Every Skins Fan Needs Tivo - Opinions?

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

The only technologies that really matter to me (and that were invented in my lifetime) are the PC, the Internet and Tivo.

Tivo beats the VCR hands down. Comparing the two is ridiculous, like comparing the Skins to the 49ers on Saturday. Trust me: if you think Tivo is "kinda like a digital VCR", you're kinda on the wrong track. You don't use Tivo like a VCR.

Here are some of the ways Tivo will change your life:

1. You stop paying attention to when anything on TV is being broadcast. Instead of organizing your time around the TV schedule, you just run your schedule and watch TV when you feel like it. Maybe once a week or so, you spend a few minutes to flip through the on-screen program menu and select things you want recorded in the week ahead. For stuff you watch all the time, you get a "season ticket" and select it once -- every time it's on (forever, until you change the setting), it gets recorded. The end result is that you hardly ever miss anything you want to see, and every time you turn on the TV, lots of stuff you really want to watch is waiting for you.

2. While watching TV, TV ceases to become your master -- thanks to the pause button and the ability to rewind a few seconds (or more). Phone rings -- no problem, pause the TV. Wife talks to you -- no problem. Friend makes a dopey comment during critical dialogue -- no problem. Bathroom & meal breaks -- no problem. The feature actually makes TV more of a communal experience, because you can stop the TV anytime you want -- to make comments, or talk about anything. Normal TV is like a pod person experience: everyone sits and watches and listens obediently. Now the TV's no longer in charge.

3. Skip commercials. This is amazingly liberating. You just fast-forward past the commercials to the next segment of the program. If you see something you like (each commercial flies by in a few seconds), you can always stop and watch it, so you don't have to miss you favorite jokey commercials. But for everthing else, it's :finger:

4. Watch stuff you'd never get to see otherwise. I was never the kind of guy who would check programming guides, so I tended to miss 99% of the interesting stuff that I didn't already know was going to be on TV. With Tivo, it's incredibly easy to find the interesting stuff you might want to watch. For example, I get Turner Classic Movies, HBO, Sundance and IFC. Once a week or two, I'll flip through the upcoming movies on these channels (takes only a few minutes) and choose 5 - 10 really great movies that I never would have seen otherwise. Some of this stuff is at 4 a.m. Even the stuff in primetime I probably would have missed. You can even make "wish lists" based on actors, directors and movie titles, so you can catch every Scorsese film ever broadcast.

5. Make wife happy. Not to be underestimated. Now you have your own "entertainment consultant" who's always got some great tips just when you need it. Sure, it's no big deal to plan outtings and weekend nights, but it's the relentless weekday nights that kill you. Now you can delight your wife with brilliant entertainment options always at the ready, instead of, say, "ALF".

6. Watch sports like a pro! Sure, we've all been impressed by John Madden and the telestrator replays -- now you can be smart, too! Review each play as many times as you like, in slow motion. Check out all the details -- the blown blocks, the QB footwork, the pass patterns, everything! Your sports IQ will rise with each viewing. Also, you can still watch live sports with Tivo -- you don't have to wait until the game is fully recorded to view it. But live TV gets better when you can pause the game, do your own replays, and skip all the commercials.

Final suggestion: The best Tivo to get is the combined DirecTV / Tivo receiver -- unless you don't have and don't want DirecTV. The DirecTV version records the original digital satellite signal, which gives great quality. The regular Tivo digitizes your regular analog signal (cable TV etc.), which reduces the quality a bit (unless you choose the highest quality setting, which reduces your storage space).

Also, Microsoft has a competitor to Tivo called UltimateTV, offering similar features. Don't worry about the competition -- either version is great. As a Tivo bigot, I'd advise you to get Tivo, but if you get nervous disobeying Bill Gates, then go with your conscience.

[matty dread]

As soon as I move into a place where I can have direct tv, tivo won't be far behind.

[The Sisko]

I recently got my Direct TV back....TiVo won't be far behind (tho tha missus don't kno it yet).

[Golgo-13]

"If you're afraid of disobeying Bill Gates." :laugh: :laugh:

Good one!!

[Golgo-13]

How much does it cost? Is there a monthly fee, or do you just pay once for the box?

[Carlito Sway]

Guys, it's around $200 for the cheapest model (meaning the smallest hard drive is installed) and there is a $12 monthly fee *or* a one time lifetime subscription fee. When I bought mine to get all of last season's games, I wasn't sure if there would be brand shake-out (ie replay TV becomes the standard and all of a sudden I own a betamax) or if the company would go under, and my "lifetime subscription" would be useless. Well, both worries were unfounded.

Everyone who owns TiVo speaks of it glowingly. The craziest thing about it is that it is so cheap and yet has taken a while to get momentum going. The reason for that is that you will almost never see an ad for TiVo, and it does so much so well so effortlessly that it's nearly impossible to explain it all at once.

Yes, it's nice to record any program at any time and be able to digitally zip through it at a speed you choose. Yes, it's nice to be able to pick old movies and documentaries and the like that would never warrant commiting to VHS nor staying up for. And yes, it's nice to be able to watch as many replays of a 4th and 1 bomb in Osaka Japan while :high: and beating your chest.

But most of all, TiVo makes TV a viable medium. We've all read about how the brain waves of a human watching TV are equal to that of a human in REM sleep. The fact is that TV is both a nuisance and an active detriment to attention span when punctuated with blaring commercials every twelve minutes. As a a result, even the great shows are undercut by the mediium, and they are rendered OK shows. BUT when you have a TiVo, you simpoy never watch commercials. EVER. OK, it takes a while to learn how to fully finesse watching a full three hour sporting event and not watching one commercial, and still being live n direct for the ninth inning, but after a month it becomes second nature. And the peace of mind, guys, wow. It's actually enjoyable to watch TV; you actually get something from it.

I cannot stress enough that TiVo is just short of a godsend. The reason few are actually in the fold is because it is the harbinger of death to the networks; you don't obey their schedule; you don't watch their commercials; you don't play by the rules.

Plus, when you really come to adore your cute l'il Tivo fending off the evil empire of commercialism, you can trick it out by installing a bigger drive yourself (for about 150 bucks more, for example, you can make your Tivo's capacity jump from 20 hours to 80) and can learn about trick codes and all kind of geek hacks as well. For y'all TiVoers out there, check out www.avsforum.com and then click the TiVo link. Pretty helpful.

Don't sleep on this, folks. It's like unplugging from the Matrix.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by escholz

How much does it cost? Is there a monthly fee, or do you just pay once for the box?

The cost of the unit varies by the unit type, storage space and special sales. I've seen DirecTV / Tivo integrated units on sale for about $99 (probably bundled with a DirecTV subscription), but I think list is closer to $399. Circuit City is a popular dealer, but there are many others.

As for the Tivo subscription fee, you have a choice. You pay either $9.99 a month, or you can buy a "lifetime" subscription for $199. The lifetime subscription stays with the box (keyed to the serial number), so don't plan on giving away your box in two years and buying some new version, unless you don't mind paying a new subscription fee. (The subcription fee pays for the programming guides that tell you what's on TV on any channel for the next two weeks, and manages your recording "to do" and "wish" lists.)

The subscription fee sounds expensive, but it's not when you get used to Tivo and appreciate it. Trust me, this thing actually changes your life. Probably the lowest risk approach is buying Tivo on a $99 sale with a return guarantee. Pay the first month at $9.99. If you don't like it, return it. If you like it, buy the lifetime subscription.

By the way, I realize I'm shilling for Tivo, but I have no relationship with the company and have no monetary interest in this. Just a happy customer!

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

A few more things:

1. Tivo is NOT hard. People think that Tivo must be harder than a VCR, and since they don't program their VCRs, they don't want to mess with Tivo. Let me say that I've programmed a VCR to record a program maybe 5 - 10 times EVER. The VCRs in my house have been blinking 12:00 for five years. I hate VCRs. Tivo is different. You spend maybe five minutes and select the shows you always want to watch, get a "season ticket", and you're done -- forever. Every time those shows come on, they're recorded. If all you ever did with Tivo was get a few season tickets, you'd think it was worth twice its price. But of course there's so much more, as described in the posts above.

2. When you've got unused storage space, Tivo will use the space with "Tivo suggestions" based on your viewing habits (Tivo records similar types of programs). These selections won't overwrite what you asked to be recorded, and will be deleted as needed to get the stuff you want. So it's a pretty good freebie -- you get some interesting stuff that you might not have known about otherwise. (Not all suggestions are on the mark, but you can delete those, or turn off the feature if you don't like it.)

3. Tivo can help you explain football to non-football people. My wife had never really watched a football game before three years ago. Two years ago she couldn't tell you the difference between a linebacker and a tight end. Now, thanks to Tivo (which lets you pause plays and run plays in slow motion, which helps in explaining things), she can tell you offensive formations, WR patterns and so on. Without Tivo, explaining this stuff is too confusing, with so much happening in so short a time.

OK, done now.

[Larry]

I like the idea, but gotta point out a few things:

Tivo (the company, not the box) seems to think it's OK for them to take some money in excahnge for re-programming your box so the company's sho gets recorded. (They only did it once, and decided they didn't like the reaction they got. But the fact that they did it once says something about the company's ethics. And the ability to do it again is still there).

They've also admitted that the company is keeping a record of every show you record with the box, which ones get watched (as opposed to being recorded over without watching), etc. They say they haven't done anything with the information, but I keep putting the word "yet" at the end of that.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by Larry

Tivo (the company, not the box) seems to think it's OK for them to take some money in excahnge for re-programming your box so the company's sho gets recorded. (They only did it once, and decided they didn't like the reaction they got. But the fact that they did it once says something about the company's ethics. And the ability to do it again is still there).

They've also admitted that the company is keeping a record of every show you record with the box, which ones get watched (as opposed to being recorded over without watching), etc. They say they haven't done anything with the information, but I keep putting the word "yet" at the end of that.

This is like inspecting the paint job on the life boats when you're trying to get off the Titanic.

There are countless ways we can lose our privacy in theory and in practice. Personally, I couldn't give a damn whether Tivo (the company) knows what I watch. Unless you're one of about 500 really famous people, nobody else cares, either.

Trust me, you won't care about this "theoretical" danger once you are liberated from the "clear and present" danger of being subjected to a daily relentless assault of television commercials and rigid TV watching schedules.

[laurent]

I'm not a big fan of the Tivo. The Replay TV is a much better product and has a much wider feature set. For examply with the 4000 model you can send recorded shows to friends etc.

If you're in the market for PVR then by all means get the ReplayTV 4000 or 4500 (this is the latest model I believe).

Oh here's a link breaking down the 4500 models features:

http://www.sonicblue.com/video/replaytv/replaytv_4000_features.asp

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by laurent

I'm not a big fan of the Tivo. The Replay TV is a much better product and has a much wider feature set. For examply with the 4000 model you can send recorded shows to friends etc.

If you're in the market for PVR then by all means get the ReplayTV 4000 or 4500 (this is the latest model I believe).

I'm not going to put down any of these products. Tivo is great for me, but UltimateTV and Replay TV are worthy of consideration. Just don't get bogged down for months with the choice -- they are all good.

I will say that Replay TV's features appeal to real power users. I saw that "sending shows via the Internet" feature, and I think very few people will use the feature, due to bandwidth and complexity issues. Replay TV offers a fine product, but it's not the logical "first choice" for anyone who's not a tech geek to begin with.

This Tivo/PVR market is (surprisingly) struggling with growth, apparently because people don't understand the products and think they're just geek VCRs. Tivo seems to me to be the easiest product to start with, and has the largest and most fanatical following. I've had two Tivos for two years and have never doubted my decision, even with UltimateTV and Replay TV on the market.

[OrangeSkin]

I still don't get it. I'd rather watch games unfold in real time than watch the tape of what happened 10 minutes ago. I'm still in the stone age. I think I'll pass on TiVo.

[laurent]

There's really nothing complex about sending and receiving shows from friends. If you already have a lan at home all you need to do is hook it up to the network, select the friend you would like to send the show to and you're done.

There's nothing special that needs to be done on the receiving end either.

The Replay TV also lends itself rather nicely to archiving recorded games on DVD-R or CD-R. You can easily retrieve recorded shows from your home PC and then proceed to make copis for friends etc.

[laurent]

Orange,

You can still watch TV in real time, you don't have to watch it time delayed. The beauty about PVRs (Personal Video Recorders) are things such as being able to go back to replay scenes, zoom in to a get close up etc. All the while the action is recorded so you don't miss what's going on.

This is espescially cool when they go over to commercials and you're still wondering just what exactly happened on a particular play etc.

Not trying to sell you on those things, but once you've played around with it for a while you'll have a hard time going back to regular tv...

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by laurent

There's really nothing complex about sending and receiving shows from friends. If you already have a lan at home all you need to do is hook it up to the network, select the friend you would like to send the show to and you're done.

There's nothing special that needs to be done on the receiving end either.

The Replay TV also lends itself rather nicely to archiving recorded games on DVD-R or CD-R. You can easily retrieve recorded shows from your home PC and then proceed to make copis for friends etc.

Well, laurent, you just proved my point.

The guy with a home LAN and DVD-R is a power user, representing less than 10% of the market. For them, Replay TV may be perfect.

I've got more technology than anyone I know -- LAN, DVD-R, about 8 computers. Tivo's just fine for me, though I recognize the advantages of Replay TV. They're both great -- Tivo's just better for more people. Had the current generation of Replay TV been available when I purchased Tivo, I might have gotten Replay TV, but I don't regret my decision in the slightest.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by laurent

once you've played around with it for a while you'll have a hard time going back to regular tv...

I agree strongly.

I'm stunned when I watch TV elsewhere now. It's so . . . primitive. Everybody has to watch the clock because XYZ show is coming on in 7 minutes, the rest of the world be damned. You miss a line of dialogue and it's . . . gone forever. Commercials come on and . . . people just take it. You want to make a comment during a show, and people look at you like you're interrupting Jesus.

It's like that classic Orwellian "1984" commercial from Apple, introducing the Macintosh. Everyone sits silently before the programming sent down from Big Brother . . . until the runner destroys the telescreen with the hammer.

Folks, it's your brain. You still own it. Don't be a pod.

[laurent]

Somebody with a home lan is hardly a power user. Families with broadband access sharing their connections via simple HUBs are quickly becoming the norm. This has nothing to do with being a power user.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by laurent

Somebody with a home lan is hardly a power user. Families with broadband access sharing their connections via simple HUBs are quickly becoming the norm. This has nothing to do with being a power user.

OK, laurent: simple challenge. If you can provide an authoritative source saying that more than 10% of American households have broadband access *and* a LAN with multiple computers, I'll send you $25.

In my post, I said such power users were 10% of the population (or less). Of course I was also referring to DVD-R, but I'm willing to make my bet even without the DVD-R factor.

The "norm" you are referring to is the norm among power users. That's true, but power users are still a small minority of the population.

[Hoosierskin]

At this point, I would rather use the money on Redskin vs. Packer tickets. I am looking forward to the re-match on the frozen tundra! When you have kids and a wife, the money just doesn't grow on trees. Seeing a live sporting event does it for me! If I win the lottery in the future, I may give TIVO a chance. But, spending time with my little ones provides more than enough entertainment and fun for me. But, thanks for all the great info, ASF.

[70Chip]

Tivo's great but still has a long way to go for sports. The video compression still doesn't handle fast action well except at the very highest levels. The schedule data and automated recording program leaves a lot to be desired for sports -- for example, the NFL Sunday Ticket listings aren't in the system, and for some reason Saturday's preseason game still isn't in the system.

I love mine -- but don't buy it just for sports.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by 70Chip

Tivo's great but still has a long way to go for sports. The video compression still doesn't handle fast action well except at the very highest levels. The schedule data and automated recording program leaves a lot to be desired for sports -- for example, the NFL Sunday Ticket listings aren't in the system, and for some reason Saturday's preseason game still isn't in the system.

I love mine -- but don't buy it just for sports.

70Chip, you need to lasso yourself a DirecTV / Tivo integrated receiver. Those boys record the original digital satellite signal, so there's no recompression of the video. What comes out of DirecTivo integrated receiver is the pure good stuff, the exact same image you see on live DirecTV broadcasts.

As for the NFL Sunday Ticket, that's a DirecTV issue, not a Tivo issue. For some reason DirecTV thinks it's a state secret as to which channels will broadcast which games. It's the DirecTV menu that's late in being updated, and Tivo can't magically guess channel information that isn't provided by DirecTV.

(For the uninitiated, DirecTV doesn't update their onscreen menu to reflect NFL games until the last 24 hours before the game. It's an annoyance when you'd like to set Tivo to record games well in advance.)

I think you can get around the problem by getting the channel info from DirecTV's web site, and then programming your recording choices manually using time, channel and duration.

[MikeB]

Dudes, no offense but Tivo IS JUST LIKE A GLORIFIED VCR.

Modern VCR's that can be had for less than $100 can AUTOMATICALLY skip the commercials for you -- you don't even have to fast forward over them.

What is the big deal about setting up your recordings ahead of time -- you have to do that anyway with a VCR, and any VCR that has VCR+ (something that came out like 5 years ago) allows you to just punch the show number in and it will record it automatically for you -- you don't have to program the time or anything. In addition, you can tell the VCR to keep recording this item indefinately.

The only real advantages TIVO has is that you can record multiple shows simultaneously (I can do that with the 2 VCR's I already own, but never have the need to) and the ability to pause live, non recorded shows. It's just not worth the 200$ plus monthly fees for that...

[The Sisko]

I too have used VCR's to record shows for years. However, it's the functionality of TiVo and the image quality of DVD that has forced VCR prices into the $50 range.

Many of the features of TiVo could easily be incorporated into VCR's but never will because it's a dead technology. The return on investment just isn't there for the manufacturers so they won't bother with putting any effort into VCR technology.

TiVo and Replay TV were designed specifically to address problems that people have had with VCR's over the years, ie difficulty programming them, the linear nature of tape, poor image quality etc. TiVo and Replay TV are much much better than VCR's and as time goes on that will become even more true.

I just can't wait to get my hot little hands on a DirecTiVo unit. Anybody got any ideas for the best ones ? Approximate prices ? I saw the $99 deal but you have to purchase DirecTV service from that particular company then install it yourself or pay an installer.

Any info. on this would be greatly appreciated.