Gamebreaker Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by kleese Just to clarify, the "criticism" of Davis has been on two main points: 1. How does he compare to the other GREAT backs in the NFL-- Faulk, James, Holmes, etc.... 2. What does he deserve come contract time? No one is saying that Davis isn't a top 10 NFL back. No one is saying he ins't our best offensive player. As a matter of fact, no one even seems to be saying that he isn't a VERY good NFL RB. But I take these following points: --His fumbles and bad games, however rare, HAVE come at bad times. --He isn't very explosive, meaning if you get him stopped early, chances are he won't KILL you with one big play ala Faulk, etc... --He's getting up there in age for a RB and his punishing style leaves him prone to injury. That's it, really, IMO. I just don't think he is in the elite class of RB in this league and I simply wouldn't break the bank for the guy. He's very good, but he isn't a BIG difference maker, IMO. I can only remember one game where Davis fumbling really hurt us, and that was the Chargers game in the opener last season. Just because he fumbled once last week doesn't mean he had a bad game. His ypc were pretty high and he had some pretty good runs. The team probably would've had more opportunities to score, and wouldn't have had so many three and outs if they'd given him the rock more. He is capable of making big plays, he's fast for a guy his size and it usually takes a few tacklers to bring him down. In '99, he broke a few big runs. But since then he's faced 8 men fronts and this season he has been given the ball enough. I believe he's only 27, and he's only been a full-time starter for 4 seasons now. He has quite a few years left in him. He is an elite class running back, but unlike the others he just doesn't get any respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by lavarthebeast He's lost a bit of agility since the 2000 season. 4.2 yards per this year eh? That's actually pretty mediocre given the circumstances. Are you serious? Given the circumstances, that is pretty damn outstanding considering he's dodging defenders in the backfield every other time he carries the ball. That offensive line has had plenty of breakdowns when he gets his carries, and most of his carries where he got more than 7 yards a carry were done by him all by himself. I really can't believe how little respect this guy gets. Since being a starter, he hasn't finished a season with less than 1,300 yards. That is awesome, and not only shows his effectiveness but his durability. There are barely a handful of backs who can compare their stats to that and if that doesn't make him an elite RB, than some of you will never be satisfied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by lavarthebeast I would add James Stewart, Ahman Green, Thomas Jones, and possibly Portis to the better than Davis list as well. :alcoholic Lavar, lay off the booze... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lavarthebeast Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by rellim Some people can see things that are more relevant than statistics. When you get down to it, what has S. Davis' stats done for the redskins franchise. Nothing. One playoff appearance which was probably more so related to Brad Johnson. All Stephen Davis' are probably an average of 3 to 5 yards. He get's dumped the ball. It's not the same as when M. Faulk catches the ball IN STRIDE and makes moves to gain yardage after the catch. The other running backs you've mentioned are better recievers because the are way more agile, and can do something with the ball after they catch it. Whatch the games and you will see that Stephen Davis runs short curl and underneath patters, in many cases he catches the ball from a standstill position. If he's thrown the ball in the flat, or any other pattern in which he's really moving ..it's a crapshoot....whether or not he'll catch the ball....... Next, I've always maintained that Stephen Davis is not the kind of back that carries a team when the passing game is not working or when you really need tough yards. He fumbles the ball when you really need to score, or when your near the endzone, or you need to maintain possession. You cannot always measure a player's worth in stats. I know that when the ball is in Davis' hands I as a longtime redskins fan, don't feel that it is in safe hands. I as a fan hardly ever see S. Davis make the first would be tackler miss. I frequently see S. Davis run into the backs of linemen on 3rd and short yardage plays. I see Davis fumbling on or near the goaline, numerous times. I see S. Davis consistently being pushed backwards instead of forwards on running plays. I see a player without much heart, without much fight, who fumbles the ball in crucial situations, then has the nerve to make comments about wanting the ball more. He's an average running back, who will never take the skins to the next level. I see a RB who comes back from every offseason with nothing new added to his game, without any additional quickness, speed or strength, never trying to get better. I don't dislike him as a person, it's not his fault he's an OK RB, and he'll cough it up if you tap him the wrong way, but he is what he is...average. You can look at stats till your eyes turn red, but character is shown when times are hardest..and he's shown very little over the years..... Excellent post. S.Davis seems to have this cult following of some sort. I don't understand it because he's only had one very good year and the other two being average to slightly above avg. He was very explosive in 1999; if a lineman missed a tackle, anything could happen. After 99 though his yardage totals have been more of a product of his durability than anything, since both '00 and '01 are at 4.0 yards per. Nice but hardly worth a contract so much higher than the other rb's named in this thread. I don't think he'll be retained, and after he's gone, there will be little to no dropoff in the grand scheme when Betts or whoever replaces him. That's all there is left to say on this topic, so I'll give way to any homeristic Davis fans that want to have the last word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 I can only remember one game where Davis fumbling really hurt us, and that was the Chargers game in the opener last season. Just because he fumbled once last week doesn't mean he had a bad game. His ypc were pretty high and he had some pretty good runs. The team probably would've had more opportunities to score, and wouldn't have had so many three and outs if they'd given him the rock more. Man, we're going in circles here. I'd say his fumble against Dallas last year was pretty big. He holds on to the ball = first down, Redskins run out the clock. Instead, he fumbles, Cowboys win. And we've all talked about that fumble in 2000 against Arizona. Yes, an early game fumble CAN shift the focus on the ENTIRE game, much like it did last week. SF's offense was struggling, we looked fairly sharp from the get-go, then comes the fumble, and despite the solid start, we're in a 7-0 hole-- that's HUGE. I guess we have to keep saying it-- it's not that Davis fumbles A LOT, it's that his fumbles seem to come at devestating times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Some of the opinions I've read on Davis in this thread make me seriously question some of your guys football knowledge. The majority of people on this forum are generally pretty intelligent and have good thoughts to offer, but I'm sorry some of you are so way off on this topic it's a joke. I saw someone say Davis can't carry a team when the passing game isn't working. Oh really? What do you call last season, 8 of our last 11 ring a bell? That certainly wasn't the doing of Tony Banks! 37 carries in the last game ring a bell? Davis has shown he can carry a heavy load when given the chance. When he gets the ball 25 times in two games, there is something seriously wrong with the offense. Seems some people are very reluctant to call out Spurrier and instead want to put some blame on Davis for the offensive woes. Why I don't know, cause if Norv or Marty was giving Davis the ball 25 times in 2 games we would be calling for their heads. Spurrier is getting a free ride for whatever reason. When will Spurrier wake up and realize his best chance of winning this season is to feed Davis the ball? Hopefully sooner rather than later. 12 or 13 carries a game isn't enough for any RB to be effective. Here's a quote that just makes me laugh out loud, :laugh: "When you get down to it, what has S. Davis' stats done for the redskins franchise. Nothing. One playoff appearance which was probably more so related to Brad Johnson." Davis had 1405 yards that season, a team record, and 17 TD's!! Yeah that had nothing to do with Brad Johnson's success!! I'm done with this topic, quotes like that show me how much some of you guys really know. :doh: :gus: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 I must agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTerps2002 Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 I don't understand all the negativity towards Davis. He is a beast. If you are looking for things that the skins need to improve the tailback position should be on the bottom of the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 Originally posted by lavarthebeast Excellent post. S.Davis seems to have this cult following of some sort. I don't understand it because he's only had one very good year and the other two being average to slightly above avg. He was very explosive in 1999; if a lineman missed a tackle, anything could happen. After 99 though his yardage totals have been more of a product of his durability than anything, since both '00 and '01 are at 4.0 yards per. Nice but hardly worth a contract so much higher than the other rb's named in this thread. I don't think he'll be retained, and after he's gone, there will be little to no dropoff in the grand scheme when Betts or whoever replaces him. That's all there is left to say on this topic, so I'll give way to any homeristic Davis fans that want to have the last word. I really didn't want to say this, but you have no idea what you are talking about. Our views on Davis aren't homeristic, they are REALISTIC. If Davis becomes a free agent next year, watch how many teams will offer him big money. Why? Because he is an elite RB who is guaranteed to give your team a good running game if you give him the rock. 4.0 ypc is very good for a whole season, and there aren't that many backs around the league who get more than that. Last season Dillon, who you believe is a better back, averaged 3.9 yards per carry. George hasn't averaged 4.0 or higher since '99. Only 4 of Curtis Martin's last 7 seasons has he averaged more than 4.0 ypc. Davis, as a full time starter, has never averaged less than 4.0, your logic is flawed. I really can't believe you think Ladell Betts could even come close to replicating what Davis does. Betts couldn't even beat Kenny Watson, from the practice squad and our kick returner, as the BACKUP. Please... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gamebreaker Posted September 29, 2002 Share Posted September 29, 2002 What's this? Thomas Jones, the RB some believe is better than Davis, has 10 carries for 7 yards at halftime aganist the Giants. Oh yeah, he's an elite back! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RTerps2002 Posted September 30, 2002 Share Posted September 30, 2002 Steven Davis is top 5 by the end of the season... Especially once we start playing Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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