Skins57 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 I have always considered myself a dem. my thing is this. Sept 11th happened, there is nothing that can bring back 3000 people to grief stricken families. If our Gov could have stopped this I believe they would have, instead of this BS game of blaming the other side it is time the goverment acts as Americans and works togehter to fight this *******s, getting our FBI to work better with the CIA. Also I don't think it would have mattered if Clinton or Bush or Gore or McCain or whoever was the president on 9-11 they would have reacted the same. Gore, I am sure would have had the same popularity rating as bush does. People are hurting and they need our president to look up to. Yes as a dem I want to say Bush has done an great job. I think they need to capture OBL or he will turn into what Sadam did for his DAd, A job not finished. Kinda what I am saying is chill out and can't we all ust get along:D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 Yes, supporting gun control makes me just like hitler, stalin, mao, and pol pot. How could I have ever missed that. What a credible site. rolleyes: The fact of the matter is this; I strongly support civil liberties. I think the American Civil Liberties Union is one of the best orginizations in the country and they are fighting for what is right 95% of the time. But not even the ACLU, the orginization who fights for the essential civil liberties of the American citezin's supports gun control, and theyre reasoning is pretty much my point of view except worded better than I could put it so I will paste it .. "We believe that the constitutional right to bear arms is primarily a collective one, intended mainly to protect the right of the states to maintain militias to assure their own freedom and security against the central government. In today's world, that idea is somewhat anachronistic and in any case would require weapons much more powerful than handguns or hunting rifles. The ACLU therefore believes that the Second Amendment does not confer an unlimited right upon individuals to own guns or other weapons nor does it prohibit reasonable regulation of gun ownership, such as licensing and registration. IN BRIEF The national ACLU is neutral on the issue of gun control. We believe that the Constitution contains no barriers to reasonable regulations of gun ownership. If we can license and register cars, we can license and register guns. Most opponents of gun control concede that the Second Amendment certainly does not guarantee an individual's right to own bazookas, missiles or nuclear warheads. Yet these, like rifles, pistols and even submachine guns, are arms. " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Posted June 7, 2002 Author Share Posted June 7, 2002 as a side note .. i dont think that gun control is the disarming of people. i understand that people can handle guns .. my father is from oklahoma and so he tells me about how where he was growing up everyone had a gun and it wasnt a big deal and they didnt have problems with it. But if there are measures taken to make sure people can responsibly handle guns, and that they stay out of the hands of convicted criminals, i consider that only common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 If the GOP wants to keep Dumya's poll numbers up they should keep him off TV as much as possible. I don't think that deer in the headlights look on his face will help his numbers in the long run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Moderate is one of the most gutless positions to claim atleast liberals have thier conviction even if they are usually wrong. Gun Control is in force in Washington DC. Hand gun ownership has been banned since 1974. Its has been in the top 3 in homicides per capitas for a decade Wanna move there? Police and public see my NRA sticker on my Navigator as well as my retired USN badge and they know the greatest deterrent to crime is in front of them a registered homeboy who is still an expert shot. What can congress (liberal Senators) do to slam Bush when they head the intelligence panels? Bush should say to heck with Bosnia and Kosovo let Europe handle it and use the military to help secure the US borders. Their purpose it to protect us and what better way to do that is here instead of in places where Europe should take care of their own ACLU is a joke where terrorists have more rights in some cases than our citizens or what they afford to their captives. The Post, NY Times and LA Times are a part of the LeftWing propoganda machine which is why they are good for sports and clipping food coupons only. What rights are we losing if we demand foreigners coming in to submit fingerprints to identify them? And how stupid does it sound that the FBI/CIA cant surf the net and check out pipe bomb making sites or enter mosqyes or Aryans churches to hear info? A major problem is that Canada let alot of refugees come into its country without documentation (this was reported on the OReilly Factor and CNN last night) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin S. Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 I don't want to waste my time but briefly: To FordHQ: 1. So you think your father is an expert on guns because he is from Oklahoma? (huh?) 2. Do you really think DAFunky1 was comparing you to Hitler? I hope you just wrote that to avoid answering a solid post. If you truly think that is what he meant then I think you need your head examined. Seriously. 3. Didn't Clinton serve 8 years in the Office and do nothing but try to win popularity. Hell, his people even tried to pay off people so that Billy would get the Noble Peace Prize. Opps, sorry he also got some from Monica. So I guess he did 2 things. 4. ACLU - Geez that's not a liberal group is it? Finally, I agree that you are moderate and that is fine. But might I say that you have yet to effectivelky back up any of your arguments and you refuse to truly answer any solid post that replies to you. Maybe we should all just stick to football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Diesel Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 I don't think gun control is a precursor to government abuse in this country. I just think the odds of that kind of thing happening here, as it did in Germany or Russia, are very slim. So that's not why I oppose gun control. I oppose it because common sense tells me that gun control (i.e. making them illegal) will do little, if anything, to prevent criminals from obtaining guns. For instance, do drug laws keep drugs off the streets? No. Drugs are there for anyone who wants them. The same will be true of guns if they are made illegal. All it will achieve is to prevent law abiding citizens from obtaining guns for their protection. You make guns illegal and you just take them out of the hands of responsible people and leave only criminals with access. What possible purpose could that serve? Gun control at this point in our nation's history would be the proverbial closing of the barn door after the horses are already out. There are already some 200 million plus guns on the street. Making it illegal to own one would be the most counterproductive step we could take to fight crime with guns. It's a stupid, short sighted idea to put it mildly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Diesel Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 BTW FordHQ. please talk more about your beliefs so we can all see how much of a "complete moderate" you are. :laugh: Let's see, you hate Bush but you love FDR, the New Deal, Johnson's Great Society, and welfare. You love the Washington Post, NY Times, and LA Times but think the Washington Times is "ultra-conservative" and run by the head of a "cult". You think the ACLU is the greatest organization in the country. You're pro gun control. Anything else you want to disclose to strengthen your case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 So true those who obey the law would be screwed. Look at Canada and Ireland the citizens deal with home invasions and robberies because the crooks know there is a great chance they are unarmed. While NavyDave lives in Maryland because I'm a law abiding citizen and know owning my guns here wont get me convicted and will allow me to take out the fool who decides to invade my home. A couple of years ago in DC a guy defended his home with a handgun and captured the burglar. Result? He was arrested for possesion of a handgun. Moderates in general claim they walk down the middle of the road instead of having convictions to get on one side which eventually mean they'll be squished like a grape on the political highway. As I said to others Real Men cant be liberals; I can understand chicks saddled with kids or Westys boy toys wanting govt handouts but not real men. I can understand it but I dont agree with it. If it was up to me there would be no welfare regular or corporate, but with the latter you would have to eliminate certain mandates that are hidden taxes too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Originally posted by FordHQ Lyndon Johnson's Great Society reforms will trump any piddly thing W does. While I can appreciate some criticism of Bush, if you applaud LBJ's horrific expansion of the welfare state, you are definitely way out on the left side of the political spectrum. And no, I am not a Republican. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 The great society was so great at taking away the freedom of a large segment of Blacks and lower class whites that you would think it was the invention of the KKK. Dependency on a govt agency for basic neccessities is in essence slavery. Generation after generation of kids having kids and knowing the govt would be their psuedo dad and hubby is pathetic. And it is irresponsible of the govt to continue with it. Heck they are soliticing single moms and teengirls to apply for food stamps because they have fewer people on the welfare rolls and of course they dont want to give those numbers. When a population doesnt need govt assistance and is proud of that fact they tend to frown upon those pushing that agenda. I still remember how you liberals reacted when Lieberman kept bringing up God in his speeches. Wasnt that uncomfortable especially when you slamming the religious Right? I can understand that when you are proud of the Godless Left label you have earned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtandler Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Originally posted by The Diesel BTW FordHQ. please talk more about your beliefs so we can all see how much of a "complete moderate" you are. :laugh: Let's see, you hate Bush but you love FDR, the New Deal, Johnson's Great Society, and welfare. You love the Washington Post, NY Times, and LA Times but think the Washington Times is "ultra-conservative" and run by the head of a "cult". You think the ACLU is the greatest organization in the country. You're pro gun control. Anything else you want to disclose to strengthen your case? Unfortunately, in today's academic environment, such views are considered moderate.:peace1: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoDak Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Put this thread into the tailgate section:high: :high: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Some of you people are really bitter. I just can't imagine siding with a guy because of what political party they are coming from. Both sides have produced sub-par guys lately. A liar/sex freak, and a puppet idiot reading what is put in front of him. Neither one is better than the other. I am a Demican, a combo of both and a more fun way of saying Independent (and there is no cool way to put Republican 1st in my made up name). What can I say? when I go to the booth to vote, I vote for people and not the little ® or (D) next to their names. I think some of you fine Skins fans do that though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyalligator Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Somebody was mentioning that Bush and Ashcroft weren't infringing on our liberties...How ironic... Ashcroft is leading a charge to overturn a state passed mandate in Oregon allowing physician assisted suicide. It seems very funny that a Republican of all people would try and impose the will of the federal government on a state. He is even doing it in a really ridiculous way. Because physicians would be proscribing medication that the patients would use to kill themselves, he wants the doctors arrested for violating the federal controlled substances act. Now I hate Gore and I hate Bush but this is stupid, why couldn't John McCain just have been elected, then I would be happy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Dude, Infinging on the rights for a doctor to kill a patient? Denmark is a prime example where euthanasia does has it colorful moments when the kids think the elderly members of the family "had a great life but they are now a burden on them," the inheritance has nothing to do with their decision either. Sh1t as much as I b1tch about insurance agencies they should never have to pay out anything if someone commits suicide. But on the other hand the fewer liberals especially in Oregon the better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Gun control? Im all for it. I always try to keep both hands on my gun so I dont lose control. Dont think guns prevent crime? Have you ever heard of a gun store being held up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brown 43 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Go Navydave! You're on a roll! :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Armed robber knocks off gun store By KEVIN CONNOR -- Staff Reporter A gun store with an arsenal of more than 200 weapons was robbed Friday evening by a bandit brandishing a shotgun of his own. Three Ruger Mini-14 rifles were stolen -- the same type of gun 25-year-old Marc Lepine used to kill 14 women and wound 13 others at l'ecole Polytechnique in Montreal nearly a decade ago. "It's not every day that a gun store is robbed. This is the first time that I can remember," said Winnipeg police Staff Sgt. Frank Minaker. At 8:30 p.m., the bandit entered the SIR Warehouse Sports Store at 1385 Ellice Ave. and stole the three semi-automatic rifles. "The suspect walked in with a shotgun and attended to the rear gun section and without a word went behind the counter, removed three high-powered rifles and fled the premises," Minaker said. No one was hurt and no shots were fired. Management at the store refused to comment. "If someone has a gun, what are you going to do?" said one employee who wouldn't give his name. The store keeps trigger locks on the guns, but doesn't lock the weapons up. There is nothing wrong with the way SIR stores its guns, Minaker said. "(The robber) didn't take any ammunition, but (the bullets) are standard over-the-counter ammunition," Minaker said. Police are looking for a male, age unknown, between 5-foot-6 and 5-foot-9, with a stocky build and weighing about 180 pounds. He was wearing a black ski mask, black jacket and black pants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Funkyalligator Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 This has nothing to with kids wanting to kill off their parents, this has to do with people that are in chronic pain that don't have the will to live anymore. If you had Lou Gehrigs disease and were in the advanced stages of it would you want to die, what about if you were in so much pain that you had to be on pain medication 24 x7 and it still didn't work all the time and you coudln't think straight, there are so many reasons to want to die but of course you've never been in that situation so how would you know, Navy Dave!!! And don't go calling me a liberal because I most certainly am not, I hate big government and I hate all the corruption in politics, take me back to the old days under the oak tree, when power wasn't bought and sold at the expense of the average man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Touche Bufford! I blame the trigger locks. That came out fast, you had to be holding that one waiting to pounce. Well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 thank google.com. when I read that I said to myself "I remember seeing on the news a story about this" One search, one article...cut and paste. Just thought it was funny. Like selling chocolate ice cream to a woman wearing white gloves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaFunky1 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 I'd like to see one where the guy stuck a store in USA. I met a guy from Canada a few years back and he was surprised at the number of places he could walk into and see firearms, especially handguns. ND I have to agree with you on the ACLU. They definitely are not a conservative think tank, nor are they right 95% of the time. Mention God and they are there to represent the handful of people who only care about themselves instead of considering the mass of folks who may want to hear a prayer at a graduation. It amazes me that just the word "God" would incite someone to bring legal action against someone elses right to free speech. And please don't start with seperation of church and state being constitutional because that phrase does not exist. FordHQ I never said you were Hitler or Stalin or the others, I just posted the link for you see who believed in gun control, and what they did when it was in place. Gun control is the first step to gun bans. California has picked guns to ban, I believe it was Mass. that has banned all guns not on a list, guns made prior to the enactment of the law are grandfathered in, requiring certain stringent manufacturing requirements... this was done supposedly to keep saturday night specials out of the state. Actually it caused gun prices to be artificially inflated in the state for the grandfathered firearms. Australia has seem horrible violent crime in their country since the ban on semiauto firearms. I have seen statistics that show violent crime went up as much as 400-700% after the civilians surrendered the firearms. If I can find the stats I will post it. Trigger locks don't do a thing but keep the armed unsafe in their own homes. Georgia is stupid in this regard. If I have a firearm in my house as a single adult, and some thief breaks in, steals my gun, and shoots someone else, I am responsible. Talk about a liberal idea at work. The criminal did it all, the arm secured in the house, yet they play the blame game on the gun owner... Just a rant not directed at anyone. Peace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Diesel Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 I think what NavyDave is saying is that it's a slippery slope. Today we may allow for patients with terminal illness involving chronic pain to commit suicide with the aid of doctor...tomorrow it may be just plain old age. Where do we draw the line? I'm not necessarily opposed to euthanasia in certain cases, but I can recognize the slippery slope that the concepts represents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted June 7, 2002 Share Posted June 7, 2002 Originally posted by Brown 43 Go Navydave! You're on a roll! :laugh: NAVYDAVE, NAVYDAVE, NAVYDAVE!!!! WHOO HOO!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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