Why do you guys like to beat up Vinnie Cerato when

[Joey T]

You know nothing more about him than the FEW things said when he left SF? Convienient for Carmen Policy and Dwight Clark (now heading up the Browns front office)to have a fall guy, huh?<br /><br />He came here respected as an NFL personnell man by many, but was dissed by those who were/are jelous of the 49er's.<br /><br />His tenure here was impacted by the drafting of:<br />1. LaVar Arrington (no brainer)<br />2. Chris Samuels (fought for by Russ Grim when many wanted that little Santana Moss from Miami)NOT a Vinnie decision.<br />3. Lloyd Harrison (coveted by our then db coach)<br />4. Too lazy to look up the rest of the picks, but I do remember that Mookie the Rookie was also coveted by Grimm.<br /><br />And now you guys want to lay the sal-cap problems on Vinnie (When Danny was making a one year run at winning the SB). <br /><br />Snyder tried and it just didn't work out. C'mon guys, it just doesn't wash. Vinnie had nothing to do with it!<br /><br />Snyder knows it's the truth and that's why he wants to give Vinnie another shot. Snyder knows Vinnie had nothing to do with that STRETCH of the imaginization to win the SB, NOW!<br /><br />No one on this board can substantiate that Vinnie is a BUM when it comes to evaluating football at the NFL level. If ya got it, post it. If it's your mindset, you're entitled to it. <br /><br />Vinnie did a fine job at Notre Dame and was hand picked by Eddie D & Policy to evaluate collegiate<br />football talent. Vinnie fought for T Owens and won. Druckenmiller was a Mooch pick. Thus the split among the 49er hiearchy during that saga and remains to this day!<br /><br />Unless you have proof (hey, I hate your mamma too), let the man prove himself to be in the wrong business. I know that's hard for Die Hard fans like us, but that's "jus the way life iz".<br /><br />I like coming here and reading your feedback on just about any given topic concerning the Skins and for the most part, I like reading better than I do writing. Just had to put in my $.02 on this topic, because I felt it was needed as food for thought <img border="0" title="" alt="[smile]" src="smile.gif" />

[NavyDave]

There was no way in heck the skins were going to spend a number 3 pick in the draft on a slow 5'9 receiver when the memory of Desmond howard is still fresh and that kid is Moss like and hasnt burned up the league in Cincy has he?<br /><br />If anything we would have taken Plaxico.<br /><br />Cerrato's arrogance caused us to miss out on a decent kicker twice.<br /><br />But his failures did help us get rid of norval

[OrangeSkin]

Cerato was a yes man...It would not surprise me to see Snyder bring him in for more power. Snyder was responsible for drafting Lavar and Chris. He was also responsible for bringing in "Neon Deion." Cerato is nothing more than Snyder's ***** with a fancier title.

[Joey T]

NavyDave:<br />**************************************************<br />"There was no way in heck the skins were going to spend a number 3 pick in the draft on a slow 5'9 receiver when the memory of Desmond howard is still fresh and that kid is Moss like and hasnt burned up the league in Cincy has he?"<br />**************************************************<br />The pick would have been Moss over Samuels, NOT a # 3 pick, look it up my man. As I said, Cerrato had nothing to do with that. Moss was a Snyder favorite at the time and a favorite of many on this board and the CP board. Plaxico was taken #1 by the Steelers, so we had No shot at him!<br /><br />OrangeSkin:<br />**************************************************<br />"Cerato was a yes man...It would not surprise me to see Snyder bring him in for more power. Snyder was responsible for drafting Lavar and Chris. He was also responsible for bringing in "Neon Deion." Cerato is nothing more than Snyder's ***** with a fancier title."<br />**************************************************<br /><br />Please elaborate for uninformed posters such as myself. Where do you get this "Inside" information, or are you going to claim that it is<br />the media's word you are going by. <img border="0" title="" alt="[big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> <br /><br />Like I said, show me the money(proof) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="cool.gif" /> , then maybe we can lick your boots like soooo many are saying Vinnie licks Snyders..........

[indyskinsfan]

Hmm. I guess you put me on the anti-Cerrato list. Why, because if he wasn't Snyder's yes man, then he brought in a slew of folks that were pretty da** good and some that, well, they didn't help the "organizational" cause from a cap standpoint and they were ghosts of their former selves. Even Bruce at times, appeared to walk the father timeline.<br /><br />If Cerrato is responsible for bringing LaVar, Chris, Conway, Centers, Thompson, then he has done quite well. The Deion, Carrier, etc. deals would also be pinned on him. If that is the case, I could live with it. Since He WON'T be responsible for bringing them in, although the "approval by committee" would favor Snyder's decisions, should Cerrato be the claimed yes man.<br /><br />That 75-25 split is not as good as it looks, because, what left was the cap hit that kept us from getting better players last year or looking elsewhere the year before. If on the other hand he is not blocking Mendes and the cap constraints, then it's ok, but if he starts that high profile Deion crap again, that will shatter the upper echolon of the Skins organization for all of 2002 and beyond.<br /><br />I still don't like him!

[Kevin West]

Samuels was drafted a year before Moss. Snyder wanted Moss, we went with Gardner.

[BogeyMan]

The argument in the 2000 draft was Peter Warrick vs. Samuels. I think the correct pick was made - same for Gardner vs Moss.

[Art]

Without comment on the rest, as I have to process it, Joey T meant Peter Warrick, not Moss.

[fansince62]

not to make too much of it....but when has Cerrato ever built a championship team? NEVER. the real point is that there is better (much better) out there - not that Cerrato is some sort of villian.

[Stricknine]

Whoever comes in as VP of Player Personnel is just going to be another voice anyway. This whole thing is about Snyder being a big part of the draft process again. He, like Jerry Jones, thinks he is a football guy and wants to pick the players. Hopefully he will listen to reason though and not try and run the draft himself.

[mardi gras skin]

I gotta say, I like what JoeyT has to say. I thought the Sammuels thing took balls. Trading up AND not taking Warrick as so many people wanted. Good gutsy call.<br /><br />And I do remember that the db coach was going nuts he was so happy about the Harrison pick.<br /><br />Additionally, there are a few guys, Flemister and Johnson, who were undrafted fa's under Cerrato who are looking pretty good now. <br /><br />Some of the FA pickups were the stupid. Over the top. Deion and George specifically. But whose fault was that?

[Stricknine]

You know what, I think it'll work out either way so I am just gonna sit back and watch. <br /><br /> The big thing I am interested in is who is going to be D Coordinator? Every time I read the Post it says the list could include Bradle from the Jets and former Steelers DC Woody Widenhofer. Im getting anxious. I want to see a good DC hire, and when I see names like Widenhofer and that Colts DB coach, I get a little scared.

[Terry]

I noted the comment that our spending in 1999 left us with little cap room in 2000.<br /><br />But the plan was that in 2000 we would still be hung over from celebrating our Superbowl win, and that we'd be going into the 2000 campaign with virtually the same team, not gutting and rebuilding under a new coaching staff.<br /><br />Bruce and Deion were supposed to push us over the top vs. the Rams. And in that we beat them at their house during 2000 you could say that the plan was a success. Only it was supposed to happen in January. But our defense did move up to #4 overall, so we got value for all the spending.<br /><br />Both the Deion and Bruce contracts were supposed to give us 2 to 3 years of play apiece, then we'd drop them. Deion bit us in the *** by not coming back after 1 season, but I don't see how that falls on Cerrato, or even Snyder.<br /><br />The only 'bad' move was Jeff George, and some of the latter round picks that didn't make the team. But I believe that Marty cut some of those guys.

[jonjeff]

Joey T,<br /><br /> Read the post by Art concerning Cerrato and you will understand why not too many of us care for him. He can't judge NFL talent to save his life. He is Snyder's "yes man" and thats it. Besides, his eyes look like they are going to pop out of the sockets at any time!

[Art]

Jeff George was absolutely NOT a bad move in the slightest when he was brought in. He provided depth at the quarterback position in case Johnson got injured and it was George that beat the Rams in a game where his arm alone beat the Rams.<br /><br />George was brought in and cost the team $1 million against the cap in 2000. We signed a QB in George who was just coming off a season in which in just 10 starts he completed 58 percent of his passes for 2800 yards, with 23 TDs and 12 INTs. We brought him in for $1 million in actual cap hit, a total of $2 million in signing bonus meaning if we cut him it wasn't harmful and if we kept him because he could play at that level, we had a bargain at the position.<br /><br />Marty gave George the money, not Snyder. Marty is the person that decided George was going to play in an offense predicated on 4 receivers running 5-yard routes on each play, not Snyder. To be honest, if we'd had the offense in place we wound up using for Banks while George was in, he'd probably have been capable. But, that's neither here nor there.<br /><br />The sole mistake of the free agency period prior to the 2000 season was Deion Sanders. Sanders was a mistake in that we paid for him more than anyone else would have considered and bid against ourselves to make it happen without protecting ourselves against his antics. On the field Sanders was an adequate performer. Smoot was a better performer this year, but, on the field, Sanders did an acceptable job for us. But, that was the mistake we made.<br /><br />Carrier was supposed to still be here even next year, but, the suspensions and less than David Terrell quality of play makes that a bitter pill to have had to take and a risky move, but, something we've gotten better because of. George, though, was not a mistake when he was brought in.

[mardi gras skin]

Art, if I read your first two paragraphs and just scratch out George's name, I could agree with it completely. My problem, and something we will disagree with, is that George was brought in. I think he was a bad pick up. Not good to have on the team, cap situation aside.