Gitmo Gulag? Serious bad guys at Guantanamo would love to kill you. Have a nice day.

[nelms]

Can you define "American rights"? How do they differ from "human" rights? Would you edit the Declaration of Independance to read "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all American men are created equal, that they endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights..."

I don't think the right and the left are too far apart concerning the prisoners at Guantanamo. Everyone wants to see some sort of due process, but while the right is content to leave that completely in the hands of the administration, with no transparency at all, the left doesn't trust this administration to act within the bounds of treaties we've signed and generally American ideals of equal treatment, innocent until proven guilty, etc.

If you trust this government after all the crap they've pulled, I think that's your problem.

Due process? Transparency? WTF?

The entire WWII generation is turning over in their graves. The ones that are still alive are probably puking. These are not AMERICAN CITIZENS. They are TERRORISTS, intent on destroying all of us. They don't deserve d!ck. All they deserve is food and water to sustain them and a floor to sleep on. That's it.

[webnarc]

My question always is, "Why does everyone on the left want to give them American rights?"

Because I see a correlation between the treatment of these detainees and the treatment of American contractors.

[nelms]

Because I see a correlation between the treatment of these detainees and the treatment of American contractors.

Bullsh!t. They're chopping off the heads of live people. They are sick ****s that don't need any motivation in their perverted ways.

[wskin44]

All that is moot however, because the Declaration of Independance does not grant American citizens rights, the Constitution does.

Sarge, you have it backwards. The Constitution does NOT grant our rights. It simply acknowledges that citizens have rights which can't be taken away by any Constitution, Law or government. The Constitution is a document of the people of this country that grants certain rights to the Government. It is NOT a document of the Government which grants rights to people. A huge difference.

[Ignatius J.]

and therein lies the problem with this whole conservative movement. well stated wskin44.

[Sarge]

Sarge, you have it backwards. The Constitution does NOT grant our rights. It simply acknowledges that citizens have rights which can't be taken away by any Constitution, Law or government. The Constitution is a document of the people of this country that grants certain rights to the Government. It is NOT a document of the Government which grants rights to people. A huge difference.

Poorly worded on my part, but as you stated, it acknowledges citizens (meaning American citizens) have those rights, not some POS from a far away land that was shooting at our troops

[wskin44]

Poorly worded on my part, but as you stated, it acknowledges citizens (meaning American citizens) have those rights, not some POS from a far away land that was shooting at our troops

I agree with the main point that you were making. I think that prisoners do have some rights based on international treaties but it has nothing to do with the rights of an American citizen.

[Sarge]

I agree with the main point that you were making. I think that prisoners do have some rights based on international treaties but it has nothing to do with the rights of an American citizen.

And that's my point. Why do some feel that we have to give them "American" rights?

Not that the Supreme Court hasn't already handed down precident on this issue from back in WWII

[wskin44]

I think the real question is are we abusing prisoner rights that are guaranteed by international treaty.

[DieselPwr44]

Thank God some of you weren't in power during World War II. Some of you would've had Patton and MacArthur court marshalled and hung........

[MaddogCT]

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way."

:logo:

[nelms]

You want me on that wall, you need me on that wall.

[Eagles_Legendz]

Bullsh!t. They're chopping off the heads of live people. They are sick ****s that don't need any motivation in their perverted ways.

:applause: Well said.

Forgive me for not seeing the correlation between beheading American contractors on video, and detaining prisoners at Guantanamo.

[Prosperity]

Poorly worded on my part, but as you stated, it acknowledges citizens (meaning American citizens) have those rights, not some POS from a far away land that was shooting at our troops

Wrong, it takes power away from government, the government can not make a law infringing speech, it doesn't say only citizens have that right, it limits what the government can do. The same goes with every other right. It isn't given to citizens it is a limitation of the power of government.

[webnarc]

:applause: Well said.

Forgive me for not seeing the correlation between beheading American contractors on video, and detaining prisoners at Guantanamo.

It's okay, you are forgiven.

[chomerics]

"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way."

And Col. Jessup ended up being court marshaled, bad example.

[nelms]

And Col. Jessup ended up being court marshaled, bad example.

IIRC, the movie ended before Jessup was brought to trial. But, don't let the facts stand in the way. You never seem to on any topic anyway.

[redman]

Fine, Sarge. Let's charge, try, and convict these guys. If we don't do that, we're worse than they are. If you put me in a cage on an indefinate basis, I'll try to do a whole lot worse than throw feces at you.

The point is that these guys were trying to do worse before they were locked up.

Get out of your Mayberry mentality. There's a whole other ugly world out there.

[Sarge]

Such nice "innocents" we're letting go:rolleyes:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-1841118,00.html

Prisoner sent back by US is held over Russian raid

From Jeremy Page in Moscow

RUSSIAN police have arrested a former Guantanamo Bay prisoner on suspicion of taking part in this month’s bloody attack on the southern Russian spa town of Nalchik.

Rasul Kudayev, who was returned to Russia in February last year, was detained on Sunday at his home in Nalchik, according to his mother and his lawyer.

Interfax said that he was arrested after police questioned participants in the October 13 raid on Nalchik, the capital of the republic of Kabardino-Balkariya, in which at least 128 people were killed. It said that Mr Kudayev, 24, was suspected of taking part in an attack on a traffic police post in the village of Khasanye, near Nalchik.

His mother, Fatima, denied that her son had been involved with the militants who carried out the attack. She said: “He’s been at home the whole time since he was released. We never go to see people and nobody comes to see us. He is very sick.”

Clive Stafford Smith, a lawyer for Mr Kudayev, said that the allegations were based on a groundless tip-off. He added: “Some secret informant allegedly called to say he had a stash of weapons at his house. The search revealed this to be false, but they still took him in.”

Mr Stafford Smith, legal director of Reprieve, a British charity, is helping the seven Russian Guantanamo prisoners to sue the US Government over their treatment.

If Mr Kudayev’s alleged role in the attacks is not proven, his arrest will be seen as an example of how the Russian authorities’ heavy-handed tactics are alienating people across the North Caucasus, analysts said. And if it is proven, it will be an embarrassment for Russian authorities as they pushed hard for his return from Guantanamo Bay. Mr Kudayev was one of eight Russian citizens arrested by US troops as “enemy combatants” in Afghanistan in 2001 and taken to Camp X-Ray at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

Russian prosecutors visited in 2002 and demanded that the so-called “Russian Talibs” be extradited. In February last year, seven were handed back to Russia, where they were charged with illegal crossing of a state border, mercenary activities and participation in a criminal gang. The charges were dropped and the men released in June last year.

Channel One, the state-controlled television station, reported that they had been sold to the US by the Taleban. Mr Kudayev said in the report that he had studied Islam in Saudi Arabia before joining the Taleban. He complained about his treatment at Guantanamo. “They were told not to touch us below the waist and not to take our Korans,” he said. “But they searched us very rudely. When they did not find anything, I spat in their faces. They took me to the cell, sprayed me with gas and beat me.”