Pasquarelli: Things are so bleak, many feel Thursday's meeting is pointless...

[stevenaa]

It won't be a true have/have not situation because the NFL makes money everywhere. There will be 25 teams spending enough to be competitive all the time with the rest hoping to land the right combination of players to be successful here and there.

It is nothing but a good thing to be able to retain your own players and attach a sense of team back into the sport lost by cap rules that force that to die away. Ideally, the situation becomes a non-capped league, where the players are smart enough to say there ARE NO PROTECTIONS for teams keeping players from going into free agency. There's no limit of time. There's no tags. If a player isn't under contract, he's a free agent. Period.

Always.

Only.

This will assure people unhappy with their situation can hit the market allowing teams to improve through free agency, while at the same time allowing teams to identify their key group of guys, retain them, and start having teams identified again with players on the team.

I don't hate the cap, but, realize the downside of it has become greater than the downside of a non-capped league at this point.

We have a winner!!!! No more cap does not mean the team will field an all Pro Bowl Team. It means the team, and other teams, can field the SAME team from year to year because it will be able to retain the players its invested in developing. This will raise the level of play for those teams willing to keep thier players. This plays right into Gibbs hand. He, and his predecessor will be able to truly maintain a core group of players.

The teams that spend under the current CBA will be the same teams who will spend in an uncapped era. The teams who aren't even spending the full amount of available monies under the current cap rules will suffer, and rightfully so. They have been pocketing money given to them through revenue sharing, which should have gone directly to player salaries. They have been living on socialist hand outs, and now they are holding up a new CBA for a bigger hand out. Screw em. They are the ones who will suffer. I want to see players play out thier careers on one team. I want to see powerhouse dynasties. I want to see the outstanding play from teams that are able to keep themselves together for 4 or 5 years at a stretch.

Art also pointed out how to avoid a lockout. Unlimited free agency at the end of your contract. No minimum number of years before you can test the market. This will give the player the leverage that they wanted when this CBA was signed.

Either way, the teams that already spend will be the ones who will be successful under any circumstance.

[Larry Gude]

I guess we are just different. I love blowouts when the Redskins win 44-0 and a player scores 3 or 4 touchdowns. :laugh: I loved it when the Redskins beat Dallas 35-7. And the 14-13 game was exciting too. :laugh:

I love blowouts when it's a team like the Cowboys!

But, seriously, say we beat Dallas 44-00, twice a year for the next five years, at some point it's gonna lose some of the delicious joy of that second game this year, yes???

14-13 ws not a blowout so that doesn't count.

[skinstzar]

I guess we are just different. I love blowouts when the Redskins win 44-0 and a player scores 3 or 4 touchdowns. :laugh: I loved it when the Redskins beat Dallas 35-7. And the 14-13 game was exciting too. :laugh:

Me too, the 9ers game and the Cowboys game were the two best games of the year for me. Sure it might, might get boring a couple years down the road but I love watching the skins blow teams out. Plus there are 8 home games, I think all of the NFC East teams are going to be big players in uncapped years so that is 3 good home games, then we get a Denver, Oakland, Houston, Minnesota sprinkled in there from time to time and those should be good games. I'm warming to this uncapped stuff. The casual football fan might hate it but such is life.

[inmate running the asylum]

I love blowouts when it's a team like the Cowboys!

But, seriously, say we beat Dallas 44-00, twice a year for the next five years, at some point it's gonna lose some of the delicious joy of that second game this year, yes???

14-13 ws not a blowout so that doesn't count.

You're exagerating here. The Redskins aren't going to go 16-0 every year. Dallas has just about as much money as the Redskins and has always been competitive. And the Giants and Eagles will be too.

In fact since the Cardinals left the division, we are the guys that have been kicked to the curb the last 10 years or so. :doh:

Hey dont get me wrong. If the NFL settles the CBA tonight and we have the cap again and its raised, I'll be perfectly happy with the cap. But on the other hand if the low-income teams force the league to drop the cap in 2007, I say bring it on.

[Larry Gude]

You're exagerating here.

I can dream though.

Well, 16 teams are $10 mill or MORE under the cap and everyone says there are about 8 'have not's'. With no limits, man, what's gonna happen?

If they get snowballed under by money, it's gonna negatively affect the whole league, I think.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Maybe you dont remember. George Allen signed many free agents and Joe Gibbs first Super Bowl team was made up of over 50% free agents. Many low-priced free agents, but nevertheless free agents.

And I dont remember the Redskins winning the Super Bowl every year with Allen and Gibbs, in that there was plenty of competition from the Cowboys and others. But it was nice to have a playoff contending team you could count on every year.

I'll take that every time. It doesn't bother me in the least.

P.S. George Allen's team weren't built through no damn draft! He traded away just about all our top draft picks for players, he couldn't sign as free agents.

But I enjoyed those years immensely. He had colorful teams and you could count on a playoff contending team just about every year.

I dont where you come off with this idea that we would have "32 pro bowl players on the team" and "win the Super Bowl every year." There are a lot of other competitive rich team owners out there besides the friggin Arizona Cardinals and New Orleans Saints. :doh:

George Allen signed no free agents as there was no such thing. He made trade after trade after trade.

[Larry Gude]

Me too, the 9ers game and the Cowboys game were the two best games of the year for me. Sure it might, might get boring a couple years down the road but I love watching the skins blow teams out. Plus there are 8 home games, I think all of the NFC East teams are going to be big players in uncapped years so that is 3 good home games, then we get a Denver, Oakland, Houston, Minnesota sprinkled in there from time to time and those should be good games. I'm warming to this uncapped stuff. The casual football fan might hate it but such is life.

This says something dark and sinister about you guys!

The second Dallas game was ONLY so great because it was Dallas and they've owned us for years.

The games I love are the ones that go down to the wire, tension and stress the whole way. Losing some makes winning some worthwhile.

A question; If you are a video game player, do you set it on 'hard' or 'easy'?

[waterwagen]

This says something dark and sinister about you guys!

The second Dallas game was ONLY so great because it was Dallas and they've owned us for years.

The games I love are the ones that go down to the wire, tension and stress the whole way. Losing some makes winning some worthwhile.

I find it hard to believe you can be a real fan and want nailbiters every week. I want to kill the other team 56-0 every week!

[Larry Gude]

Care to elaborate?

No more cap does not mean the team will field an all Pro Bowl Team. It means the team, and other teams, can field the SAME team from year to year because it will be able to retain the players its invested in developing.

So, if Joe says "Dan, I gotta have that guy from that team and this one from that" and there is NO cap consideration, you're saying we won't get him, especially if it's one of the low end teams?

Just like baseball; Kansas City drafts a kid. He blossoms. He leaves for big bucks. Then, like Randy Johnson, he moves around from team to team, whoever needs a hot shot to replace a hurt guy or to improve somewhere.

This plays right into Gibbs hand. He, and his predecessor will be able to truly maintain a core group of players.

Do you mean successor or predecessor?

Screw em. They are the ones who will suffer. I want to see players play out thier careers on one team. I want to see powerhouse dynasties.

We already have that. You're describing college football...where no one graduates.

Art also pointed out how to avoid a lockout. Unlimited free agency at the end of your contract. No minimum number of years before you can test the market. This will give the player the leverage that they wanted when this CBA was signed.

Aren't you saying that teams will be able to keep themselves together AND players will be free-er to leave at the same time? Isn't that contradictory?

Either way, the teams that already spend will be the ones who will be successful under any circumstance

Like Houston and the Raiders? They're the two most over the cap this coming year.

[Funkyalligator]

Looks either way this plays out will work out for the Redskins....we have the best coaching staff in the NFL and that means a lot in this day and age.....Snyder/Gibbs/the skins aren't going to go out and sign unlimited number of players if there is no cap....They will find team players and a lot of the time that doesn't mean the individual player at a position but the best team player at a position......Gibbs isn't going to deal with a bunch of guys with huge egos.....he will keep all that in check and that is why I am damn glad that he is here...

[Jerrod6002]

So now the truth finally comes out after the media has unfairly continued to bash Dan Snyder as the main instigator holding up the agreement.

NOW WE SEE IT'S THE LOW-REVENUE TEAMS THAT ARE BLOCKING THE EXTENSION OF THE AGREEMENT! :cuss:

Yeah. They are probably all Democrats!!

:dallasuck :helmet:

[Larry Gude]

I find it hard to believe you can be a real fan and want nailbiters every week. I want to kill the other team 56-0 every week!

I'll bet you put your games on easy!

I wanna beat 'em bad but, again, the second Dallas game was euphoric. The only people who sat down at all durnig that game were Cowboy fans.

It would have been no where near the high without the lows! I wanna win every day in business, huge, boring. But we're talking sport.

[Larry Gude]

we have the best coaching staff in the NFL and that means a lot in this day and age

I agree but I think it means everything. As long as a team can only have 53 guys, there should always been enough talent to go around...if you got coaching.

Snyder/Gibbs/the skins aren't going to go out and sign unlimited number of players if there is no cap

I disagree. Coles, Moss, Portis, Thomas. Regardless of how one feels about Brunell, Joe paid WAY over market for him.

No, he won't just go buy a TO or some nightmare but I can't see them NOT going after every elite guy, that, as you say, is a team player.

Not all elite players are team players but there is an elite guy who is a team player at every position. If money is no concern...

he will keep all that in check and that is why I am damn glad that he is here

Well, that's unanimous!

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

If the Skins started winning 56-0 every week, Skins fans would be happy but the league would be dead in five to ten years. Do you really think CBS, FOX, NBC and ESPN are going to spend billions of dollars on a failed product? The NFL would become a regional game like baseball and this death spiral would get worse.

[inmate running the asylum]

George Allen signed no free agents as there was no such thing. He made trade after trade after trade.

No such thing? You dont know what the frig you're talking about. Sure Allen traded away most of our high draft choices' date=' but he also signed significant free agents every opportunity he got. (see below).

==============================================

Washington Times

Sat., April 15, 2000

By Dan Daly

Team Snyder must keep eye on top rivals in conference

Only three NFC teams have a realistic shot at the Super Bowl this season -- the Rams, the Bucs and the Redskins. The rest are merely pretenders. So all Dan Snyder, Norv Turner and Vinny Cerrato should be thinking about today as they prepare for the NFL Draft is: "How do we stack up against St. Louis and Tampa Bay?" Because you'd better believe St. Louis and Tampa Bay are thinking about the Redskins.

The Bucs got in the first Draft Week punch by trading two No. 1 picks to the Jets for Keyshawn Johnson. Just like that, they improved their offense 100 percent -- assuming, of course, they can get him the ball. The Tampa Bay attack last season was vintage '90s -- the 1890s -- but the acquisition of Keyshawn changes all that. Not only will he give Shaun King a big target to throw to, he'll open things up for Mike Alstott and Warrick Dunn by making it harder for defenses to sit on the Tampa Bay running game.

The Bucs are figuring, and rightly so, that all they need to do to win the conference is put up a few more points. In the NFC title game last year, they held the prolific Rams to 11 -- but, alas, scored just six themselves. Is Johnson the X-factor who will put them over the top? Could be.

St. Louis hasn't done anything nearly that dramatic -- yet. And the Rams probably won't unless someone makes them an offer they can't refuse for Trent Green. They took some hits in free agency, losing two offensive linemen, but they hung onto their best ones (Pro Bowl players Orlando Pace and Adam Timmerman). They also lost their coach, Dick Vermeil, to retirement, replacing him with offensive whiz-bang Mike Martz. Is this enough to bring them back to the pack? Possibly.

The Redskins, meanwhile, have been buying up players like mad -- Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George. Remember Audrey Hepburn standing in front of the store window in "Breakfast at Tiffany's"? Well, Snyder has been kinda like that. Washingtonians haven't seen such conspicuous consumption since '76, when the Redskins signed John Riggins, Calvin Hill and Jean Fugett after they were declared free agents.

[waterwagen]

I'll bet you put your games on easy!

I wanna beat 'em bad but, again, the second Dallas game was euphoric. The only people who sat down at all durnig that game were Cowboy fans.

It would have been no where near the high without the lows! I wanna win every day in business, huge, boring. But we're talking sport.

Actually, you're wrong. I play madden on the hardest levels.

I guess the question is, why root for the lows? You know they are going to happen anyway! You hope for the magical times when your team goes crazy and dominates. To me, what you're saying is "I'd choose not to win the superbowl every year, just to keep things interesting". Me, I want my team to be the best and to be recognized as such (all within a fair system of course, not a baseball style junk system). Other teams, sure, I want their games to be close to keep my interest. I don't need a close game to stay interested in what the Skins are doing.

[Peregrine]

The labor side doesnt really want to operate in a cap free environment. On paper it says "No spending limit!" But anyone who takes half a second to think about it knows it probobly means players make less money.

I completely agree with the NFLs stance. Upshaw was trying to bully the NFL to getting everything he wanted. I believe the players USED to make 46-47% of total gross revenue, so the owners offered 56.2%. Thatsa BIG increase. But that wasnt good enough for the NFLPA, they wanted more. Consider the fact that the more there is, the higher it raises the ceiling for the small market teams. Their salary cap increases too. And considering they never spend a lot of money, it just means it allows the higher teams to spend more while they dont. Obviously they dont like that. The NFLPA screwed themselves.

[waterwagen]

The labor side doesnt really want to operate in a cap free environment. On paper it says "No spending limit!" But anyone who takes half a second to think about it knows it probobly means players make less money.

I completely agree with the NFLs stance. Upshaw was trying to bully the NFL to getting everything he wanted. I believe the players USED to make 46-47% of total gross revenue, so the owners offered 56.2%. Thatsa BIG increase. But that wasnt good enough for the NFLPA, they wanted more. Consider the fact that the more there is, the higher it raises the ceiling for the small market teams. Their salary cap increases too. And considering they never spend a lot of money, it just means it allows the higher teams to spend more while they dont. Obviously they dont like that. The NFLPA screwed themselves.

I think Upshaw is starting to feel his oats. For so long the word has been that he and Tagliabue work hand in glove on these labor deals, he's feeling like he has to prove he's willing to fight for the players. I think this is more about personal pride than about what's good for the league, or the players.

[kingfish50]

Maybe you don't remember? Back in the Riggo days, a move like that was pretty rare. Most teams were built through the draft or as you say, trading picks for players, not free agency. You got to know your team over time. We're in a whole new world now where it takes 1/2 a season to know all the new faces.

The Redskins right now are becoming the Redskins of old; playing hard and coaching hard. How much of a challenge, or excitement, is there going to be if we have the best player in the league at every position?

If the Redskins become the Yankees, I'd rather play miniature golf. The value of a prize is in what you put into it to earn it.

Buying it doesn't thrill me.

I can't believe what your saying. Without a CBA, teams can hold on to thier players instead of having to let a bunch of them go every other year. Hell, I never buy jerseys with players names on them anymore because they will not be here that long. With the CBA, the teams turned into a revolving door. Teams cannot keep players any longer than 3 or 4 years on the average. When you draft a player, you better play him within 2 years or he's gone.

I personaly enjoy winning. I like to identify with my team. Sounds to me as if you enjoy watching mediocre football because since the cap was instituted, that's what the NFL has become.

Remember, when playing miniature golf on Sundays, don't be so competative. It's not fair for the smaller kids that you win all the time. Kind of makes you look like the New York Yankees of MLB.