again - you're trying to get me to defend Johnson. Ain't gonna happen.You say I define Shula by the end of his career - I guess you're right if you consider the last nearly 30 years of his career 'the end'. I'm sorry people try to rank him with Walsh, Gibbs, Lombardi, Parcells, etc... I just don't see it. As I've said before - he went nearly 30 without winning a championship WITH Dan Marino. To me that does not equal a great coach. I'm sorry but 22 years isn't nearly 30 years and I'm not claiming that he was the best coach of all time but he is certainly in a different universe from Jimmy Johnson. If any of the coaches you mentioned had coached as long as he did they probably would have run into the same problems. Take a look at Shula in whatever year the above coaches retired and compare their resumes and Shula does fairly well. The most comparable coach to Shula is Tom Landry who is also in a different league than Jimmy Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Again - you're trying to get me to defend Johnson. Ain't gonna happen.You say I define Shula by the end of his career - I guess you're right if you consider the last nearly 30 years of his career 'the end'. I'm sorry people try to rank him with Walsh, Gibbs, Lombardi, Parcells, etc... I just don't see it. As I've said before - he went nearly 30 without winning a championship WITH Dan Marino. To me that does not equal a great coach. I don't get what you mean when you say "the last 30 years of his career." Shula coached in the NFL for 33 yrs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Again - you're trying to get me to defend Johnson. Ain't gonna happen. He does have nice hair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted July 20, 2006 Share Posted July 20, 2006 Sorry - it was 22 years without a title. That's still a mighty long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruffylookin Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 You say I fail to mention Shula's winning %, but you failt to mention Johnson's college days - which I pointed out. You keep bringing up Johnson's days in college. He was mediocre at Oklahoma State and while he won at Miami, he didn't build the program. He inherited a national championship program and finally delivered another one 4 years later. Dennis Erickson won more than Johnson did at Miami, is Erickson a better coach? I respect what Johnson was able to build in Dallas, but he is in no way shape or form a better coach than Don Shula. Not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drowland Posted July 21, 2006 Share Posted July 21, 2006 I'm sorry but 22 years isn't nearly 30 years and I'm not claiming that he was the best coach of all time but he is certainly in a different universe from Jimmy Johnson. If any of the coaches you mentioned had coached as long as he did they probably would have run into the same problems. Take a look at Shula in whatever year the above coaches retired and compare their resumes and Shula does fairly well. The most comparable coach to Shula is Tom Landry who is also in a different league than Jimmy Johnson. You can compare him to Chuck Noll as well. Noll's another guy who stayed around long after his great Steeler teams got old. Their last SB was 1980, then the Steelers were mediocre through the 80s and early 90s before Cowher took over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tr1 Posted July 21, 2006 Author Share Posted July 21, 2006 You know, being a good coach sometimes means paying homage to the guy who was there before you, and who was the fans' hero. That's the first thing I disliked about Norvis....his struggle to mention our earlier glory years, but his eagerness to recount his days with the pukes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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