Atlanta Skins Fan Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 As posted several times earlier, I have been opposed to keeping 4 QBs. But there's one good argument I can see for keeping 4 QBs, and that's if all 4 QBs play extremely well in the pre-season, and if Wuerffel gets the starting job and has a banner season. In that situation, Wuerffel is our franchise QB, with 7 - 8 good seasons left in him. Matthews or Sage is the primary backup for 3 - 4 years (the other being third string). And we trade Ramsey next offseason for (probably) a #2 pick. If Wuerffel puts up big numbers this year, it's a waste to keep Ramsey. With Wuerffel having a long career left in him, Ramsey won't have a chance to be a starter before his contract runs out. (He'd probably leave the team if not a starter by the end of the contract.) Meanwhile, we could use the #2 pick in the interim on a player who can actually start for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Given that I think we're going to be keeping 6 WR's, I think we simply can't afford the roster spots to have 4 QB's. Remember, unlike WR's or any other position for that matter, QB's are not used anywhere else on the team, other than possibly as holders on FG's/PAT's. They can't even be used as other types of special teamers. That's a heck of a lot of scarce ground lying fallow for us. Keep in mind also what we're talking about doing elsewhere on the team. We're considering keeping a fairly large number of DB's, between Bailey, Smoot, Green, Shade, Terrell, Bauman, Ohalete, and Lott (I seem to recall there's one more good prospect). Also, we're talking about using a lot of guys part-time on the D-line and rotating them, and Jackson's standout performance did nothing to reduce our interest in doing that. I just don't see where we can afford to have 3 QB's on our roster doing nothing. However, I think that between Sage, Wuerrfel and Matthews, one of those guys will likely (no guarantees of course) be able to survive waivers and be moved onto our practice squad. Matthews might balk at that, but I'd remind you that the Bears released him and resigned him mid-season last year, around October I believe), and no one grabbed him (I actually posted a thread suggesting that we sign him at the time). He also got through waivers to us this offseason. Similarly, I don't see a lot of league-wide interest in Wuerffel or Sage, especially Wuerffel. Ironically, the only one of our QB's who would be snatched up right away would be Ramsey, the guy who doesn't figure to play for us this year. :laugh: Anyway, I just don't think we want to - or need to - keep 4 WR's on the active roster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 i actually want 7 wrs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I don't know how much we'd get for Ramsey, but I don't think he'll be going anywhere soon. SS has advertised that Ramsey is on-board, and Sage-Waffle-Matthews are battling out for the other 2 spots. I don't think that's how it's really going down. Here is my take on all this. If Matthews looks sharp against Carolina's first team and further on in the preseason, he gets the # 1 spot. Still, he's injury-prone and neither Sage nor Ramses is ready this year to command this offense. Ergo, Spurrier will not cut the Waffle. The real battle is between Sage and Ramsey. Yes, Ramsey stays on no matter what, but whether or not we keep Sage as #4 depends on whether he looks more promising than Ramsey. If there are serious question marks about Ramsey, SS may hang on to Sage for another year as insurance in case the Pharoah doesn't work out. As I stated in an earlier thread, Sage is really a de facto rookie. You can't count a season being pi$sed on by Schot Jr. for anything. If Ramses looks like he has the potential to be head pharoah, then the Israelite will get thrown across the Red (or in this case Burgundy) sea and look elsewhere for a promised land, because what's the point of having 2 protoges to groom. Waffle and Stain are here to stay. The question is, do we need a Wiseman when we have a Pharoah...:fortune: :fortune: :fortune: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 How about this scenario... We hire Tonya Harding to crack Ramsey in the shins, allowing the Skins to put Ramsey on the shelf for 2002, where he can catch up with learning the offense and carrying Shane/Sage/Danny on the active roster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NVskinsfan Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Yomar How about this scenario... We hire Tonya Harding to crack Ramsey in the shins, allowing the Skins to put Ramsey on the shelf for 2002, where he can catch up with learning the offense and carrying Shane/Sage/Danny on the active roster He will learn the offense this year anyway! he will be holding the clipboard and hopefully he will come out firing IN 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shamaran Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Sage seems to have the tools to be a QB in the NFL. Shane and Danny know SS's system. Ramsey was a wierd pick by Dano. So, one of the four gets an injury (real or fabricated) the others make the roster. If, however, Marty wants to part with another pick for Sage, say a notch higher than he used last year (#3), he's out of here. I like Sage's grit; he seems to fit his name. I look for good things from him from somewhere. He is at a distinct disadvantage here. Did anyone see Shane giving him the cold shoulder while Shane seemed to be asking the upside down #9 something? A picture that was worth many words.:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 What do you say we wait another Week or 20 before we annoint Danny the "Franschise?" Mmmkay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckydevil Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I think Synder was thinking Marino Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Wait a minute, let me get this straight. Two weeks into camp, a camp Ramsey hasn't even attended due to a contract holdout, and one preseason game in which the QB's played well.... and we're ready to trade away our 1st round pick and QB of the future. Careful here guys..... let's not let our frustation with the holdout become disorientation. I think what we've learned from the 1st preseason game is that we have more than one QB who can effectively run the offense. And...we haven't even seen Matthews play. Ramsey's holdout should not immediately bring calls for his trade or release. He's our QB of the future, because he has all the tools needed to be successful. Intelligent, picks up things quickly, and has a very accurate and live arm. What's wrong with keeping all four at the expense of one other position. That way, we have the year to evaluate all 4 Qb's. Plus... Matthew's contract is for one year, and if he is not starting at the end of the year than he'll look elsewhere for work. At that point, a depth chart of Wueffrel/Sage/Ramsey won't look that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Cskin Wait a minute, let me get this straight. Two weeks into camp, a camp Ramsey hasn't even attended due to a contract holdout, and one preseason game in which the QB's played well.... and we're ready to trade away our 1st round pick and QB of the future. Careful here guys..... let's not let our frustation with the holdout become disorientation. I think what we've learned from the 1st preseason game is that we have more than one QB who can effectively run the offense. And...we haven't even seen Matthews play. Ramsey's holdout should not immediately bring calls for his trade or release. He's our QB of the future, because he has all the tools needed to be successful. Intelligent, picks up things quickly, and has a very accurate and live arm. What's wrong with keeping all four at the expense of one other position. That way, we have the year to evaluate all 4 Qb's. Hey Cskin, please re-read my post. The entire point of the post is an argument *for* keeping all 4 QBs this year.Also, I don't have anything against Ramsey. I'm just being pragmatic that *if* Wuerffel starts and has a banner year, Wuerffel becomes our QB of the present and future, since he's only 28. In that scenario, keeping Ramsey is wasteful, when a trade next offseason could bring value (such as a #2 pick) we can use. Otherwise (again, if Wuerffel performs well), Ramsey might go his entire 5-year contract without ever starting, then leave as a free agent. Here's my original post again: there's one good argument I can see for keeping 4 QBs, and that's if all 4 QBs play extremely well in the pre-season, and if Wuerffel gets the starting job and has a banner season. In that situation, Wuerffel is our franchise QB, with 7 - 8 good seasons left in him. Matthews or Sage is the primary backup for 3 - 4 years (the other being third string). And we trade Ramsey next offseason for (probably) a #2 pick. If Wuerffel puts up big numbers this year, it's a waste to keep Ramsey. With Wuerffel having a long career left in him, Ramsey won't have a chance to be a starter before his contract runs out. (He'd probably leave the team if not a starter by the end of the contract.) Meanwhile, we could use the #2 pick in the interim on a player who can actually start for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Let's wait and see how Matthews looks. Much to the chagrin of many on this board, myself included, I see Sage as the odd man out right now. Judging by Sat., Weurfful is not going anywhere, he operates the offense too well to let him go. Matthews will probably be comparable, if not better. And I can't see SS giving up on Ramsey that quickly, out of arogance alone. Although I won't be surprised if we keep 4 QBS, I wouldn't bet on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matty dread Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I think it's very unlikely Spurrier keeps 4 QB's. If Matthews and Wuerffel both have strong showings in these preseason games, there's no reason to keep Sage around. It would be more beneficial to keep a 7th WR on the roster instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W&M Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 We bought Ramsey for a modest price. We have a good prospect for cheap, and it's certaintly worth our time to find his value. We can't turn away from that plan for at least 2-3 years. If he turns out to be great, we're set for 12-15 years. As for Matthews, we have to keep him, because the pre-season just wont' give us enough of a test to let us know if the other inexperienced QB's are ready. The worst thing that can happens is that we get all high on Danny and Sage, cut Matthews, and then find out that Danny and Sage urinate down their leg when faced with stunts, blitzs, zone blitzs, etc. So no matter what, this year we have to keep Matthews as an insurance policy. In mind, Weurffel's performance convinces me he can possibly be next Jeff Rutlege, Jeff Hostetler, Jason Garrett, Greg Kubiack. If he keeps it up, and demonstrates that he can replicate the performance against NFL starters, then I will be comfortable having him as a very serviceable, career back-up. And best of all, it seems that Weurffel's only value as a QB is in Spurrier's system ... cause everyone else thinks he sucks. So we can keep him for the next 10 years and never worry about having him signed away. So that leaves us with Sage. If Weurfell continues to play well, then I'd only keep 4 QB's if sage improves to the point where he also looks like a legit prospect. In that case, keeping Sage is a one year investment until next year when Matthews will most likely be gone. In that case, you develop both Sage and Ramsey, and let the best man win, and send the other packing via trade for picks (hopefully like Arron Brooks, Matt Hassleback, or Mark Burnell, or Jay Schroeder). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atlanta Skins Fan Posted August 5, 2002 Author Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by W&M In mind, Weurffel's performance convinces me he can possibly be next Jeff Rutlege, Jeff Hostetler, Jason Garrett, Greg Kubiack. If he keeps it up, and demonstrates that he can replicate the performance against NFL starters, then I will be comfortable having him as a very serviceable, career back-up. Why are you ruling out the possibility that Wuerffel could be our franchise QB now and in the future? I'm not saying he will be, but based on his first performance and his history with Spurrier, I do think it's a credible possibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by W&M And best of all, it seems that Weurffel's only value as a QB is in Spurrier's system ... cause everyone else thinks he sucks. So we can keep him for the next 10 years and never worry about having him signed away. I agree with this and was thinking the same thing. Wuerrfel may be the only QB that we have about whom that can be said. Sage and Ramsey have potential as prospects, and Matthews has already shown he can succeed for at least short periods of time as a starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yomar Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Its true that right now Wuerfell would only be valuable to us. But if Spurrier achieves the type of success we all hope he does, the NFL will soon be littered with proteges and Wuerfell would find himself in high demand...this is all assuming that DW ends up being as good as he was Saturday night and that Spurrier is a success, but you know what they say about the NFL, copycat league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 ASF, My post wasn't necessarily pointed at you. Others were saying things about trading him. The point I'm making that it is way to early to be talking about who's being cut....traded...released. Let's get these games under our belt and then revisit the QB's play. I for one prefer to have Wueffrel be the starter. I just don't want both of the Florida boys on the roster at the expense of Sage. All in all, the more young talented QB's on the roster the better. Plus, in the end, we'll either realize that a cannon arm isn't necessary to execute this offense.... or... wow....look how good it is with one. You don't cut Ramsey's arm until ...... A)he gets the ability to showcase his talent in training camp B)gets comfortable in the offense C)gets the opportunity to run the offense in a game and with the 1st team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurfinSkinFan Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Steve is not going to keep four QBs. He sees it as a waste ... when he can keep a WR, RB, or even a extra DB to play for him now. Steve is about now ... if Shane plays to his potential, I have to think Sage is gone. Unless Danny falls on his face in game three, he is a lock to at least share starting duties. Steve will want two starting QBs ... he will need two to exchange them if one has a bad couple of series in a game ... so to me it is possible we might find Mr. Ramesy as trade bait soon if things go Shane's way this Saturday. If Ramesy can't play if called on this year ... he better have a UHaul ready to go somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorEye Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 Why would we waste a roster spot on a 4th QB? If Shane plays well enough to hold a roster spot as well as Danny - you have Shane and Danny who have several years left in them and either Sage or Ramsey to develop and I think we know which one of those two we'd rather keep. Keeping a 4th QB either to develop or trade bait just doesn't make sense especially when we need to carry a lot of receivers. If SOS had a chance to get 'sure thing' QB in a draft, I'm sure he would and we'd have this entire debate all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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