Skinsinparadise

I used to be an apologist for Ron from three perspectives

A.  Dan Snyder was a horrible boss and EVERYONE working for him deserves to be graded on a curve.  I still feel that way.

B.  Lets give him time to see how his plan unfolds

C.  I thought he was building up to a big move (s) in year #4.

But he lost me the last off season.  He clearly wasn't building up to anything.  He's just a dude who runs at this speed and there is nothing he's ramping up towards.  The combination of watching his drafts not aging well combined with him having in my view a crap 2023 off season combined with a weird arrogance about him and combined with a weird fascination of trying to defend Dan Snyder -- he lost me.

If I had to conjure up what really pissed me off more than anything it would be his passionate defense of Dan Snyder.  If he wanted to claim to the bitter end that Dan was great to him and gave him everything he wanted than cool I'll take him at his word that in effect it was his own incompetence that made this team a loser not so much Dan. 

Becoming a Dan apologist coupled with his lack of urgency the previous off season coupled with his strange arrogance -- he lost me. 

I know Jason Wright seems to have many more haters here than Ron.  But I LOVE the fact that Jason kicked at Dan as he was leaving and clearly Dan didn't dig him for it including not even mentioning Jason in his exit press release.  Compare that to Ron who was kissing Dan's butt right to the bitter end.  I respect Jason over Ron on this front.

Branding part of it but Id guess lack of star power is part of it.  RG3 for example sold a ton of jerseys.  With the early hype, Chase seemed to have a lot of jersey sales judging by training camp.

But especally under Bruce-Ron there was so little star talent.  If Daniels has some early success I bet he sells.

Was somewhat pessimistic before last season, predicted 8-9 but clearly it went even worse than that.  I thought the last off season was a borderline disaster.

Feel almost the opposite extreme this off season.  I think they pulled 6 starters in that draft with the other three likely rotational guys and at least one rotational guy from the UDFAs.

Also it was a poorly coached team last year, i expect the opposite.

Feels 9-8, 10-7.  All depending on Daniels of course.  

Only weaknesses on this team now IMO are the left side of the O line and Outside corner are question marks.  But as pessimistic as I was last time about the O line I feel better about it this time albiet they need another off season to fix it.    

I think the only thing I am more pessimistic on than the typical optimist about this team is a Forbes rebound.  I've heard enogh hints from Keim that the brass both the past and I gather the current one (even though he hasn't flat out said it) don't think his issues are mostly about scheme but are more centered on him as a player.  So I get the vibe that this regime might not see Forbes as an easy fix.  Plus is that dude built to play press man in this scheme?  This isn't Del Rio's zone scheme.  Wouldn't shock me if something wild happens like the UDFA from Colorado State beats him for the job. 

Not saying am out on Forbes but he feels like a wildcard.  Conversely, Quan Martin who really came on towards the end of the season last year I think will thrive.  Overall though that 2023 draft looks like it might age just like it feels today as a disaster. 

But overall I am uber impressed with then job Peters already did.  I said on another thread, with the power of hindsight in the sea of bad personnel people we've had, Ron IMO was the worst of the bunch.  Yes worse that Cerrato and Bruce and Shanny.   Peters has to had to do a lot of work to fix this.   Also Peters seems so self aware -- something that all the previous GMs weren't.  We were used to delusional and incompetent GMs.  And that feels like its finally changed and big time.

An underrrated thing Peters accomplished is really adding some depth on defense.  Rivera didn't seem to care if name that extremeskins member was a backup on his teams.  He was OK with just having guys as backups.    And what was frustrating about it is he could have had so many dudes on the cheap on that front with decent reps but he didn't seem to give a rats behind about spending a million or two on a guy like Risner or a slew of guys like that who were available during his reign.  Then when he would have his customarily late season collapses he would blame injuries.

In short, I think the GM is light years better and the coaching likely will be light years better too.  I am expecting they will be considered a real contender team as soon as 2025.  But I do think they will surprise this year.  Some breaks and they can make the playoffs.

Got zero angst about this recent draft.  The previous draft I had plenty of woulda shoulda stuff. 

15 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

If we accidentally made that field goal against the Jets last year - a game I turned off early because I was disgusted we were going to win - we would be welcoming JJ McCarthy right now. It seems like Peters' board was probably QB1) Jayden, QB2) Caleb, QB3) JJ.

 

I'm getting fired up but still can't help but feel nobody has really pressed into his durability beyond hand-waving about big hits. I'd be curious for Keim to speak to a sports science expert or sports doctor and ask some of those questions. Cooley felt that his build was not a concern and that his frame could accommodate 5-10 pounds of additional muscle over time no problem. It seems hard to believe looking at how skinny he is, but maybe it's the truth. I just wish we could hear from a true expert in the field.

 

Again, if Jayden looked 10 pounds beefier and were anywhere close to as fast as he is now, he'd be a Chicago Bear and we'd be welcoming Caleb to DC right now. I'm not as concerned with his throws between the hashes or sack rate. I was never worried about his work ethic. 

As for the work ethic stuff I know we are accustomed to some stories about dudes who don't have it.  But for me its not about having it or not having it -- for me its reading about many of the greats in all sports that their work ethic is through the roof.  

Brady for example didn't just have a good work ethic but it was legendary-insane.  Too early to know on Jayden but some good early indications that he might be in that insane work ethic category that some of the greats have.

My concern is also durability.  I'll say though this isn't a dumb organization anymore, so I'd guess 100% they have a plan to beef him up.  Heck Jayden himself said in an interview he has a plan working with a nutrionist

7 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

Keim put up a chonky new article on ESPN. Its a long read but it is packed w/ info we did not know b4. I recomend reading it if you got the time. On top of recounting events there are also things in there that will give you the warm fuzzies we all so desperately seek.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40057487/why-commanders-drafted-jayden-daniels-no-2-overall

 

 

In terms of stuff that stood out to me:

 

-At the scouting combine Peters told a small group of higher ups that it would take "a lot" for it not to be JD. This group included Quinn and Kliff. Looks like the guys that are putting together out O have had a pretty good inkling for quite some time.

-Peters solidified the selection w/ the org in the draft war room b4 they made the pick. Really kept it close to the vest and till the last minute outside of a select few.

-Peters said he never considered trading back, only got one offer.

-After the top 30 visit, JD was telling people he was "Quinn's Guy". Good early indication that Coach n GM are on the same page. Always good.

-JD's demeanor completely changes when he gets to talk about football. Gets excited and locked in.

-They really liked the work ethic stuff. Dragging teamates to 5 am workouts, making LSU change their rules to give him more access

-Peters liked JDs use of VR. Another massive sign that it will continue.

-They love his processing ability and the environment he worked in going against the SEC

-During the private plane ride home after his presser JD spent an hour pretending to go thru plays from our playbook. Real Russell WIlson lunging in the aisle vibes lol.

 

 

Some key parts that I either liked or found interesting

He told them, according to one person in the room, they are getting a "young man who loves football" and would help them "change this franchise forever." Then, according to the source, Peters finally said: "We're going with Jayden." The room erupted with cheers, clapping and high-fives.

"It was like a room of joy," said a person who was there. "It put everybody at ease."

...He liked Michigan quarterback J.J. McCarthy more than presumed second choice Drake Maye, the North Carolina star QB, according to multiple sources. But Daniels -- due in part to his experience, polish, resilience and game-changing ability -- became the organization's top pick early in their evaluations and never lost ground as Peters & Co. finished out the process.

While every No. 2 pick is of huge importance, this pick could alter the trajectory of a franchise trying to establish a new identity under new owner Josh Harris -- who purchased the team last summer -- new coach Dan Quinn and first-time GM Peters. Washington is attempting to get beyond more than two decades of futility under previous owner Dan Snyder, and solving its decades-long quarterback quest with a long-term answer at the position would go a long way toward accomplishing that goal. Washington has started 33 quarterbacks since last winning the Super Bowl after the 1991 season; the Commanders started eight in the past four years; no quarterback has served as the No. 1 guy for more than three years since Mark Rypien from 1989-93.

They needed to make sure they had the right guy. In the end, their process led them back to where they began: Daniels.

"We knew it was Jayden for a while," Peters said. "It would have taken a lot for it to not be Jayden. The whole building I would say was unanimous on that one. It's easy to see why."

...DANIELS HAD ADVOCATES outside of Washington as well. Former Arizona State coach Herm Edwards, who recruited Daniels and coached him for three years, told Peters that Daniels "was a man; don't let his youth fool you." One source said San Francisco receiver Brandon Aiyuk, a close friend of Daniels', sang his pal's praises to Peters. And San Francisco coach Kyle Shanahan, with whom Peters worked for seven years, also gave Daniels a glowing review.

From that Florida State film on, nothing changed Washington's opinion of Daniels. The Commanders spoke to people from Arizona State, where Daniels played three years, and LSU. One source checked out his high school transcripts. They asked about his character.

Peters also liked that Daniels had the passcode changed at an LSU facility so he could enter after hours for more work. He also organized 5 a.m. workouts with his receivers; Washington's officials were impressed that he could cajole his teammates to attend at that hour. That, one source said, resonated as much as anything with Peters.

The boxes kept getting checked in Daniels' favor.

But the interest still went back to his on-field exploits. Like Peters, Quinn said Washington liked the level of competition Daniels played in the SEC, and the sophistication of the defenses he faced.

"They had looks and different things that Jayden has been able to really process things quickly," Quinn, a former defensive coordinator, said. "He has a real decision-making process that's fast."

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40057487/why-commanders-drafted-jayden-daniels-no-2-overall

4 minutes ago, FootballZombie said:

 

-During the private plane ride home after his presser JD spent an hour pretending to go thru plays from our playbook. Real Russell WIlson lunging in the aisle vibes lol.

 

 

Keim mentioned this on his podcast too.

I mentioned John Beck in an interview on 106.7, mentioned the day after the draft Jayden asked him to get together so they can work

The work ethic stuff feels real

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

This fanbase is allergic to stacking talent.

Let alone at the D line.  Eagles have dominated this division as for consistency in the last two decades plus.  A hallmark of it has been stacking talent on the D line.  Injuries happens.  But more on point players leave and players tend to play better when rotated.

I watched that segment with Rivera doubling down on Chase.

As to a series of reasons why Ron sucked is he doesn't think he has anything to learn from past mistakes.  Sheehan played back Ron's ending press conference when he got canned with Carolina.  Ron came off with no regrets.  He did everything right and came off defiant.

Night and day difference with Quinn who is obsessed with doing it better this time and is already working around the clock.

Dan was beyond awful.  But Ron was a nightmare as to his level of incompetency and lack of urgency.  I didn't realize it until his last off season.

Multiple reporters have said last year, Ron just came off checked out and it filtered to the team.

But we are lucky it bottomed thanks to that.  #2 pick.  Hopefully franchise QB, etc. 

We had a terrible owner an awful human being, terrible GM albiet nice guy terrible coach albiet nice guy

This is a night and day new beginning on all fronts.

interesting I recall Daniels said in an interview his dad is his biggest critic including telling him at times he sucks when he's off

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I do. This is the year of Buechele.

Over Vaderson?

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

The sneaky thing about Cerrato was that I knew coming in, he'd be a disaster. If Clark and Policy weren't interested in taking him w/them to Cleveland after screwing up the Niners in the later nineties he had to be pretty bad and stories circulated back then of how bad, but what's funny is that beyond the toady nonsense with Snyder, Cerrato's draft CV is vastly better than Casserly's. You compare Casserly '89-'99, and Cerrato '00-to whenever he was ejected ('09 I think?), he was just a D to D+ GM where Casserly was an emphatic F, probably worse than an F. 

 

On Ron, as awful as it is to say, considering things you mentioned during this last season, I wonder if he was just flat out demoralized, fighting cancer, working for Snyder, things not working out, clearly on a "you've got 1 year" and knowing there was no chance. I wonder if he just kind of just checked out. He was aware that the only way he'd be back was if Sam Howell was Joe Burrow and the rest of the team stayed healthy and over performed, and neither were likely. I wonder if he just quit in general.

Otoh, all his drafts sucked. But yeah, he clearly seemed over it completely this season. It's also worth noting, and I think I mentioned it when he was hired, over here. If you looked at his Carolina CV, it was basically trash. What you saw was pretty obvious, he lucked into the 1.01 in an elite no doubt about QB class (Newton) in his first year. He produced three quality seasons, and one Cam in God Mode Season, and otherwise the Panethers underperformed, and then fell apart as Cam's body fell apart. Whatever happened with the Panthers was largely a product of Cam Newton (and that stud LB didn't hurt either). They were sub .500 in 5 of his 8 years there, never as horrible as we were in '23, but generally speaking, they were largely meh. '11, '12, '14, '16, '18 and '19 were all disappointing. So when things went sideways it was pretty obvious, always, what happened, and that, not coincidentally was part of the reason I was so surprised when he ignored QB in '20 and '21. It was so so so obvious that Cam was everything when he was in Carolina, and just to make do with a 10th to 15th percentile QB room '20-'23 was so utterly asinine it was mind boggling. Then again I guess he did try to solve it with former never was types like Wentz, but he should have known after he was quickly cashiered out of Philly and Indy, that that plan was hopeless. 

 

5am doesn't really move the needle too much though, Joe was that, apparently McVay was that, and I'm that (basically 515-545 wake up time the past 15 years for my work)...but I do like his energy, fire, and the reality that he does seem to max teams out, other than '20 with Atlanta when Ryan was semi-cooked. 

Ron's one big accomplishment was FA in his first year.  Knocked it out of the park.  But Kyle Smith was heavy involved in that.  When Kyle left, Ron struggled after that.  FA sucked the draft sucked. His trades sucked.

He was as delusional as Bruce and Vinny and also even oddly arrogant like them at times too.  But a much nicer and classier guy.   Maybe Dan's delusion-arrogance filters to his employees.

He basicaly left the organization as a classier one than what he inherited but with a worse roster than he inherited.

Just hearing how this new regime is a breath of fresh air brings it home.     I don't fault Ron for not working around the clock because of his health issues so I get that.  But otherwise this comes off as a regime that is much more humble and self aware while being much more hardworking and competent.  But will see.

4 hours ago, Chump Bailey said:

I do feel some vindication

 

"The truth is, the Commanders, the two quarterbacks that they had in consideration at No. 2 were Jayden Daniels and J.J. McCarthy,"

I'd feel vindication on your end as to how Peters felt.

But clearly the Giants, Patriots felt Maye > McCarthy

I don't get the sense that Peters thought it was close between Daniels and McCarthy.  A bunch of narratives (including from Keim) that Peters was smitten with Daniels from the jump.  But clearly they weren't as high on Maye as some other teams.

Digesting a ton of narratives-leaks.  This much seems clear.

A.  Scouts-coaches were much higher on Daniels than the mock drafters.  Some mock drafters were big on Daniels but they seem to think its more even between Daniels and Maye.  Whereas scouts-coaches felt Daniels was a clear peg better

B.    Scouts-coaches were higher on Maye than they were on McCarthy with some outlier exceptions.  This team being one of those outlier exceptions.

But will see what happens.  I was higher on Maye than most.  Also higher on Daniels than most.  Will see how it plays out, I don't think anyone is vindicated until it plays out.

The only vindication for some right now is there were people on the QB thread convinced that Peters loved Maye and any move towards a different QB had to be fueled by Quinn and others.  Clearly that was not the case.

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

maybe it was you, or maybe someone posted him, and it was exciting, getting him as a UDFA feels like we got basically a pair of extra 6th or 7th rounders (along with the other DB we signed who wasn't quite at his level of promise). Very exciting.

 

On Quinn, I'm getting more excited over time, he's younger than I realized, I thought he was more 60ish, but instead he's my older brothers age, which I like, otoh, it looks like in '19 they were top 11-13 in defense, and in '20 they fell to around 23rd or 22nd and much worse in total yards given up. It's rather odd. How much of the change was bringing in a mega superstar in Michah Parsons, but regardless, a top 3ish defense after he arrived. I don't know what to think of it, the dallas d was good in '19, objectively below average to horrible in '20, and very good in '21 (the odd thing is there were a lot more good defenses in '19 than in '21, not sure why). 

 

Anyway, I remain a skeptic of the quick turn around idea. I like that we added an elite DT prospect, I don't think there's much argument against the idea that we got a top 20-25 level talent, basically an extra mid to later round 1st round talent in the DT, we probably added 2 defensive players via the draft that will have some degree of immediate impact as rotational support to the secondary and the DL, but with no edge talent really, the LB position got a legit talent, but not a lot behind him via FA, I just tend to think this build out will take 2 or 3 years, and that's fine. I don't expect the D to get back to where it was in '20-'22, I suspect it will be bottom third in '24. That's fine w/me though, long term that would serve us better than a quick jump into the top 10-15. 

 

But I am reasonably excited that we did a nice job plugging holes, and adding some nice long term talent infusions to transition to a new era. Really promising. 

 

But next year? I still expect us to be bottom 10, probably bottom 5-8, and again, that's fine, we need at least one more really crappy year before attaining mediocrity I'd like to think, and then hopefully advancing to excellent by '26 or '27. Suits me fine and so far so good. One of the things worth noting, also, is there wont be an effort to position for Caleb Williams, Drake Maye, and Jayden etc next year, the QB class still has a couple of first rounders, but even the top guys are a tier below the top 3 to 4 from this year, so that, combined w/whats happened with various teams, suggests to me that only a few might bottom out: Carolina will again, Tennessee can't help, some injuries in the wrong places could do it to Oakland, NYG will probably struggle unless Nickels shows out with Nabers in house, Denver could be a mess and New England, will be a mess, but when I look around the league, not a lot of teams are likely to be god awful: New England, Tennessee, Oakland and Denver, Us, (the whole NFC and AFC South problem is they get to play eachother so probably nobody other than Tennessee and Carolina will totally suck), Arizona is going to bounce back, not sure what the rams will do with an aging QB but they have the potential to collapse with that problem. But really, I do put us in that clump of the worst 7 or 8 teams, we aren't the worst in that pile, but we'll probably be in the middle, with the potential to pick between as high as 3rd or 4th, and as low as 7th to 10th or 11th. 

Yeah I watched the corner and liked him, has a shot to be a starter.

Yeah I love Quinn's energy and drive.  I heard he's coming into work at 5 am everyday just about and is obssessed with doing it better this time. 

Rivera on contrary if you listened to his post firing presser felt that he had nothing to learn from his Carolina stint and seem to coach this team with a lack of urgency.

Feels night and day this new regime from the last.

Not to mention with the benefit of hindsight, we've had some bad FO's but I think Rivera ended up the worst of the bad lot.  Classy guy so tough to link with Cerrato and Bruce who both lacked class.  But if you look at the body of their work.  Cerrato >> Rivera.  Bruce >> Rivera.  Rivera was a train wreck as to personnel. 

36 minutes ago, The Consigliere said:

But note when the defensive players were drafted, it was less valuable capital:

 

Offense: 2nd pick, 53rd pick, 67th pick, 100th pick (4 of our top 6 picks)

Defense: 36th pick, 50th pick, 139th, 161st, 222nd 

 

If you actually measure the picks by draft capital value, I wouldn't be surprised if the offense has the bulk of the value. Lets be straight, 139th, 161st, and 22nd's are dart throws from 15-20 feet away, 2nd, 53rd, and 67th? Those are dart throws from 5-7 feet away. 

 

To me, they played the board, people are insisting it was a defense heavy draft, but really it was only so on day 3, and on day 3, you are hoping to hit on 1 starter if you're lucky and a reserve for 1 contract. It's the day 1 and day 2 capital that needs to hit and should at least be eventually worth a 2nd contract, and providing some value (especially top 30-50 guys). 

 

 

 

QB was a given.  The next top 2 picks was defense.  But per my orginal post, the whole off season wasn't just the draft.  FA was heavy on defense.  

1 minute ago, The Consigliere said:

I

 

I'm also not entirely sold on the idea that we were 100% about fixing the defense, I really do kinda think we were hitting the board, period, after the Daniels pick. We had needs everywhere so anyone was justifiable....

 

FA was very dominated by defense.  The idea some of us talked about focusing on offense in the draft and defense in FA.  But they ended up drafting even more defenders.

I talked before the draft about Quinn referencing Peters showcasing a QB to him and how detailed he was in explaining the nuances of how this QB was playing.  And they had a session early on for a few hours on that QB.  Based on this, that Qb was clearly Daniels.