Need audio-recording advice please

Hi all.

I'm looking to resurrect my career (OK, unprofitable hobby ) as a recording artist.

I was going to pick up an old-fashioned 8-track recorder, or possibly one of those newfangled digital 8-tracks. But then a friend recommended that I just use my computer instead.

So here's where I need the advice. What software do I need for recording and mixing? What other hardware is necessary, besides the instruments and amps (I plan to record guitar, bass, vocals, keyboard and electronic drums)? Do I need a crazy expensive audio interface, or just a relatively cheap USB-audio thing?

Any words of wisdom would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Well, if I were you I would pick up a simple M Box. Pro Tools is the industry standard for this stuff. It will give you enough to get started and they are less than $400 I think for the hardware and software. You would need microphones as well and they can get expensive depending on what you want. A good standard for guitar is a Shure SM57. You can record a keyboard directly through the MIDI ports on the M Box and same with the electronic drums. Bass and vocals...you could use a Beta 52 on bass...it is cheap...it sounds alright. And vocals, an inexpensive condenser microphone would do well. A SM57 might be okay...but I would rather use a condenser. Hope that helps.

The software I use for the NPR stuff is Adobe Audition and it has served me pretty well. I know a lot of engineers also like Vegas. Mind you, I'm closer to the talk side of sound than music.

In it's multitrack mode Audition is four track. Now, I've generally recorded onto a flashcard recorder or a DAT machine and then editted on the computer and I still like using a mixer, because I think the control is finer during the recorder, but that could also be because I'm a dinosaur. You also could take the mics through your mixer and then feed them into your computer.

Pro Tools is also good, although I always thought that was more video than audio. I haven't realy played with it much.

You should also get a pre-amp for your vocals, along with an eq.

It can get pretty expensive, pretty quickly.

I have a couple Rode K1 mics, that are pretty nice.

I didn't go the software route and got a Yamaha AW16G. It's pretty good, but the pre-amps in it are terrible.

If you do go the software route, ProTools is standard.

I use a simple M-Audio soundcard with a breakout box that has four analog inputs and four outputs. Cost me about $180. I bought a four-channel peavy mixer with preamps (as iheart mentioned, you will need preamps for recording vocals and acoustic guitars). I would recommend spending about $100 on a decent condenser microphone (I bought a Samson) and, if you need another mic or so, you can get decent Shure mics at reasonable prices. (Musician's Friend is a good outfit). As far as software goes I use Cakewalk (hint, hint: bittorrent) and it works fantastic. My roomate and I have been using this basic setup for a while now (not too expensive, at all) and we are absolutely thrilled with the results. Good luck.

Thanks a million for the advice, fellas. Things sure have changed since I was an idealistic teenager with a reel-to-reel and one microphone.

Some of these guys know a lot more than I do about this stuff. I have tried just about everything though. I’ve used analog, digital and computer based recording setups and the computer route is definitely the least expensive route to go as long as you have a decent PC to start with. The days of the old 4 track Fostex cassette recorder are over (thankfully). They were hard to use and in the end sounded like crap. I have recorded in the studio on 24 track tape as well and keeping that all straight is truly a black art. I guess that’s what engineers are for. All the studios now use ProTools.

The computer setup I tried for a while was Sonar with an M-Audio input box. I used Drum Kit from Hell 2 as a sequencer/drum machine. I liked DKFH quite a bit. As a drummer I’m a good guitar player and this made laying down basic drum tracks very easy. I didn’t like computer recording. It works for some folks but as a Neanderthal I like twisting knobs more. Yes, I know I could have used analog outboard gear for mixing but I didn’t. I was also constantly having PC problems with plug ins and such. Macs are supposed to be more stable, but I didn’t own one.

My favorite way to record was with a full feature stand alone digital recorder with a built in mixer. My old setup was a Roland VS-1680, a POD, monitor speakers, and a Shure 57. I also used two pieces of good rack gear: A multi effects processor that changed all the time (mostly for delay) and a Parametric EQ. I also used good instruments and good amps. The Roland had onboard effects but they sounded like crap.

The Roland was an expensive setup (in its day) but I added things over time little by little and other stuff I already had in my guitar rack. The end result was pro sounding IMO. Looking back I could have cut a few corners. I also could have gotten away with an 8 track recorder because I never recorded more than two tracks at a time.

I used a Korg digital 4 track when I scaled down a few years ago just for capturing ideas and was ok, but obviously you get what you pay for. A $200 Korg is not going to sound like a 16 track studio and quality outboard gear. A good ProTools setup can sound amazing too….just not for me.

Hope I didn’t muddy the waters too much. Good luck.

Be advised that if you go with your computer you are going to pay at the least about $500-600.

You are going to need a special sound card, which costs around $200. Your computer needs to upgraded if it doesn't have the memory or space to run the mixing software, so add whatever costs that might entale. The mixing software starts at $250 and goes up from there and some other minor add-ons when you are done, it will probably cost you easily around $500 at least.

The computer is easier, but it all really depends on what you want to do. Are you looking at just demo stuff, or do you want really polished stuff? You will have weigh, what you want as an after-product and how much you are willing to pay or want to pay. Just remember, that there's no way around it, if you go with the computer, minimum is $500 to get started.

Thanks Hog Fever and 81artmonk. To be honest, I'm having a hell of a time just researching all the advice in this thread! I'm firmly stuck in the Stone Age of recording, but I do want something that gives decent (not pro) sound with the option to upgrade.

I think I might go with a simple Firewire M-Audio box hooked up to a Behringer mixer, along with a PC running Cubase. Does this sound insane?

Thanks Hog Fever and 81artmonk. To be honest, I'm having a hell of a time just researching all the advice in this thread! I'm firmly stuck in the Stone Age of recording, but I do want something that gives decent (not pro) sound with the option to upgrade.

I think I might go with a simple Firewire M-Audio box hooked up to a Behringer mixer, along with a PC running Cubase. Does this sound insane?

I've heard good things about Cubase but I would consult these guys:

www.homerecording.com

Some of the posters on there are professionals and will give you great advice.

I have pro tools/digi 002 rack and do not recommend it. Too many potential problems with computer compatabilities and the program is not intuitive. If you search the pro tools forums there are thousands of people with the same problems and many go unanswered. One of the advantages of pro tools is that it can record 18 tracks simulaneously (8 tracks on the 002, 8 more ADAT tracks via lightpipe and 2 more optional through firwire) but it doesn't sound like you need that so PT LE would be overkill.

One of the advantages of pro tools is that it can record 18 tracks simulaneously (8 tracks on the 002, 8 more ADAT tracks via lightpipe and 2 more optional through firwire) but it doesn't sound like you need that so PT LE would be overkill.

Yeah, I'm but one sole Redskins fan--just a couple of tracks at a time is fine with me.

Alright, I'll try do give you the quick and dirty to get you started. For one, you have a good friend for recommending using a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation). Now that you have that idea firmly planted in your head, keep it there and don't let it go.

First of all, you aren't going to be recording the next reincarnation of Van Halen so hold tight to your wallet and ignore ProTools. Why? Because by the time you can understand and use every feature that it provides, you'll be out several hundred dollars and wanting to upgrade again.

Here is my philosophy when it comes to building a budget recording DAW. Focus on the path the signal takes from the instrument to the DAW. For starters, I wouldn't mic your amp. It's a waste of time at this stage and you'll piss yourself off because it will sound like a hammered turd. No offense, but your trying to record audio and learning mic placement and amp settings will just frustrate you.

What does this mean? Your primary concern should be your soundcard because that is the number one hurdle that can show the difference between a Yahoo webcam microphone recording and a clean digital signal reaching your computer. A good soundcard should never let you down and M-Audio makes several budget ones that should be right up your alley without too much strain on the wallet.

Look into a good DI (Direct Injection) box. What does this do?, it allows you to play bass without hefting or buying a budget bass amp. You can plug the DI box directly into a single channel and record. It boosts the signal to line level so that you can mess around with it on your DAW, which is the purpose of the thing in the first place.

Be wary of MIDI. I know it's a buzz word and everyone thinks they need the capability when building a DAW. With the quality of samples available today, all MIDI turns out to be is a high priced metronome. Hook your L-R Direct outs into your soundcard and let the keyboard to the sampling. It won't sound great, but I imagine your not in the mood to spend $5k on a few samples you'll only use for a couple of tracks.

Vocals, you can't go wrong with a basic Shure SM-58. It's the rock bottom industry standard at a damn good price. Anything over $85 and you're getting ripped off(wow, I bought mine for $50 new). Most times it's alright to buy used, even on eBay since the microphone companies repair them free of charge with the exception of shipping.

The last stop in the line is are decent pre-amps. Some microphones come with their own, mostly condenser type microphones. At this stage you may need a mixer for the mic preamps it provides. Something on par with the Mackie-1202 VLZ-Pro.

With all of the components I've listed with the exception of Cakewalk Sonar which is a robust yet inexpensive program, you should be coming in under $5-600 dollars.

I apologize if I sounded a bit harsh, and some others may correct me but I think this is the strongest route for you to take when you begin recording. When you eventually get into mixing, trade out your computer speakers for a set of studio monitors. Hopefully this points you in the right direction. I also apologize in advance for any grammatical errors I may have made before the grammar Nazi's get on my tail.

Remember, there is a lot of good info in this thread. Read it and research it. This is on your dime so only you can find the best deals. Good luck and happy recording.