'Skins pick Mike Williams???

[Mr. S]

we dont have Spurrier as coach anymore, there wont be giving up of needs in order for players we could use. Think aobut it, if we took Doss last year, we probably wouldnt have the safety dilemma this year. McCants has already proven to be a third receiver anyways, and Russel may have gotten a better chance to prove imself last year as well.

[Skins26]

Doesnt seem likely, but crazy things happen on draft day.

[SKINtil8tin]

D-Fence!!!!!!

[FranklinNoble]

You gotta remember... Gibbs isn't exactly known as a genius on draft day.

Two words: Desmond Howard.

Still, I don't think they take a WR that early... but nothing would surprise me.

[donnyg]

Originally posted by FranklinNoble

You gotta remember... Gibbs isn't exactly known as a genius on draft day.

Two words: Desmond Howard.

Still, I don't think they take a WR that early... but nothing would surprise me.

This is actually the first time Gibbs has ever had GM type duties

[FranklinNoble]

Originally posted by donnyg

This is actually the first time Gibbs has ever had GM type duties

Yeah, but as I recall, Gibbs was pretty much 90% responsible for the Howard pick, and he sure seemed to enjoy making a sensational draft day selection.

I'm guessing he's gotten that bug out of his system, and he'll make more calculating picks this year... although at the rate they're going, the 'Skins may not have any picks left.

Which would suit me fine. I'd take a 3-6 year established veteran over an unknown rookie any day of the week.

[The Consigliere]

It's also odd considering there are many rumors that Williams is not as fast as rumored to be, and that he's really a Key clone, size, good routes, good hands but lacking in terms of top end speed and possibly a second gear. I care more about functional speed, and I currently buy Roy Williams as, along with Rashaun Woods, the most polished WR in the draft. Fitzgerald is the outright best, and Mike Williams is very talented but open to question, Lee Evans and Woods are definitely the value picks, Reggie Williams is a little confusing.

I'd much prefer DL help, but if we are actually considering Taylor, I'd prefer Roy Williams any day of the week to him. Williams would have 5-10x the impact of Taylor. What I'd like best still is to trade down w/Houston pick up their second rounder, draft Udeze, Wilfork or Harris in that order at #10 (if it has to be Harris by default, I'd consider moving down again), and use the 2nd rounder on DL help or Safety help, or get a guy like Woods if he's still around. Damn, I've got to keep my fingers crossed that Philly doesn't end up with Evans or Woods, those guys will be absolute steals.

[GreatRiggo44]

I think Williams potential impact on any team is being greatly underestimated here. This is no ordinary receiver by any means. Ok, I am a USC alumni but that only means I watched every game SC played this year and last. I would have to say Williams was the most important player on the field for both of those years, and there was no way to stop him, and he never was stopped.

[FranklinNoble]

Originally posted by GreatRiggo44

I think Williams potential impact on any team is being greatly underestimated here. This is no ordinary receiver by any means. Ok, I am a USC alumni but that only means I watched every game SC played this year and last. I would have to say Williams was the most important player on the field for both of those years, and there was no way to stop him, and he never was stopped.

Yeah, but the Pac-10 has been pretty weak the last two years. It's not like he's faced much in the way of tough defenses.

I'm not trying to take anything away from him... the few times I saw him play, he looked impressive... but I don't think the 'Skins need to take a chance on him when they already have good WR's and could use the pick on a greater immediate need.

[The Consigliere]

Originally posted by Chipper

I think drafting a wr would be retarded. YES, we have enough recievers already. Coles is a solid number 1, Gardner is a good number 2, and behind him we have Mccants who is underrated, taylor Jacobs who we drafted LAST year, and Cliff Russell who we drafted the year before that. We definately don't need any more wr's. We arent running the fun and gun anymore. OUr defense is really lagging behind our offense, and I would really question the coaching staff is we draft another wr.

I'm not about to suggest that we should draft a WR this year as a first priority, however to say it's retarded is nuts. Gardner was complete and utter cr@p last year. He played worse than he did as a rookie, in fully 70%-75% of his starts he caught 3 passes or less, and gained 32 yards or less. His marks were putrid, and the state of the Fun-N-Done around him doesn't really play to me as Coles was producing at a nice rate even after he suffered an injury that probably should have put him down for nearly a 1/3 to half of the season minimum if I remember correctly. The knock on Gardner coming in was that he lacked top end speed and a second gear, he just got through with a high 4.46-4.49 at his workout in 2001, but the word before and after was that the speed didn't translate to the field, to put it in Walsh's words, he,"lacked functional speed." In the open field he lacked a second gear, he couldn't get consistent separation after the reception or during the routes. But I think we could live with that if he ran great routes as rumored, was dedicated and continued to have the nice hands he had at Clemson. Unfortunately he's failed in all of those area's as well. After a fine sophmore season that many here, and at CPND feared was his ceiling, he regressed. Gardner doesn't look like a long term answer at #2 though I'll fully support the idea that Gibbs be given a shot to glean what he can out of him. Clark, Sanders, and Brown all were ho-hum before they got to Washington, outstanding under Gibbs and Ho-Hum upon their departure (Monk was just great period and like Clark, by the time he left he simply was too old and on too crappy of a team to be consistently productive). So if Gardner can become a solid complement, possession receiver and red zone/jump ball target, Gibbs will extract every last bit of that talent out of him. However if Gibbs, like many Redskin fans, feels after looking at the film that Gardner doesn't have what it takes, I won't argue because I think it's something that a lot of us have seriously been wondering about after watching three seasons of consistently dropped passes, lazy and shortened route running, and serious speed issues.

I love McCants the guy, he's a great guy, I love his size, I love his red zone production, but a lot of scouts and insiders say that he just hasn't been able to get it done between the twenties and has trouble getting off the line. Maybe good coaching will solve it, maybe not. He's an interesting prospect, but right now he's still no better than a dark horse when it comes to long term potential.

Jacobs is a complete unknown and could be one of those much dreaded "previous regime" players, the guy that's a favorite of the since deposed coach and is now considered too much a symbol of that regime. Now if the player is productive, that can all be forgotten, however Jacobs was injured and did nothing of consequence as a rookie. He's supposedly hard working, a 110% effort guy, has nice hands and is fairly fast so who knows what he can do, but right now to expect big things from him just yet, is a bit of a stretch. He could be Huge for us, or he could vanish.

Stone Hands Johnson and Cliff Russell were idiotic pick ups to me, and total wastes, neither holds any importance to me, long term. Of course I could be wrong. That's always more than possible. However, the thing is, we aren't set at WR. We don't know what we have beyond Coles, in truth I'm not at all comfortable with anyone behind him, though I like McCants and Jacobs as darkhorses. That's why I'd love to steal Evans or Woods. Woods has amazing hands and is a HUGE red zone producer and Big Game player (he absolutely SMOKED Oklahoma back in 2002), Evans had a terrible injury in 2002 that wiped that season clean and dropped him dramatically in scouting reports, I think in a less well stocked draft, Evans could easily be a top 15 pick. He's expected to go anywhere from 25-40 in this draft. Roy Williams will be a steal for someone, particularly if he can stay healthy, and focused, Fitzgerald is hugely special, Reggie Williams is interesting, Mike Williams will be HUGE if he runs a nice forty, if not he's a warning sign we should avoid.

Still, I prefer DL first, but if we don't go DL, WR makes as much sense as anything else to me. I just don't see the need to spend a 14 mill or thereabouts signing bonus on a safety or a tight end, we can get terrific safeties and tight ends for 1/4 that sort of signing bonus with actual NFL experience, the same cannot be true of Defensive Lineman or usually WR's (though sometimes a dark horse is unearthed).

[The Consigliere]

Originally posted by GreatRiggo44

I think Williams potential impact on any team is being greatly underestimated here. This is no ordinary receiver by any means. Ok, I am a USC alumni but that only means I watched every game SC played this year and last. I would have to say Williams was the most important player on the field for both of those years, and there was no way to stop him, and he never was stopped.

When I watched him, I'd agree, but guys much smarter than me say that he lacks top end speed, and we all know how important speed can be at the next level. You can get away without top level speed if you have great acceleration and functional speed, and run terrific routes (HELLO JERRY RICE, and to a degree Rod Smith), but if you don't you could be in trouble, like JJ Stokes, who was just as dominant or nearly so at UCLA in the fall of '94 but did jack and squat in the NFL since (only one solid season since being drafted by the Niners).

I want to see that forty time, because I didn't watch enough USC games to get as good a picture of him as I did of Udeze. I love his hands though, damn, he's got terrific hands. I've NEVER seen a draft w/WR's like this. The '96 draft was supposed to be real special with WR's (Key, Kennison, Glenn, and Harrison topped the charts if I remember right, with Tom Jackson being the only talking head who said Harrison would be the best of the lot, if I remember right), but this one has:

1.) Fitzgerald-once in a decade talent. Good attitude.

2.) Roy Williams-Drop dead in shock talent, explosive athletic ability, concerns about health, heart and motivation.

3. Mike Williams-Outstanding hands, superior Big Game production, huge in the red zone, runs nearly all the routes well. Physically gifted and very athletic, speed?

4.) Reggie Williams-The lesser of the Williams but possibly the best value. Very productive, quite athletic, fast but possibly lacking top end speed (questions may be answered in workout) and quite strong.

5.) Rashaun Woods-The best hands in the draft. Hugely productive against anyone and everyone. Lacks top end speed. Excellent route running.

6.) Lee Evans-Great functional speed, very nice hands, an explosive WR and athlete who can knock one out of the park at any given moment. Serious injury in '02 has lots of GM's concerned.

Mike Clayton is another one, but I only saw him play twice this past year and know next to nothing about him.

I wouldn't be shocked if all of them had terrific NFL careers. I don't see a lot of weaknesses in any of them.

[Displaced Fan]

The key word to this draft is "mock", because that is what it is doing to anyone who has any decent football knowledge. Though, it would be cool to have him replace Gardner. Being a Michigan State alumni, I simply love the guy for the way he killed Michigan in the Rose Bowl.

[SKINZ_DOMIN8]

They are idiots. We already have a bonifide #1WR in Coles. A subpar #1WR playing WR#2 in Gardner

Gardner is barely a #3. He drops more than he catches.

Are you people telling me you would not salivate at having Coles and Williams on the same team??????? Who would other defenses cover? Talk about major nightmares.

This still would be better than taking a safety.

Trade Gardner for extra picks there definitely will be takers.:2cents:

[Commander Adama]

Originally posted by SKINZ_DOMIN8

Gardner is barely a #3. He drops more than he catches.

Are you people telling me you would not salivate at having Coles and Williams on the same team??????? Who would other defenses cover? Talk about major nightmares.

This still would be better than taking a safety.

Trade Gardner for extra picks there definitely will be takers.:2cents:

Totally agree. Use LC for the longball, Mike Williams for slants, hooks, and short passes, and DMac for a third receiver. Though I don't imagine Coach Gibss having a lot of plays with 3 WR's on the field.

My top 7 of the Draft for the Redskins:

1. Ben Roethlisberger

2. Mike Williams

3. Kenechi Udeze

4. Sean Taylor

5. Tommie Harris

6. Steven Jackson

7. Kellen Winslow Jr.

Basically if we picked up Ben Roethlisberger I would look at possibly trading Patrick Ramsey next year, depending on how well Ben would do. If we picked up Mike Williams, Rod Gardner would be out for a 2nd round draft pick (With that I would pick up a defense guy). Steven Jackson is a great, Coach Gibbs type Runningback who would make a great backup to Clinton Portis.

[The Consigliere]

Where's Fitzgerald in your chart? Fitzgerald has the most upside of any WR in this draft and is much further along in terms of technique and physical talent than fellow youthful talent Koren Robinson who was drafted at a similarly youthful age in the '01 draft.

If I were to do a top 7 it would be:

1. Eli Manning (if Ramsey is traded)

2. Larry Fitzgerald-best WR in draft

3. Ben Roth (a trade of Ramsey would necessitate)

4. K. Udeze-very underrated pass rusher/run stuffer

5. Roy Williams-In nearly any other draft would go top 2-4.

6. M. Williams (pending forty time)

7. V. Wilfork-best DT if motivated and arms aren't an issue (two big if's).

[Drex]

Of course hindsight is 20/20, but if the skins had selected Boldin over Jacobs last year, this discussion would be irrelevant.

[The Consigliere]

That would never have happened though, the second he ran that 4.71/4.85 forty he dropped on virtually every draft board to late third round/day 2 pick, he was a typical Cards pick in that sense. It's just that inexplicably, the Cards were actually right, and virtually everyone else was wrong. I suppose he has great functional speed and just had a bad day on the FSU workout day. Worse yet, the guy was notoriously good as a blocker, an outstanding blocker and hardworker, he's a classic case of people letting one feature of a workout overwhelm EVERYTHING they saw on game film.

I really think they should use different runs for different athletes, for instance, WR's should really be timed in an eighty yard dash and the measurement should begin at the 20/40 yard mark, to test for acceleration, and foot speed. WR's don't need to be great at times forty speed, what they need is great functional speed, the ability to accelerate from a slowed down position, a second gear, so to speak, and the forty doesn't really do an effective job of measuring what receivers have this second gear. Gardner times a 4.45/4.49 supposedly but noone on the planet is gonna tell me that Jerry Rice (who times a 4.59/4.62) was slower in his prime than Gardner after the catch, Rice had outstanding functional speed, could change gears better than almost anyone.

[Skins26]

All I can say still is that

crazy things happen on draft day..........

[Commander Adama]

Originally posted by The Consigliere

Where's Fitzgerald in your chart? Fitzgerald has the most upside of any WR in this draft and is much further along in terms of technique and physical talent than fellow youthful talent Koren Robinson who was drafted at a similarly youthful age in the '01 draft.

If I were to do a top 7 it would be:

1. Eli Manning (if Ramsey is traded)

2. Larry Fitzgerald-best WR in draft

3. Ben Roth (a trade of Ramsey would necessitate)

4. K. Udeze-very underrated pass rusher/run stuffer

5. Roy Williams-In nearly any other draft would go top 2-4.

6. M. Williams (pending forty time)

7. V. Wilfork-best DT if motivated and arms aren't an issue (two big if's).

I really like Fitzgerald. He was the one that made Pitt this year. I like Mike Williams just a little more. Definitely more than Roy Williams, though I think Roy Williams has character. He could have came out last year, but instead chose to stay in college for his senior year. I'm not sold on Manning though. He has an arm, but I don't think he has the drive, intelligence, and determination of his brother Peyton, that's why I like Ben better. Ben is a smart quarterback, who has excellent read capability, size, can move outside of the pocket (better than Ramsey can), and does have arm strength. I think he would be a better replacement for Ramsey than Manning if it came down to that.

Personally I think we might want to do that, and trade Chris Samuels for Orlando Pace (And a draft pick from next year) that way we can get out from having to deal with Sexton again. If the Redskins were to send that message to Sexton he would either have to wise up, or lose a lot of clients because they would be afraid they couldn't get a deal with the Redskins.

[Joey T]

Why stop at seven? Why not do a top ten or twenty?

Better yet, do a mock draft scenario. I love to hear what the experts say. I helps me formulate a plan:cool:

[Commander Adama]

Originally posted by Joey T

Why stop at seven? Why not do a top ten or twenty?

Better yet, do a mock draft scenario. I love to hear what the experts say. I helps me formulate a plan:cool:

I'm still trying to figure out if this was sarcasm or not. Probably, since I am no expert, lol. I just love the Redskins and like sharing my opinions here. As far as why a top 7, those were just my hopefuls for the Redskins and it's a good number.

[tvan]

Originally posted by Jonathan

I think that you have to get the player with the best value when you draft - need is secondary. That said, Kellen Winslow does meet a need we have for a tight end, and I think he is the kind of player that has perennial all-pro written all over him. We have good receivers on our team, but we need a tight end to really open up our offense.

The Redskins are still looking to add defensive line help through free agency, and are shoring up our secondary if Butler becomes a Redskin. Offering Butler a chance to join us telegraphs that we won't draft Sean Taylor it seems to me.

I agree that KW2 is the best TE available I hardly think he fits as the blocking TE that Joe utilizes in his offense. I say we need to trade down for more picks.:2cents:

[Joey T]

Posted by Displaced Redskin Fan:

I'm still trying to figure out if this was sarcasm or not. Probably, since I am no expert, lol. I just love the Redskins and like sharing my opinions here. As far as why a top 7, those were just my hopefuls for the Redskins and it's a good number.

Just a 'lil bit of sarcasm my Redskins brother, but my intent was not to demean your post, just to question your intent. Alas, I'm no expert either or I would be an NFL GM or at least a players agent:laugh: