OVCChairman

I saw the update too, which leads me to share your assumption... Kind of disappointed though. I'd like to shift things around a bit, make the throwbacks something special, instead of redundant. I don't hate those throwbacks, but what's the harm in changing things up?

Im sorry if I missed it, but do we know what our throwbacks are this year?

I really like what I've seen from Marquise Brown....

I dont have confirmation... just what ive read. Youre likely right that the moves have not technically taken place so nothing is done... yet.

He's not eligible to return from IR, we've already used our 2 on Marshall and Quinn.

Problem is that given the circumstances, that was a huge part of the game. Who knows what happens in the 2nd half. Do I honestly believe we would have come out and won? Not really, but I just want things called fair. I want our offensive and defensive schemes to be aligned legally based on how the rule book is written. Taking that TD away changes the entire feel at half time.

I don't know... I'm just a keyboard coach.. Manusky and Gray are a lot smarter than I am regarding the defensive alignment... and it's been working more often than not. The only thing I can think of is that they are expecting it to get called more. See the picture I shared above. That play did not get called and went from a 3rd and 9 at our 40 and turned into a TD. Had that flag been thrown and the penalty called correctly, it's 3rd and 19 at the 50 and we have a much better chance at holding them to a punt.. going into half time down by 7 with a big time stop... In addition to the blatant PI, if you look under my arrow, there is another Falcon player engaged with one of our guys beyond the line of scrimmage but was far enough that it likely would never get called... both are illegal blocks. Hard to defense against that stuff.

Hard to say... it doesn't make sense to me

I think it has to do with how our DB alignment is. As others have stated, we play a lot of soft zone allowing a free release at the line of scrimmage. If Dunbar and Norman are jamming WRs at the line, they don't have the ability to cross and absorb our DBs. I think you can communicate well enough to compensate as well, but the 2 dbs need to be in each others heads. Allow the cross but change the coverage like a pick and roll in basketball. Gotta be physical and sell the PI when they do it. Ridley's TD was about as blatant of an offensive PI pick play as I've ever seen and it didn't get called.

We also see it a lot because of how effective it is against us.

Its a good question. I would say that I don't think it's as easy at it may seem on the defensive side of the ball to just stick your no. 1 guy on the inside. A LOT of different assignments. You'd also be 100% showing your hand in coverage prior to the snap of the ball unless you were going to ask your top corner to be playing inside zone coverage. If they stick Julio in the slot and Norman lines up... you aren't going to figure Norman will be playing zone, he's likely going to be in man... which means you have a mismatch outside because your 3rd corner is now lined up against Sanu or Ridley. To add to that, you've now asked your Outside corner to learn a large part of the playbook at a 2nd position, and you've asked your 3rd corner (whether they be your designated slot corner, or the 3rd outside corner if you elect to then keep your 'slot' guy on the sideline), a 2nd position as well. You then have to make sure they're both on the same page in the event that there's a coverage audible coming from your safeties. If I'm a capable QB and I see Norman lined up in the slot against my no. 1 guy, I can change the play to get instant mismatches. I would instantly motion Julio to the slot on whatever side Dunbar is lined up on, leaving Stroman or Fabian lined up 1 on 1 with either Ridley or Sanu. IF they're in ZONE and Norman doesn't follow, then I know Julio is now looking at zone coverage in the middle and he's likely got a mismatch where an LB will be covering the area he's standing in.

I actually think this happens more than you think. Julio was lined up in the slot quite a bit last week if I remember correctly. I want to say I remember seeing Odell in the slot as well.

I thought it was an ACL... just checked "multiple ligament damage in knee" We've already activated Byron Marshall, and now Quinn off IR. Sims can't come back this year.

I get that

I hope you're right, honestly and I'm praying it doesn't bite us. There's valid points on both sides of the conversation (imho). I just fear we could have gotten better and we didnt... whether it be Tate or any other potential offensive weapon.

I get that but I'm not very comfortable with the WR situation were in. Crowder is still hurt and out again this week. He's dealing with an ankle which is about the 2nd most important part of his body, behind his hands, to be successful at what he does with cuts and changing direction out of the slot. P. rich is fighting through injury and is in question. Doctson has taken some steps forward, but who knows where that's gonna go. J. Reed has been healthy thus far, but if there's one thing he's consistent at, it's missing time. CT has now hurt the other ribs, and JP Finlay was on the Junkies this morning and he said this was almost an identical injury to the other side.... he missed a couple weeks last time too. Trey Quinn isn't eligible to play until Houston (i believe). IF, and thats IF everything breaks right, we're getting healthy toward the most important part of the season, but given the history, that concerns me. That's putting a lot of faith in Crowder, Reed, and Thompson, who have not shown the ability to stay healthy. The other thing to consider is that we've now activated Marshall of IR, and plan to activate Quinn. That's it for that option, you only get 2. So even if we needed to dig deep, we couldn't touch Kelley or Simms. Im not throwing WRs at Smith.... that's what were doing now. I'm just trying to improve our team... and WR is likely the biggest weakness. Yes it's reliant on another position but in a vacuum, it can be improved regardless of who is throwing them the ball.

OK, take our opinions of Alex out of it. Tate walks in and is the best WR on the team... period. The team is better with him on it. I don't think he's going to solve Alex's shortcomings. I don't think he comes in and we instantly put up 40 against the Falcons. I don't think Alex turns it on simply because he's here. I agree that Alex has not done well enough. He needs to get better, and if he plays better, the offense is better. I agree... but Tate is better than everything we have RIGHT NOW. My thinking is, Alex is going to get more comfortable. We have 9 games left this season. IF my thoughts are right, and Alex is playing at a higher level come week 14 and we're looking a playoff run in the face... I think we're gonna wish we had another weapon. These are the types of moves that people look back at and say "that was a hell of a job looking ahead."

I get it... but Alex' play aside, we had a chance to get better on offense and we didnt. Like you said, we're 5-2. We're firmly in control of our own destiny. Why wouldn't we try to get better? Saying we don't need to add a WR because Smith is struggling is cutting off your nose to spite your face (not you directly, just the general sentiment). Why wouldn't we want to improve our team? I don't want to mortgage the future... but to decide to not improve the team? I just can't agree with that.

I'm in the camp that Smith is willing to target a WR that's worth targeting. I think that most of Smiths career, he's had weapons on the offense that are not at the WR position. In San Fran he had Vernon Davis in his prime as well as Gore. When he got Crabtree, he got targets. When he went to KC, he had Jamaal Charles and Travis Kelce. One of the best pass catching RBs of his time, and one of the best TE's still. He also had Bowe and Maclin who respectively had their fair share of targets within that offense. 2016 No. Player Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt ▼ Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 87 Travis Kelce*+ 27 TE 16 15 1 -5 0 -5 -5.0 -0.3 0.1 117 85 1125 13.2 4 80 5.3 70.3 72.6% 86 13.0 1120 4 0 10 Tyreek Hill*+ 22 wr 16 1 24 267 3 70 11.1 16.7 1.5 83 61 593 9.7 6 49 3.8 37.1 73.5% 85 10.1 860 9 4 19 Jeremy Maclin 28 WR 12 12 1 -1 0 -1 -1.0 -0.1 0.1 76 44 536 12.2 2 44 3.7 44.7 57.9% 45 11.9 535 2 0 17 Chris Conley 24 WR 16 11 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 69 44 530 12.0 0 39 2.8 33.1 63.8% 44 12.0 530 0 1 12 Albert Wilson 24 wr 16 5 2 50 1 55 25.0 3.1 0.1 51 31 279 9.0 2 42 1.9 17.4 60.8% 33 10.0 329 3 0 32 Spencer Ware 25 RB 14 14 214 921 3 46 4.3 65.8 15.3 42 33 447 1 2015 No. Player Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt ▼ Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 19 Jeremy Maclin 27 WR 15 15 3 14 0 18 4.7 0.9 0.2 124 87 1088 12.5 8 61 5.8 72.5 70.2% 90 12.2 1102 8 2 87 Travis Kelce* 26 TE 16 16 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 103 72 875 12.2 5 42 4.5 54.7 69.9% 72 12.2 875 5 2 12 Albert Wilson 23 WR 14 12 5 26 0 8 5.2 1.9 0.4 57 35 451 12.9 2 44 2.5 32.2 61.4% 40 11.9 477 2 0 35 Charcandrick West 24 RB 15 9 160 634 4 38 4.0 42.3 10.7 34 20 214 10.7 1 80 1.3 14.3 58.8% 180 4.7 848 5 1 17 Chris Conley 23 wr 16 5 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 31 17 199 11.7 1 44 1.1 12.4 54.8% 17 11.7 199 1 0 25 Jamaal Charles 29 rb 5 5 71 364 4 34 5.1 72.8 14.2 29 21 177 8.4 1 26 4.2 35.4 72.4% 92 5.9 541 5 2 2014 (the no td to wr year) No. Player Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt ▼ Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 82 Dwayne Bowe 30 WR 15 15 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 95 60 754 12.6 0 37 4.0 50.3 63.2% 60 12.6 754 0 2 87 Travis Kelce 25 TE 16 11 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 87 67 862 12.9 5 34 4.2 53.9 77.0% 67 12.9 862 5 4 25 Jamaal Charles* 28 RB 15 15 206 1033 9 63 5.0 68.9 13.7 59 40 291 7.3 5 30 2.7 19.4 67.8% 246 5.4 1324 14 5 80 Anthony Fasano 30 TE 15 13 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 36 25 226 9.0 4 22 1.7 15.1 69.4% 25 9.0 226 4 0 13 De'Anthony Thomas 21 wr 12 3 14 113 1 26 8.1 9.4 1.2 31 23 156 6.8 0 30 1.9 13.0 74.2% 37 7.3 269 1 0 12 Albert Wilson 22 wr 12 2 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 28 16 260 16.3 0 48 1.3 21.7 57.1% 16 16.3 260 0 0 17 Donnie Avery 30 wr 6 3 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 26 15 176 11.7 0 27 2.5 29.3 57.7% 15 11.7 176 0 1 2013 No. Player Age Pos G GS Att Yds TD Lng Y/A Y/G A/G Tgt ▼ Rec Yds Y/R TD Lng R/G Y/G Ctch% Touch Y/Tch YScm RRTD Fmb 25 Jamaal Charles*+ 27 RB 15 15 259 1287 12 46 5.0 85.8 17.3 104 70 693 9.9 7 71 4.7 46.2 67.3% 329 6.0 1980 19 4 82 Dwayne Bowe 29 WR 15 15 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 103 57 673 11.8 5 34 3.8 44.9 55.3% 57 11.8 673 5 0 22 Dexter McCluster* 24 wr 15 6 8 5 0 5 0.6 0.3 0.5 83 53 511 9.6 2 43 3.5 34.1 63.9% 61 8.5 516 2 2 17 Donnie Avery 29 WR 16 14 2 6 0 4 3.0 0.4 0.1 71 40 596 14.9 2 51 2.5 37.3 56.3% 42 14.3 602 2 1 84 Sean McGrath 26 TE 16 9 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 40 26 302 11.6 2 25 1.6 18.9 65.0% 26 11.6 302 2 0 80 Anthony Fasano 29 TE 9 9 0 0 0 0 0.0 0.0 33 23 200 8.7 3 20 2.6 22.2 69.7% 23 8.7 200 3 0 The numbers are simlar in San Fran but I don't want to keep posting tables because the thread is already large.

Well I know the two of us have played table tennis going back and forth regarding Smith and how this offense will work... and we clearly have different viewpoints... which is ok. I respect it actually. SOME threat on the outside is better than virtually not threat.. no matter how tangible the statistics to prove it... right now we have virtually no threat. Adding even some portion of that can only be a positive.

I'm not going to say that hardly ANY WR will come in here and put up 1000 yards over the next 10 games. I get it. I don't need that. We don't need that. That said, we have ZERO threat out there.. so EVERYTHING on the interior is getting bottled up. We've taken a FEW shots to try and soften that, but I still don't think anyone fears anything we have to offer on the outside. D jax brought more than just catches. He occupied a safety pretty much at all times. You get a viable threat outside, whether or not Smith throws them the ball 10 times a game, it changes the offense. It makes the safety cheat, then all of a sudden that 10 yards completion to Reed doesn't have a safety over the top and it goes for 45. That off tackle play to Peterson doesnt have a safety crashing down and goes for 22 instead of 6. We also have NOBODY that scares you outside when the ball is in their hands. Someone like Tate is good getting separation at the point of the catch, and extending yac. We don't have that. Someone like that won't monumentally change the offense, but it can translate into an additional 10-20 yac per game, were talking about even longer drives, even more first downs... it HELPS. Not megatron who can take over a game, but the offense can be better.

My response to that is... what does he have to target on the outside? Docston? a wounded Richardson? Mo Harris? If we get a viable weapon at WR, I think he gets more comfortable looking out there. Why would you gameplan, or feel comfortable, throwing to Doctson over Reed? Harris over Davis? Anyone over Thompson? The actual weapons we have are not WR. Add an actual weapon and we'll likely see more targets.

I don't know that DB is as big of an issue. We faced possibly the 2nd best WR corps were gonna face this year in the Giants and were able to slow them enough. Beckham had 1 circus catch where Stroman was beat and played pass interference to prevent a TD. It was not fair that we put Stroman on an island vs Beckham on 3rd and 17 with no safety help. He had another one handed circus catch, and some stat padding in the 4th while we were protecting a 2 score lead. Dunbar is going to be returning, but our pass rush and interior pressure can help out our secondary A LOT. It's gonna be a big time test to see how we do against Atlanta, as they are likely the best WR corps we will see this year. I think we need a playmaker on the outside for Smith. We're 5-2, and theres a direct path to a playoff birth. It's going to take some work, but offensively we could use a bit more explosion on the outside. Richardson, Crowder, and Thompson have been dinged up, and on the offense they appear to be the 3 biggest threats with the ball in their hands. I feel like we need another player with the the threat to take it to the house.

@skinny21 you're right, but the offense not designed with the idea that air yards are the priority. People want to criticize a 'dink and dunk' type offense, but its a great way to run a scheme. High % passes, get the ball in the hands of the playmakers, and let football players make football plays. Tom Brady's avg COMPLETED air yards is 5.2 according to this... https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#average-completed-yards I get that's completed, and long throws generally have a lower % of completion, but his bread is not buttered going down field. The separation i was referring to was more about the WR that's got a DB beat or a 4 yard window on a 15 yard in.

I actually don't think this is the ceiling, I just think we need to get better at getting the playmakers the ball in space. Doc is not made to be effective in that light, but Richardson / Crowder can be very effective with the ball in their hands... as can D Jax. The Patriots have made a living on this mentality. Guys like Amendola and Edelmen don't make their money getting separation for the QB to throw to, they're most effective after the catch. This WR group is built similarly. I haven't seen enough from Quinn to completely draw a conclusion, but I believe he's of a similar makeup... better with the ball in hand, not in the air. D Jax also is one of the best at tracking the ball as i've EVER seen, so it would not take a long time to get that relationship with Smith...