Fans like homer :).

[redman]

Which goes back to what I tried to say earlier ... the key to all this, to me, is recognizing that there is a place for ALL kinds of coverage; be it generally negative media coverage, the relatively positive team coverage, the bloggers, one another in discussion forums like this one, etc. Each serve a purpose---to entertain and inform, to provide broad and varied viewpoints on all team-related matters, and to afford consumers with the ability to see more than one side of any issue, gather information as they will, and draw their own conclusions based on more than one bias.

For too long, we did not have that option. All we had access to was what "the media" elected to tell us, or not tell us. That, happily, is no longer the case and never will be again. The genie is officially out of the bottle.

One of the biggest benefits of that, I think, is that it will force what had become in my opinion a fairly fat and happy media machine, answerable to no one, into having to sharpen their craft again and become accountable. If a writer/produces/editor elects to spin a few quotes from a Gibbs press conference to fit an agenda now, while the uncut underlying footage that is available for free to any and all interested enough to take the time to listen to it makes it clear the context has been altered, they can expect to be called to the mat. That is a HUGE development that I think may be being a bit overlooked here.

I'd like to think the winners in all this are US. Not only are the traditional sources of information being forced to raise their games, which is to our benefit, but we as fans and consumers are also getting access to FAR more information than ever before, from all kinds or sources, upon which to draw our own conclusions.

And isn't that precisely what we have always wanted?

I don't disagree with what you said, but I'm a bit more concerned with Redskins "productions" rather than raw video put up on the website.

A Joe Gibbs press conference is a Joe Gibbs press conference. What we're discovering is that the old presumption by the media that the audience doesn't want to listen to a half hour of questions and answers to mine from it 30 seconds or two minutes worth of useful dialogue may apply to a Treasury Department press conference but it doesn't apply to sports fans with their coach and team.

What I'm more concerned about are Redskins announcers calling games on Red Zebra and shying away from any negatives about the team no matter how valid those negative issues may be. If that is avoided, then I'm happy. I'm certainly not one of those who's otherwise objecting on principle to the media getting shut out from breaking news. If the team can deliver the goods directly without the media there as a filter, then more power to the team. What I don't want is the "party line" all the time.

[Om]

But the Redskins don't pretend their radio coverage of games is anything but what it is, Redman. Do they? If one doesn't want to listen to their production, don't they have the option of the TV coverage, or NFL Radio coverage, or even coverage from the other team's broadcast network via the web? Maybe those options are not universally available for free yet, but they are becoming more accessible every day, not less.

Beyond that, I would agree that noboby wants "party line" all the time. Happily, the traditional media still seems more than happy to help us in that regard.

[Henry]

Redman, I don't disagree with your overall point, however, Sonny, Sam and Frank (now Larry) have historically been the biggest Redskin homers on the planet and people LOVE their game coverage. I know I do. I don't think it matters if WMAL, WTOP, WJFK or Red Zebra employ them. They are local guys rooting for the local team, as they always have been.

[redman]

Redman, I don't disagree with your overall point, however, Sonny, Sam and Frank (now Larry) have historically been the biggest Redskin homers on the planet and people LOVE their game coverage. I know I do. I don't think it matters if WMAL, WTOP, WJFK or Red Zebra employ them. They are local guys rooting for the local team, as they always have been.

I don't disagree with you, which is why I don't listen to them. I frankly get nothing from listening to them.

I think most teams out there put little effort into finding talented local broadcast teams. They seem to be satisified if their broadcasters meet either or both of the following criteria: 1) they're homers; or 2) they're former players. To me, that's a cop out.

I go back to the local announcers here in L.A. We're a bit spoiled because they are (were in the case of Chick Hearn) truly first class. Vin Scully is such a Dodger institution that I've read that the team actually uses him as an advisor on baseball matters, but that doesn't stop him from being critical when the team deserves it. That's all I ask for.

Is what I'm asking for an audio version of Sally Jenkins or Lenny P? Of course not. But I just don't want my broadcasters to be above leveling criticism, even harsh criticism at my team when it is warranted.

I'll add another point. This is where Snyder's reputation hurts him. He's been brash and aggressive. I think he's misunderstood, but he's also been obnoxious. Remember Cerrato's favorite story about Snyder taking over the team, when he stepped into the locker room and announced to the players something to the effect of, "I am an a-hole"? Cerrato thought it was great because it reminded him of Eddie Debartolo.

When somone like Snyder does this, people are immediately suspicious that instead of doing something to truly provide benefit to the fans he's simply trying to insulate himself from criticism, some of which may be justified. Would there be even half of the criticism about the creation of something like Red Zebra if it was the Giants and the Mara family doing this? I doubt it.

[ScoringSkins]

There's no doubt that Snyder and the media aren't the best of friends, to put it midly. The DC media do seem to jump all over him these days, but when you compare him to what he does now and the sort of exposure he gets as a result of his actions to when he first came in for the first couple of seasons, he's totally changed and learned, most of the time, the hard way from these early experioences. He now behaves like an NFL owner. The fact that Gregg Williams has signed an extension to stay for one more year at least speak volumes about how Snyder runs his team. In the past a co-ordinator couldn't get out of DC quick enough!

Having the Redskins TV and the 'official' multimedia really adds to the content that is available to us fans. It's up to the individual fan to decide what they would like to form their opinions on by accessing the relevant sources and deciding on their individual credability on a case by case basis. The fact that we at this point in time, can watch a press conference from start to finish, listen to the questions asked from various members of the local media and decide on the content of the answers is what is really great because if it was in the paper, on TV or on radio, we would get the sound bites that would support the tone of the story being portrayed by that particular media outlet. I have seen some evidence of players and coaches comments being taken out of context in a few online newspaper articles, having watched the same press conference, knowing how out of context the comments were taken and therefore being able to form an opinion of the article. That's not a bad thing in my opinion.

[Om]

To all of you finding this discussion through redskins.com who are not already members here ... thanks for dropping in, and please feel free to join the conversation.

Most of the talk in this thread has been from members alreaqdy familiar with the topic at hand, due to this board becoming the "official" Redskins message board last August. It's been a subject of some debate.

We'd love to also hear from some of you who are NOT intimately familiar with our circumstance and could perhaps bring some fresh new "outside" perspective to the table.

[Gusthecat]

I don't care whether the media jumps all over Snyder, but Gibbs deserves much more respect than he has received from Post writers this year. Post coverage has been more distracting to this great season than Billy Packer announcing Maryland basketballs only national championship game.

[remlik]

JUST WATCHED THE CLIP OF SAM AND LAVAR,WHAT A LOVE FEST.i WAS WAITING FOR THEM TO HUG.

[remlik]

Do We Really Need Lavar?? Don't Remember Seeing Him Play In The Seahawk Game.

[NavyDave]

Nice

Good to see an article that basically says exactly how we feel and think

[HapHaszard]

Redman, I don't disagree with your overall point, however, Sonny, Sam and Frank (now Larry) have historically been the biggest Redskin homers on the planet and people LOVE their game coverage. I know I do. I don't think it matters if WMAL, WTOP, WJFK or Red Zebra employ them. They are local guys rooting for the local team, as they always have been.

I have picked up Sonny and Sam and (Larry) broadcasting the games all over the east coast on something called the Redskins network, which I allways assumed to be property of the Redskins. I used to spend a lot of time traveling from one sporting event to another as part of my job and would hunt the dial for them. A lot of local radio stations thru out the South would carry the games with them, and when one would fade I would find another station. Over the last few years I did notice that there were less and less stations carrying the Redskins.

[ScoringSkins]

I have picked up Sonny and Sam and (Larry) broadcasting the games all over the east coast on something called the Redskins network, which I allways assumed to be property of the Redskins. I used to spend a lot of time traveling from one sporting event to another as part of my job and would hunt the dial for them. A lot of local radio stations thru out the South would carry the games with them, and when one would fade I would find another station. Over the last few years I did notice that there were less and less stations carrying the Redskins.

I think this boils down to the 'exclusive rights' licenses the Redskins allow radio broadcasters to carry the game and a combination of making these games available on 'Field Pass'. Being over here in the UK, in seasons past I could only listen to the other teams broadcasters on Field Pass, as the Redskins did not allow anyone other WJFK (and their partners) to broadcast the games. Essentially this season is my first season listening to the Redskins games with Sonny, Sam and Larry. Out of the three, I do like Sonny's commentary the most. What I like is they way he descrribes the upcoming play (adds his opinion to what play they should run as well!:laugh: ) and if a play did not work, then why and who else was open in the passing game. I like the joking rapport Sonny and Sam have with each other. They are total homers though, but that's not a bad thing. Most of the other teams in the league are anyway (I know I had to suffer their commentary for a while! ). They rarley crticise the Redskins, I suspect that is in part due to Gibbs being at the helm. It would have been interesting to hear what they had to say about Norv, Marty and Spurrier!

[HapHaszard]

A little more on Red Zebra from the news

Confirming week-old reports, Redskins owner Daniel Snyder yesterday announced the purchase of three local radio stations that will carry the team's games starting next season.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/20/AR2006012001620.html

[ScoringSkins]

Looks like that this purchase will signal the end of game calls being made by WJFK, unless Snyder needs them to help extend the range of these new stations. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds for the Redskins organisation.

[Blade]

I think this boils down to the 'exclusive rights' licenses the Redskins allow radio broadcasters to carry the game and a combination of making these games available on 'Field Pass'. Being over here in the UK, in seasons past I could only listen to the other teams broadcasters on Field Pass, as the Redskins did not allow anyone other WJFK (and their partners) to broadcast the games. Essentially this season is my first season listening to the Redskins games with Sonny, Sam and Larry. Out of the three, I do like Sonny's commentary the most. What I like is they way he descrribes the upcoming play (adds his opinion to what play they should run as well!:laugh: ) and if a play did not work, then why and who else was open in the passing game. I like the joking rapport Sonny and Sam have with each other. They are total homers though, but that's not a bad thing. Most of the other teams in the league are anyway (I know I had to suffer their commentary for a while! ). They rarley crticise the Redskins, I suspect that is in part due to Gibbs being at the helm. It would have been interesting to hear what they had to say about Norv, Marty and Spurrier!

I've listened to Sonny and Sam ever since I can remember... they've ALWAYS been homers, but also been very good at helping the fans see the game through thier eyes. They've never been overly harsh on any coach, even during the Norv and SOS years. That is just them, and either you love it or you listen to the TV boobs. What you hear now is very comparable to what you heard during the lowest years.

Also, it WASNT the team preventing web-casts of the games until this year, it was the mother corporation of WJFK (clearchannel, i think). They had a corporate policy against.

Now that we have a team-owned radio network, I believe we will be seeing a HUGE expansion of team coverage on the air in the DC area. I would bet that much of the .comTV audio/video will be simulcast on the redskins radio network. Looks like it will only get better for us fans in getting redskins news and info.

[iheartskins]

From this week's Economist...

Old media

King content

Jan 19th 2006

From The Economist print edition

Don't write off Hollywood and the big media groups just yet

“PAIN is temporary, film is forever.” That hopeful thought, which found its way into the original script of Peter Jackson's recent re-make of “King Kong”, might be seized upon by today's beleaguered entertainment industry. Media companies are suffering intense pain—and it is starting to seem worryingly permanent. In America shares of “old” media firms such as News Corporation, Comcast and other giants of television, film, radio and print, have fallen 25% behind the S&P 500 in the past two years, despite some heroic financial results. Meanwhile, the market value of Google, which made its debut on the stockmarket in 2004, is now equal to the combined worth of Walt Disney, News Corporation and Viacom, three beasts of the old media jungle. One investor, who recently moved two-thirds of his $1 billion fund out of American media and into emerging-market companies, moans that “the market thinks something's going to get them, whether it's piracy, personal video recorders, or Google.”

Desperate to rescue its share price, Viacom broke itself in two on January 3rd. Time Warner, the biggest media group of all, is under attack from Carl Icahn, a corporate predator perfectly adapted to sniff out the weak and vulnerable. The big groups have seen their newspapers and magazines lose readers and advertising to the internet; their music businesses suffer piracy and falling sales; and someone else's video games captivate new generations of consumers. Now come fears about film and TV, the bedrock of their business.

Hollywood took 7% less at the box office in 2005 than in 2004 and growth in sales of DVDs has slowed. Internet video threatens the satellite and cable systems of companies such as News Corporation and Time Warner. Dozens of advertisers are shifting budgets from television to such places as the internet and billboards. Brand-owners hate it that people are using digital video recorders to avoid their pitches. And if media firms move on to the internet themselves, they risk losing their films and television programmes to pirates.

[...]

[HapHaszard]

The internet is already making inroads into the telephone industry. Most television programs I TIVO and watch later so that I can bypass the commercials. With high speed internet access becoming more prevelent, (its only months away here) I can see a time when you hook your tv up to the computer and watch commercial free content when you want, not having to record it beforehand. I quit reading the newspaper years ago, and get my news from the internet. The only thing right now holding me back from eliminating Bellsouth is the dial up I am forced to use. Its a far cry from the days when we had 3 channels coming in with ghost pictures and Centreville, Virginia was concidered to be so far out in the country that everyone thought we all wore bib overhauls. I actually remember when we got flush toilets, and the Redskins were broadcast in black and white with one camera.

The last twenty years have had so many changes in technology that amaze me. In the early 80's I was playing around at work with a digital camera that was so large and heavy that it took a hand truck to move it, the internet was an experimental idea called DARPAnet. We put men on the moon with computers that personal computer users would laugh at today. If I remembe correctly NASA had two 7090 computers hooked in Tandem to get to the moon, that was a total of 128K of memory. Not 128 meg but Kilobytes.

Can you imagine what the next 20 years will bring? I can't even guess.