Art

[TwoDeep3]

Just read on a Cowboy's board of all places your defense of the Banks signing.

You waxed poetic about his talents and how the statistics have shown his fumbles are in decline.

Your excuse filled tirade to someone named Bufford spoke about the level of talent his teams have had. Which gives the impression that you believe he has been hampered by a less than stellar supporting cast, which speaks to his inconsistency.

Then you assume you understand what went on in Dallas and spout platitudes about the changing philosophy. While this might bear some fruit, there is a hidden situation that Jones will not speak about.

Factor in this piece of information. Banks signed with Dallas then begged off a quarterback school where he would have had the opprotunity to practice with his new receivers. He did so to move his family to Dallas. This is a quarterback school meant to get the passing game in sync. Pretty cavalier for someone that is to lead a team.

I also offer up this little slice of proof that Banks has problems on your end as well. And Marty, whom you painted as a disciplinarian, just bowed to get the player signed. Below is the URL.

You stated to Bufford that Kannell was a desperation move but Banks wasn't. I suggest the last few paragraphs discussing Banks refusal to workout for Shottenheimer either paints the picture that Banks is an attitude problem or Shottenheimer is not the discipline guy you have stated. Or both. Yet in any of these events this speaks directly to desperation on the part of Marty.

He will be a suitable back-up for your team should George go down to injury, but he will not get you to the promised land. His lackidaisical work ethic married with his Prima Dona attitude prevents him from being consistent.

He has the tools, but he is his own worst enemy.

I expect you to use your rapier like wit to shoot the messenger, but the fact remains he did not work-out for your team and made a pretty disparaging comment to the press afterwards. Deny these facts as you will, this guy thinks he is a starter and has yet to demonstrate in six years that he is anything but a mediocre quarterback with head problems.

http://www.sportsline.com/u/ce/multi/0,1329,4200401_59,00.html

[ by TwoDeep3 on August 17, 2001.]

[Bucs92]

Two deep,

I know you've been wondering where I've been, but, what I've been doing is asking mommy for more ice cream and to make the bad man disappear. But, Art won't. So, my delusions and obsession merely grow by the day and I get more bitter and spiteful knowing I've been overwhelmed and can't seem to fight back.

Please help me make the bad man go away. Now that I have you as a friend, I won't have to run away in festering anger for at least a day or two. Do you like ice cream too? Mommy says it's great for making you feel better. I love mommy.

------------------

Champion of free sex changes and Displayer of delusions of grandeur (shaddup!)

[ by Art on August 17, 2001.]

[Cskin]

If you two, among others on this board, spent more time talking about football....instead of making every pointed attempt to challenge and ridicule fellow posters opinions, this board might actually attract new users who could indeed interject coherent and discussion worthy posts.

I've grown sick and tired of the use of this medium to pacify your attempt to honor yourselves with posts as well asconvince other board members of your superior football "knowledge" and use of the english language.

Give it a rest, go find another board to spout your venom, or let's all meet somewhere so I can knock you F****** Block Off.

Christopher

[RF4L]

I know you two guys(?) have a vendetta to play out here and I can appreciate that. However, do you realize what you've just done?

You have initiated a tit for tat thread of potentially mammoth proportions. A significant volume of cyberspace could be used up before it's all said and done.

Why can't you just agree to disagree?

[Om]

Gentlemen (and I use that expression advisedly), congratulations. Your apparent obsession with the Redskins and Art has now officially reached epic (if laughable and rather pathetic) proportions.

Unbelievable.

Carry on ... I'm sure you intend to.

[Art]

Do you think you are so insightful as to have been the only person in the world to have read the bit about Banks not being sold on the idea of trying out for the Redskins? It could potentially have been an issue if in fact the Redskins had ever asked Banks to work out. Marty wasn't told by Banks, "Nope, not gonna do it." Banks arrived and Marty said, "Sign here son."

Granted though, had the Redskins wanted him to work out and he refused it would have been a rocky start and questionable move. But, for a fact, the Redskins never needed him to work out. Unlike Kannell, who's not been in the league, Banks was as recently as Monday the starting quarterback for another NFL team. He didn't have to work out. He had to take a physical and sign a piece of paper.

But, thanks for playing.

As for your attempts to characterize my comments on Banks as ANYTHING other than cautionary and limiting, you will also have to try again. DC Demolition, not Art Mills, made the argument, based upon statistical evidence, that Banks has fumbled less frequently than he did early in his career over the last couple of seasons. It's a difficult point to argue, as it's true.

And at no point have I not admitted that Banks is a flawed commodity. He most certainly is. That's probably why he's a backup in D.C. and a starter in Dallas. I've said that Banks is a physically talented quarterback who is far and away the best available backup solution for Washington at a position of presently apparent need. It's really not hard to grasp the situation here. But, as hard as you try to make outrageous fair and couched statements, it merely validates your continued foolishness here. But, I'll certainly be willing to slap you out of your peevish fantasies all night.

------------------

Doom is in the box.

[ by Art on August 17, 2001.]

[MarkPSkins]

I love how everyone is saying that Tony Banks refused to work out for the Redskins...One...he was never asked to work out. It's not like they pulled him off of a Minor League baseball field ala Kannell. Two, Tony Banks never refused to work out, he just said "I don't know what I would have done." I do know what he would have done, he would have worked out, or he would have went home. But he wasn't asked so therefore he could not have refused. Tony Banks was not brought in to be the "savior" of this team, nor was he told he would be the starter until ten minutes before he was cut. He is INSURANCE in case George cannot go. My god people, make a mountain out of a mole hill wwhydontcha.

------------------

<IMG SRC="http://www.texaspitts.com/RedskinsLogo.gif" border=0>

[MarkPSkins]

Sorry Art, I guess you just said what I just said.

------------------

<IMG SRC="http://www.texaspitts.com/RedskinsLogo.gif" border=0>

[Ignatius J.]

Difference between Redskins and Cowboys:

Cowboys: Banks = Savior

Redskins: Banks = Servicable Backup

that's a huge difference and makes the banks pickup a good one for the skins. He's not a savior. he's not even a very good quarterback. he's got next to no potential for the future and the skins don't need him to have one. But for vet minimum AND no bonus, he's a great fit here, and it's hard to argue with that.

Twodeep is right that Banks won't lead us to the promised land. But that's not what he hired him for.

-DB

[Om]

Art, you may in fact be the King of Couching ... but there is absolutely no doubt that you are the Emperor of Edit.

[wildbill]

Although most times I just sit back and read, there is no way possible that these guys could even have a good argument as far as a back-up QB goes.

Tony banks a savior no.BJ a savior No,but here is the drill,you put people in a position to make plays and hope for the best.But when talking about back-ups you do what is possible with what is available,and that is what we did and will continue to do because believe it or not this is a winning franchise and will continue to be reguardless how well you write.HTTR(get em coach)

[Dale]

From Peter King:

Dallas. What in the world are the Cowboys thinking, whacking their prospective starter, Banks, three weeks before opening day? Three reasons.

One: Banks came in thinking he had the No. 1 job clinched and didn't work hard to assert himself. Nor did he treat practices and preseason games as if live bullets were flying. And his accuracy was as scattershot as ever.

Two: Banks was a loner at camp, a stark contrast to team guy and vocal leader Quincy Carter, the backup.

Three: Carter not only outplayed Banks, but owner Jerry Jones and head coach Dave Campo figured: Why play a quarterback they didn't like instead of getting someone they really like ready to be their quarterback of the future? This way, the Cowboys, who have a league-high $15 million to spend in the offseason, will know whether Carter's their man or whether they need to spend some bucks on a big-time free-agent quarterback.

[Art]

Yes, I am a man of numerous talents .

As for this thread, I'm not likely to let it become the type of thread I usually string alone with these boys. I like watching them dangle, and I will knock them around some, because it's easy and I grow board not having them to kick, but, it's dangerous when you push an obsessed stalker too far.

You see how they are. They take a few days or weeks to work up courage. Then they flame in trying to get all their aggression out in one swoop, hoping upon hope I won't see it long enough that their words actually stand uncountered. That, to them, is a victory. Then, I appear, whip them around, and they run off for a few days or weeks to gather more courage and a clue as to how to beat me. Pretty much, on a day to day basis, both Two Deep and ESPECIALLY RuBucs walk through their real lives actually thinking about Art.

You see, to them, I'm not just a guy who lives on a message board. I'm every bully who battered them as children, or, in Ru's case, yesterday. I'm an actual nemesis. They probably communicate in support groups trying to figure out a plan of attack that actually wins them some points. And, they never fully grasp that on this message board, only one of the two parties, and I'm not the one, is taking this stuff seriously .

So, they take some anti-psychotic medications to cope, but, eventually, it all explodes and we'll read about another postal worker. Trust me, there's a direct correlation between guns at the workplace and people I've battered. Look it up.

------------------

Doom is in the box.

[Dale]

While I agree with the article I just posted by Peter King, unfortunately, I see him as an idiot...so the fact I agree with him is a tad disturbing.

Nonetheless though, his three reasons pretty much mirror a lot of the recent reports coming out of Dallas from the likes of Randy Galloway, Spagnola, and what not.

[Art]

Dale, Peter King is a total moron and has thick Dallas ties. But, in this case, he's not stating anything over reaching or totally idiotic. There are a lot of folks making critical comments about what Jones did. There are also a lot of folks defending his actions. Personally, I understand what Jones did for the very reasons King stated, "Why pay Banks anything when Carter is likely equally apt at handing the ball off and running a control offense, and he's the future, while Banks is not."

To me, with Dallas likely to experience limited success this season, unless Banks was exciting and dynamic in camp and clearly capable of winning multiple games himself, it is probably worth the risk of exposing Carter quickly and moving him into the lineup. Of course, the coaching staff didn't think so, and had Carter No. 3 on the depth chart the day before Banks was cut, and, Campo has repeatedly defended all his quarterbacks by slamming his receivers for dropping balls.

Folks like Galloway in the Dallas papers (though perhaps not him specifically) indicated that Banks had multiple drops in his five attempts and four misfires in the last game. Campo said he had four drops in four incompletions. For Dallas, it probably is a risk versus reward type move and likely won't work out badly for them.

For Washington, bringing Banks in at least gives the team a quarterback capable of completing passes in practice and getting the receivers and team to reach offensive performance goals during practice sessions. Banks is also capable of starting in the NFL, read his 61 career starts. So, if George can't go, you know Banks has seen enough and started enough to perform. So, for Washington, the move by Dallas, was greatly fortunate.

------------------

Doom is in the box.

[Art]

Yes, I am a man of numerous talents .

As for this thread, I'm not likely to let it become the type of thread I usually string alone with these boys. I like watching them dangle, and I will knock them around some, because it's easy and I grow board not having them to kick, but, it's dangerous when you push an obsessed stalker too far.

You see how they are. They take a few days or weeks to work up courage. Then they flame in trying to get all their aggression out in one swoop, hoping upon hope I won't see it long enough that their words actually stand uncountered. That, to them, is a victory. Then, I appear, whip them around, and they run off for a few days or weeks to gather more courage and a clue as to how to beat me. Pretty much, on a day to day basis, both Two Deep and ESPECIALLY RuBucs walk through their real lives actually thinking about Art.

You see, to them, I'm not just a guy who lives on a message board. I'm every bully who battered them as children, or, in Ru's case, yesterday. I'm an actual nemesis. They probably communicate in support groups trying to figure out a plan of attack that actually wins them some points. And, they never fully grasp that on this message board, only one of the two parties, and I'm not the one, is taking this stuff seriously .

So, they take some anti-psychotic medications to cope, but, eventually, it all explodes and we'll read about another postal worker. Trust me, there's a direct correlation between guns at the workplace and people I've battered. Look it up.

------------------

Doom is in the box.

[Brave]

I just KNEW you two (TwoDeep and Bucs92) would find one another.

There are no false pretenses about Banks. His signing was a bit of a desperation move because our situation was getting desperate.

TwoDeep - Would you honestly prefer a completely inexperienced QB that had yet to show he belonged in the league as your back-up when an experienced, physically talented (though admittedly sorry) QB becomes available? Husak over Banks? I'll say this ... you pull for the right team. Your decisions would be similar to that owner you've got there. Oh, and speak up ... it sounds like you've got your head up your @ss.

Buc92 - Nice dress.

[Dale]

Art:

I won't disagree it was a good pickup for the Skins. Banks has a strong arm, and as a backup, his leadership abilities won't really be a big problem. Considering the other alternatives out there, the timing of the release of Banks was indeed fortunate for your team. When players like Kannell and Friez are the alternatives, a player like Banks suddenly looks very appealing.

IMO, from what I've seen at Cowboys Camp in person -- including in the team's cafeteria, on the field, on the sideline of the preseason game, etc -- Banks' release had much more to do with personality/attitude than the performance he has shown.

Although, indications for the first two weeks of camp was that Wright was the most impressive QB in training camp practices.

Carter had looked good against backup defenses in the preseason. Stellar one game against Oakland; and against Denver, he played fairly well. He has been our #2 QB since preseason opened, and while Banks' stats haven't looked bad, and Carter's look much better, again, I believe that has far less to do with his release than his lack of dedication.

Jerry has stated several times that he signed Banks for the contract he did with hopes that he'd come in here, and essentially, change from the QB he's been in previous years. A longshot, he admitted it was. Unfortunately for us, Banks came in and skipped a few 'throw and catch' sessions he was asked to attend, amongst other things. He didn't seem like he really gave a damn, frankly.

He just wasn't a fit on our team. King's statement of calling him a loner on our team was very accurate. From the two clips I saw at Skins camp, Banks has already shown more outward emotion and communication with players in DC -- again, in two clips of film -- than I saw in four practice sessions and over the course of a preseason game in Dallas.

[ by Dale on August 17, 2001.]

[Brave]

Dale - Where are you hanging out since the demise of TSN? Good to see you pop in here from time to time.

[Art]

Dale, for the record, at Monday's Cowboy practice, Carter practiced with the second team while Wright practiced with the third team, but, despite that, Carter was still No. 3. at least according to Campo and the Dallas Morning News on Monday.

"At the time, Campo opted to use Carter with the second team, even though he said Anthony Wright had been the more consistent player in practice. Carter also worked with the second team in the Cowboys' 20-6 loss to Denver on Saturday. Campo refused to say Carter had moved past Wright on the depth chart, but Carter worked primarily with the second team while Wright worked with the third team in Monday's practice."

In order to move past someone, you must be behind someone on a theoretical depth chart. Regardless, I don't know that either team is presently making a mistake. I just hope it works out better for us than you .

------------------

Doom is in the box.

[TwoDeep3]

Art,

You see you get all swelled up with your self-importance and go off on these horsesh*t tangents that have nothing to do with the original premise. I am not afraid of you nor do I work up the courage to post here. I drop by and read your crap, especially the little gems like postal workers are the result of Art's scalding remarks. I laugh at your imagery.

However, I see your little toady did close out the last thread where we had a chance to exchange ideas. Controlling thought does tend to make one look smarter.

Then you have the sheer self-absorbed notion that I spend time thinking about you. The mere fact that you are the Head Coach here should suggest that your "real life" is filled with pounding keys and dreaming of Redskins. I saw the blurb and felt it contradicted a point you made. Nothing more. No grassy knoll, Art. You aren't that damn inportant.

And your little slap at me for mentioning the article was funny. I figured you saw it and vainly tried to counter its substance with your pendantic and verbose ways. While you think up Twainian prose to delight the inbred and drooling that travel here, some of us are not as amused with your "I'm smarter than you are" opinion of yourself. We see this as a smart guy that bullies some of the simpletons that come by to heap slurs as you entertain the lackies that find your brand of redundancy to be the height of intelligent life.

Of course there are those that see it for what it is. You are just a guy with a pretty good vocabulary that is full of sh*t.

Windbags tend to use far too much space to say nothing. I noticed you had to post 5 times in this thread to sate your ego.

I will again quote from the article:

"Schottenheimer had planned to give Banks a workout before signing him. He pointed out Wednesday he even gave Joe Montana a workout before signing him in Kansas City.

But Banks would have none of it.

"Sixty-some starts -- if they had tried to make me work out, I don't know how I'd have responded to that," Banks said."

If he wasn't asked to work out then this was a very strange way of saying it. Furthermore, it makes Marty look stupid if he says he had to workout Montana but didn't Banks. However, Tony's comments were just the Tony Banks we saw in Dallas. Arrogant and filled with a hubris that he has actually toted water in this league.

Johnny U. made the remark that Banks biggest failing is he isn't a leader. I suspect that Unitas does have the credentials to make such a claim with authority. He further said that the reason Dilfer was successful and Banks was not had nothing to do with anything on the field. It was strictly Banks lack of leadership. I am sure you will dismiss this with one of your non-germane analogies, as you type the equivolent of the R-S-T volume of the Encyclopedia Brytannica, but them's the fact, sweetheart.

I'll be around. big boy. When he caves or you have a quarterback controversy. Until then, via con Dios, little Buckaroo.

[Art]

Two Deep,

I understood your appearance here. You attempted to create out of a non-issue an issue. This is how niggling fools who spend far too much time being the idiot trolled for spends his days. It is a fact Banks landed on the ground, drove to Camp and was offered a contract after a physical. That's it.

He was asked, and I happen to know the precise question, as I've actually spoken with the reporter who initially asked the question in a group setting, "Were you surprised you weren't asked to work out before being offered a contract?" and he answered as he did. And, in fact, Marty said the same thing, that Banks didn't have to work out to be known. So, your point was devestatingly refuted, and I throttled you for attempting to expand my comments to fit a meaning that was not written.

I'm so sorry you don't like the throttling, but, honestly, I didn't make you show up to receive it. I've never indicated that Banks was a leader. I've never indicated he could lead us to the promise land. I've simply said he has some moderate ability to play in this league as demonstrated by his known production, and he is an obviously superior alternative for us given the weakness we've seen with Husak and Rosenfels.

You are trying to light a fire out of a bucket of water, then you are angry it won't light. Dude, wise up, and you'll figure it out yourself next time.

------------------

Doom is in the box.

[ by Art on August 17, 2001.]

[NavyDave]

T Bamks came here for the vet minimum which is less than Dallas offered him and with no SB.

So its not like he can't be cut if attitude problems arise

and he is here to be number 2 if Husak can't.

------------------

Take a sip of the Marty Kool Aid and Believe

[AtlSkin]

Dale, my man, you better be glad you came back w/another post decrying King, because you guys are ALWAYS lighting in to him. To use him as fodder for your arguement would be like me sighting "af". Shouldn't and ain't gonna happen. You understand.

Anyway, the REAL bottom line is that he'll be our back up. We obviously need one and to think that Q, who I saw play, in person, every home game at UGA, is better then Banks at this stage, is utter & complete silliness. Might it make some sense to throw Q out there and see if you drafted him to high, which I do, particularly considering you could've had Smoot(Whew! Thank the football gods that didn't happen!)? Yeah, ya might as well cause either way, IMHO, you weren't going to win but 5 games MAX, anyway. Also, Q does NOT throw a good deep ball which is what I thought your WR's were going to provide, the srtetching of the ifeld. As usual, it was also handled VERY badly. JJ has and will ALWAYS be the bane of your squads existence. The fact that niether you QB coach nor O coordinator new this was coming, should be VERY disturbing. We in Skins land, hope and pray that JJ continues to see himself as a potent football mind, with a tight reign on personnel moves. IMHO, as long as that continues, you'll NEVER see your previous heights again. The thought of your '02 cap room and what he'll do with it, should be positively SCARY!

HTTR!