afparent Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,144369,00.html FORT HOOD, Texas — Army Spc. Charles Graner Jr. (search), the reputed ringleader of a band of rogue guards at the Abu Ghraib (search) prison, was convicted Friday of abusing Iraqi detainees in a case that sparked international outrage when photographs were released that showed reservists gleefully torturing prisoners. Graner, the first soldier to be tried on charges arising from the scandal, was convicted of all five charges and faces up to 17½ years behind bars. The jury took less than five hours to reach the verdict. The verdict came after a five-day trial in which prosecutors depicted Graner as a sadistic soldier who took great pleasure in seeing detainees suffer. He was accused of stacking naked prisoners in a human pyramid and later ordering them to masturbate while other soldiers took photographs. He also allegedly punched one man in the head hard enough to knock him out, and struck an injured prisoner with a collapsible metal stick. The jury of four Army officers and six senior enlisted men rejected the defense argument that Graner and other guards were merely following orders from intelligence agents at Abu Ghraib when they roughed up the detainees. Graner, a 36-year-old reservist from Uniontown, Pa. (search), was convicted of conspiracy, assault, maltreating prisoners, dereliction of duty and committing indecent acts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herrmag Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 I'm just curious as to whether he (and others like him) were encouraged to perform such acts. We'll never know for sure, but I'd love to know. He deserves what he gets b/cuz any soldier knows that they are responsible for following any illegal order. However, I have an unsubstantiated suspicion that these "rogue" guards did not simply do this without higher ups knowing about it and/or encouraging it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted January 14, 2005 Share Posted January 14, 2005 "You can't handle the truth!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 It is ridiculous to suggest a lot of the "torture" was not direct orders/commands, considering similar abuses were occuring in prisons and detention centers thousand miles apart from one another, and like what usually happens, the lowest kink on the chain is blamed, punished, swept through the mud, while the people higher up are protected. Now this guy(the one mentioned in the above article), was a different story, he went above and beyond said call of duty and decided to be even more of a d!ck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prosperity Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 I think this guy is going to be used as the scapegoat while the intelligence officers who ordered him to do this will get away with it. For political reasons perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 The thing people are overlooking is the fact that Alberto Gonzalez wrote memos to Bush talking about how to tortue prisoners without violating laws. In other words he screwed up. How much higher on the chain can you get then George W. Bush? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Originally posted by Liberty I think this guy is going to be used as the scapegoat while the intelligence officers who ordered him to do this will get away with it. For political reasons perhaps. You nailed it. All those enlisted guys and gals are going to jail, but the big fat female general,, who was supposed to be in charge of the place, is gonna skate. What a recruitment tool this is gonna be. Join the Army, get hung out to dry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhhorus Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Originally posted by Sarge You nailed it. All those enlisted guys and gals are going to jail, but the big fat female general,, who was supposed to be in charge of the place, is gonna skate. What a recruitment tool this is gonna be. Join the Army, get hung out to dry thats the biggest shame; the officers, who should be held accountable for their NCOs and troops behavior will skate and the Intel officers and Intel civilians will skate as well. That should be nailed up as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Nothing new really, check this out http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64246-2005Jan10.html General Is Sanctioned For 'Unprofessional' Affairs Air Force's Top Lawyer Pursued Sex With Subordinates By Josh White Washington Post Staff Writer Tuesday, January 11, 2005; Page A13 Maj. Gen. Thomas J. Fiscus, the Air Force's former top military lawyer, will be retired at the reduced rank of colonel and lose nearly $900,000 in potential retirement pay after an investigation found him involved in several affairs and improper conduct with more than a dozen women, the Air Force announced yesterday. The punishment comes just months after an anonymous complaint against Fiscus prompted an investigation that unearthed 13 "unprofessional relationships" over 10 years. The Air Force inspector general found that Fiscus was involved in relationships with -- or had made inappropriate sexual advances toward -- female subordinates both at the officer and enlisted level, as well as civilians. Maj. Gen. Thomas J. Fiscus will retire at the rank of colonel and lose about $900,000 in retirement pay. (U.s. Air Force) According to an Air Force news release, the incidents involved six active-duty judge advocates, two paralegals, one civilian Defense Department employee and four other civilians. The Air Force's inspector general, Steven R. Polk, concluded that the two-star general's actions included conduct unbecoming an officer, engaging in unprofessional relationships, fraternization and obstruction of justice. "Maj. Gen. Fiscus, a married man, wrongly pursued romantic relationships with several single women," Polk wrote in a 100-page investigative report. Polk later noted that such actions were "below the standards expected of an Air Force officer and gentleman. Additionally, his position as the Air Force's judge advocate general ensured that any such misconduct would bring tremendous disgrace to the armed forces." Fiscus's legal defense team yesterday released a statement arguing that his improper behavior consisted largely of sending or receiving overly personal e-mail, use of informal or familiar names and inappropriate displays of affection. Fiscus, also in a statement, apologized to his wife and said the couple are going to try to salvage their marriage. "I am heartbroken that I let the Air Force and JAG Corps down by engaging in several unprofessional relationships with Corps members and non-DoD civilians, including exchanges of inappropriately intimate and familiar email," Fiscus said in the statement. "I also displayed inappropriate affection for two subordinates and a civilian employee. For my improper actions, I am accountable and accept full responsibility. My greatest regret, however, is that I dishonored the woman I love, my wife. I owe her the deepest of all my apologies." Fiscus, who had reached the top rank possible in his position, served as judge advocate general from February 2002 until he asked to be relieved in September after the allegations against him surfaced. As the Air Force's top lawyer, he supervised 3,200 employees, including more than 1,300 Air Force judge advocates. Fiscus was accused of having sexual affairs outside of his marriage and with making advances toward his subordinates, sometimes setting up secret meetings in the Washington area and having romantic interludes with women in his Pentagon office. At times he would meet one woman in her apartment, at other times at an Irish pub nearby. Investigators found a trail of e-mail messages stretching back several years, many of which had strings of suggestive conversations and included "sickening pet names for each other," according to the report. Several times subordinates tried to caution Fiscus or told him to stop outright. "His actions, for the women he victimized, created a hostile work environment," Polk wrote. "Additionally, in view of his . . . role as the Air Force provider of guidance for the prevention of sexual harassment, Maj. Gen. Fiscus exhibited stunning hypocrisy by his own sexual harassment of JAG Corps subordinates." The punishment, part of a non-judicial procedure, included Fiscus losing more than $10,000 in pay. The reduction in rank, which removes Fiscus from the retired general officer corps, could mean nearly $900,000 in lost retirement pay. Top Air Force officials reduced his rank two notches because they faulted his performance at both the brigadier general and major general levels. "The actions of Air Force leadership make it clear that such misconduct will not be tolerated, regardless of the grade or position of the offender," Gen. John Jumper, the Air Force chief of staff, said in a statement. Big deal, the guy retires a Col. WHat punishment. THe irony is that this is the head guy in charge of PROSECUTING the behavior. Had that been me, I'd be forced out as an AIrman Basic and lose my retirement and probably serve some jail time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenaa Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 The superiors of those involved should definately been held accountable. A manager is always accountable for the actions of his subordinates. With that said, there has never been any evidence that the types of things that happened were ordered. Alberto Gonzalez's memo did not outline specific acts of torture that could be used. It did make a case for harsher interrogation, as allowed under the law. But to extrapolate from his memo that is was somehow legal or ok to commit those acts is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Punani2 Posted January 15, 2005 Share Posted January 15, 2005 Originally posted by Sarge You nailed it. All those enlisted guys and gals are going to jail, but the big fat female general,, who was supposed to be in charge of the place, is gonna skate. What a recruitment tool this is gonna be. Join the Army, get hung out to dry Yeppers! This is one of the reasons why I got the F out of the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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