Ghost of

Who debunked the advanced stats? I know there was an error in third down stuff at some point but what do you mean? who? when? where?

Crazy? we had this same discussion back in the 00s. There are ways of intuiting things that go beyond statistical measures. Say, for instance, you're a Michigan student telling other people at school that Tom Brady had a magic about him and he'll be good in the NFL. But what round did he go in? By qualified NFL scouts and GMs? Why did that student at Michigan get it right? Why did some nutjob on Extremeskins not only call Brunell from the first game of 2004 as a disaster but then broke down his drops and explained one reason why he was failing? Did he know something Gibbs and company did not? Perhaps so.

Hell, you can apply that to the entertainment business outside of sports. I mean someone greenlit Ghostbusters 2016. But as to the quote, I have personal experience with friends and family who would cause you to question the above. I don't mean flubbing taking your temperature or diagnosing a broken arm, obviously.

Look at the quotes above. They all read like posts on Extremeskins. And when I say they read, I mean it reads like a thread on each QB. Daniels "processing" speed, McCarthy and Daniel Jones. It's bizarre. At least when I watch Thinking Football or someone similar, I get comments, terminology, etc. and it seems like they actually watched someone and took into account other context.

That section from Dane Brugler points out what I've said. Going into Penn State, McCarthy was a Heisman candidate. He injured his lower leg and had trouble throwing the rest of the regular season/Big 10 title game. Then people act like it's somehow out of bounds to consider him with the top ranks and then blame him for them running the ball when their head coach was suspended and his leg is preventing a solid throwing base for most attempts. The question is when these guys get into the whiteboard or film with teams---who is processing best? And who actually performed under pressure (from defenses and in big moments)? It's odd to see people talk about Daniels processing---I don't get it. I mean, I get that he may have shown mastery at the line this year from what you can tell but this all sounds like scouts don't know anything different than us lay "experts."

If anything, the SEC has a long history of not producing great QBs, I used to keep track of it. I'd almost exclude the Mannings from the conversation only because Archie was SEC and it's a family thing. It's not really indicative of QB play overall. If you take out Eli and Peyton My old take (it's outdated, the change in offenses and QBing in the NFL have rendered it obsolete and population changes) was that ironically, the Big10 was better at producing QBs and WRs (in addition to obvious offensive line, etc.) The SEC produced better RBs (which back then made less sense, since Big10 really ran the ball in conventional offenses for the most part back then).

Combined with him being 23...and the pressure/sack numbers. I just don't get it. Everyone disses the other prospects (including Williams) for certain things but I don't get how you can have what seem to be prohibitive numbers in certain areas and a slight frame and bad self-protective instincts.

Yes, this like discussion bounded vs perfect rationality, or what constitutes an emergent vs a fundamental property. No, I cannot go into an NFL locker room, even if I could throw decently and "lead" the team. But there are differences between guys that don't always boil down to "who better?" Interesting that you bring up Zach Wilson, he objectively made at least 1-2 really terrible statements last year when he struggled to perform. Brunell and Jason Candle were known for this as well (not so much being bad to teammates but not taking individual blame for poor play). "We" when things went poorly. It sounds bad. Speaking of subjectivity, even statements to the media right after a game can be seen pretty clearly for what they are, and often we'll hear leaks about it afterwards from locker rooms. Not speaking that way after a loss and poor individual performance would seem to be a base level skill for a good leader at QB. Also, on guys who are good but clearly not as great as others but are better leaders: Think Monte Coleman vs. some elite LB who is a great player but not necessarily a leader. Or one of the many game manager/mid-tier QBs like Ryan Fitzgerald who probably (overall) had more respect from his teammates (from what I can tell, I could be totally off) than objectively better QBs. Because there is a baseline of performance doesn't mean these standards don't still apply. --- VoR Yeah, Cunningham got to the NFC title game with the Vikings. But he had become a really good pocket QB by that time after age and injuries. One of the great turnaround stories in the NFL at the QB position.

I wrote that partially thinking of your posting history on the subject. It is subjective but so are the non-sports examples I mentioned (aside obviously from hindsight that "durr, he strategeried himself very well in this case"). Let me say it this way: Science in any real sense as experienced by normal people is extremely novel in human history. People had to find ways to recognize and "feel" patterns that described enough truth for them to survive and flourish. Not just what animals to avoid or what not to eat but cultural practices more sophisticated than that, whether it reconciled the sense of loss or guilt over hunting to make it sacred or ways of ensuring proper pair bonding and raising up of children. By trying to "measure" something and dismissing intuition's fumbling attempts to describe itself objectively and explicitly, you are liable to miss a great deal of truth and understanding related to the human experience, but probably also the natural world.

By this standard, you shouldn't ask teammates and coaches about a guy's leadership. Yes, it may get thrown around by talking heads but the notion that there are not qualitative descriptions of abilities (that are also very hard to measure from an objective standpoint) is absurd. Performance under pressure was clear with Brady by the time he finished his career at Michigan. I'm sure you can measure certain things like "4th quarter performance within 2 scores" but you can't necessarily measure how beloved by teammates is, or how much of a leader they're perceived to be. Hell, there are guys who've led teams as pretty mediocre players from a statistical standpoint but they got guys to believe in them. Whereas Jay Cutler did not inspire his team, regardless of whether he had a great arm, or was even pretty OK as a QB. Within certain bounds, I'd say the measures we have are inadequate other than at describing things in a convenient post-hoc fashion. Why does a guy have great numbers in the 4th quarter within one score? You can call it poise or clutch or leadership or determination but there are discernable non-quantifiable traits that humans have. Give me a formula that describes Napoleon or Alexander's generalship in comparison to lesser leaders bad ones. You can certainly "measure" in the sense of "what tactic seemed to work in this battle?" but how do you measure the Old Guard or Companions fighting skill or courage in comparison to their opponents. Do you set up a spreadsheet for that? What is the advanced metric? Would it not end up being a post-hoc numerical proxy for something ineffable? Ultimately, dismissing things as buzzwords can read as cliched as the hackneyed "he's a winner/moxie" scouting/media reports.

Dude, the Thinking Football one I posted (and he is very good, uses all the right terminology, at least I think and breaks it down very well) said at the end that he likes Maye's elite traits "but for godssakes please keep him away from Kliff Kingsbury!" RUH ROH! Probably best to get a deal and get JJ. Unlike Maye, he's good under pressure and in high leverage (I love this ****ing jargon these guys spew now) situations.

Simms is one of the very best in the business. As an analyst he's as smart and incisive as his father. (Don't check my previous posts on the matter.)

Sorry, two different threads. One was the youtube channel--that's only up to Maye, he's still working on McCarthy and Daniels (I think Daniels, he may have mentioned Nix or Penix). Someone posted the McCarthy and Daniels stuff from ESPN. Yeah, weird statistical comparisons. I thought he was really using filters on the advanced metrics but it's a mix of eyeballing it and stats that I find repellent (but also compelling as a mixed methods proponent, myself).

That said, if anyone has the McCarthy and Daniels sections to post that'd be great.

I don't have time to check every post but did anyone post this from Thinking Football? Essentially, he has elite traits but has some worrying tendencies that are about more than just poor footwork but inconsistent decision-making. He has a good one about CW and I'm looking forward to his other breakdowns.

"runnin from the grind"

My question would be where did he show that? Based on advanced metrics (granted there was an error in third down so who knows anymore) he doesn't demonstrate that at all. How can he if he's taking off. Guys who read defenses and manipulate defenders scramble to throw the ball, not take off and run.

If you're not with me, then you're my enemy.

Kid. House Party, Act I, Scene 2. -Spock in ST IV

No, he's not Michael Fassbender's father.

You said this like a month ago. Just about the same exact phrasing. It's offensive to compare a 5 star athlete who won at multiple levels, took the job from an incumbent CFP starter to Stetson Bennett. I saw the guy make multiple NFL throws, incredible athletic plays that Bennett did not make. McCarthy absolutely was needed to win a title, that's why he took McNamara's job and it was obvious immediately how much better he was than McNamara even in that spot-duty.

SEC supremacy in a year where a B1G team sent Saban into retirement, a team of 2 5 star recruits beat a team with 20+ in the semifinal, in a down year, where arguably 2 other conferences were better and 3 probably had better prestige ooc wins. The year after without a cheap shot vs MHJr, Ohio State certainly beats a great Georgia team for the title.

Earlier someone posted the Maye/McCarthy ourlads tape. Surprised (or maybe I just missed it) I haven't seen more talk about that. Or no discussion of McCarthy's pro day (which was Friday, right?)

Samwise carried Frodo the rest of the way up Mt. Doom. He stabbed Shelob and rescued Frodo. That's the kind of guy you want on your team.

You're not doing yourself any favors on this thread, dude. Invoke paterfamilias and make them watch Lion King or Aristocats or something or tell them you'll pull a Titus Manlius Torquatus.