Developing Our Drop Back Passing Game - What Does That Mean For A Young Qb?

[MartinC]

Warning long post!

I found an article on Grantland on how the new class of QBs (RGIII, WIlson and Kap) will need to progress on the QB curve to get to the level of a Brady or Peyton Manning. Its a great read for anyone wanting a primer on how a QB reads a defense (and what that means) and how a passing attack is designed to attack coverages.

I will try to summarize it below in a kind of chalk talk way (copyright KDawg!). I have bolded some key buzz words or concepts that you will hear in conversations on ES and in commentary on games.

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9590729/how-new-class-promising-nfl-quarterbacks-reach-greatness

There have been a few threads and conversations about how we develop our offense and especially our passing game this season. There have also been comments in the media about how simple our passing game was last year and how one of the things people are looking for is how RGIII develops in being asked to make and making more complex reads as we open up the play book.

I think some of the comments/concerns about RGIIIs ability to read coverage carry out reads and work through a progression are overblown. I can find lots of examples from last year of RGIII getting to his second and third reads and you don't have the unreal completion percentage and record breaking low number of interceptions if you cant read coverages.

That said though our passing game WAS pretty simple last year.

Over 40% of our passes were off play action and the success of our running game was holding linebackers and giving RGIII very simple reads, often keying one defender (see later about coverage read) and making a high/low decision. Kyle did an amazing job with some smoke and mirrors (often revolving around what looked like read option but often was not) in getting receivers open so that so often RGIIIs first read was open. Hard to critique a QB for not getting to his second read if his first read is wide open and he is hitting him with the ball!

So as we develop the passing game and perhaps pass a little more and run a little less. what can we look for in our we attack defenses and how a QB develops in reading coverage and processing information post snap?

Much of how an NFL Passing game works is still based on the teaching of Sid Gillman. He revolutionised how a passing game was constructed. Below are some of the things he introduced which are still used at all levels of football including the NFL.

Passing Lanes

You will hear commentators talk about passing lanes often, what they are sometimes talking about is the gap between lineman and defenders in which the QB is finding room to throw. However what they are also talking about is the concept of dividing the field into 5 vertical lanes

1. 5 yards in from the sideline.

2. The numbers and just inside.

3. Between the hashes

4. The numbers and just inside.

5. 5 yards from the sideline.

Gillman wanted to put a receiver in each lane to stretch the defense horizontally. He also wanted to stretch the field vertically by putting receivers in the same passing lane deep, intermediate and short - this is often called a levels concept.

Reading Coverage

So with the defense stretched both horizontally and vertically as long as the QB can read the defense and we get the pass protection the QB should be able to find an open receiver against any coverage.

Easier said than done of course! So how do they do it?

There are two basic types of read progression and coverage.

In a progression read a QB will look at receivers in a pre determined order - is 1 open, is 2 open, is 3 open, is 4 open? He throws to the first receiver he comes to who is open.

In a coverage read the QB is reading the coverage of the defense and if the defense does X he does Y, if it does A he does B. So if a key defender drops one way he throws to the receiver if he drops an other way he throws to the TE. Note the QB is not reading the whole defensive coverage in this example just one or maybe two key defenders depending on the play call he has and his decision is based on how they react.

As defense get more complex more complex reads are required. We get to a hyrbrid reads which is what any good NFL QB needs to be able to execute - its a progression read based off coverage. So the QB first determines what the coverage is and then based on that he adjusts his progression accordingly.

Defenses of course hide coverages pre snap so post snap a QB has to confirm his pre snap read - its this ability to make correct diagnosis and decisions which separates a Peyton Manning from a John Beck! As our attack gets more sophisticated you will see different pass concepts packaged so we have answers for different coverage combinations in the same play.

In a packaged play you might have say a levels concept on one side of the formation to attack say a Cover 2 defensive coverage on the other side some kind of curl/flat to attack a single high safety look. You will have a different progression on each side and even maybe a progression on one side and an either/or coverage read on the other.

The QB has to read the coverage pre snap, based on that decide which side of the field he wants to throw - post snap in the first step of the drop confirm that pre snap read, Normally you want the QB to look to the middle of the field and read the safety while seeing the rest of the defense in his peripheral vision. The action of the safeties often gives you the read confirmation - look for the concept of the best located safety. The best located safety is lined up in a position where he least able to assist in coverage - find him and that tells you were you can attack!

For anyone who made it this far hope this helps explain some of the basic concepts and gives you at least some insight into what a QB is looking for and how a modern NFL passing game attacks the complex coverages we see today! There will be a test .....

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Great OP la.

 

I need to sit down later when I've finished running my errands and go through the link. But a great subject from a great member of this place of ours who kinda' knows what he's talking about being he played the position.

 

And yers all thought those funny talking English dudes only had soccer. 

 

Hail. 

[RandyHolt]

Thanks OP.  Very informative post.

 

I think the ability of a QB to read lies largely in their peripheral vision. Yes a big part of reading is seeing. See the whole field versus being dialed in on one guy, looking off that ball hawking safety over and over. One reason I wanted shotgun used here over the past decade, to let the QB stand back from the LOS and see the whole field presnap.

 

The farther back you are from the LOS, the less you have to look side to side to see all the defenders and whole field. While our QB's dropped back trying to read while back peddling sideways facing the sideline over the past decade, Brady and Manning have been standing and facing the LOS the whole time crushing defenses and winning super bowls.

 

Finally, the pistol. And sure as silk, Robert posted league leading types of numbers. I do not feel he would have posted those same numbers being under center 100% of the time like in previous years. Just like Manning and Brady would not.  Why make your QB backpeddle sideways on every passing play. I assume it gets tiring on them. Let them stay rested and focused on the past at hand, reading the defense.

[MartinC]

Thanks OP.  Very informative post.

 

I think the ability of a QB to read lies largely in their peripheral vision. Yes a big part of reading is seeing. See the whole field versus being dialed in on one guy, looking off that ball hawking safety over and over.

Totally agree with you here - peripheral vision is key. Seeing color! Also once you have keyed the safety and confirmed your coverage your then not looking at defenders your looking at areas you want to throw. Remember most passes are timing based so your anticipating and throwing before the break. You want to make sure that the area your going to throw is clean NOT looking at defenders.

One reason I wanted shotgun used here over the past decade, to let the QB stand back from the LOS and see the whole field presnap.

 

The farther back you are from the LOS, the less you have to look side to side to see all the defenders and whole field. While our QB's dropped back trying to read while back peddling sideways facing the sideline over the past decade, Brady and Manning have been standing and facing the LOS the whole time crushing defenses and winning super bowls.

 

Finally, the pistol. And sure as silk, Robert posted league leading types of numbers. I do not feel he would have posted those same numbers being under center 100% of the time like in previous years. Just like Manning and Brady would not.  Why make your QB backpeddle sideways on every passing play. I assume it gets tiring on them. Let them stay rested and focused on the past at hand, reading the defense.

The shotgun does improve completion percentages - the numbers show that. I'm personally not sure that's because it makes the read any easier though. One of the things I did not like personally about shotgun was that I had to take my eye off the coverage post snap to catch the snap. You normally backpeddle in shotgun as well as under centre and any QB who is getting fatigued from drop back has big conditioning issues!

[darrelgreenie]

NOTE: Long meandering post follows veers a little of topic into a general discussion of our passing game and Robert

 

 

Like you stated the passing game last year was simple. Not only because of the heavy use of play-action but the overall design of the passing game. Meaning we didn't use much pure drop back passing and when we did the concepts and routes were very simple.

 

For whatever reason when those facts are stated Redskin nation takes it as a personal affront against Robert.

But, for me I don't care that the passing game was simple because it was devastingly effective. The aim of an offense should be efficiency not complexity. I believe Kyle/Mike should be lauded for the efficiency, simplicity and explosiveness of the passing game.

 

Personally I believe the reason fans gets all hurt over the simplistic nature of the passing game is because they wrongly assume (or believe media) that because the passing game was simple the Griffin cannot execute a more complex scheme. I think that couldn't be further from the truth. Imo right now Wilson is a more polished rhythm drop back passer then Griffin because Wilson did more rhythm drop back passing then Griffin. However; that doesn't mean that Griffin can't or won't reach his level.

 

I partially blame Rich Campbell and Kevin Sheehan who via the radio seem to foster the belief that (a) Baylor didn't have a route tree ( that the Baylor passing/Griffin didn't have nor make reads. I asked them both to elaborate. I got big timed by Campbell and only received a response from Sheehan:

 

edromeo‏@kbrizzles9 Aug

@Rich_Campbell Before I over react I thought I would ask: What do you mean when you say Baylor's offense doesn't have a route tree?

 

Sent: Fri 8/9/2013 12:42 PM
To: Kevin Sheehan; thomloverro@yahoo.com
Subject: Sports Fix Feedback from ESPN 980 WebsiteYour comments:: Baylor runs a spread zone read offense. Their passing game meshes spread concepts (air riad think Mike Leach, Dana Holgorsen) with zone read.[newline][newline]Since when did spread offenses stop having route trees or QB reads/progressions (which is probably what you meant anyway)

 

RE: Sports Fix Feedback from ESPN 980 Website

FROM Kevin Sheehan TO You

Show Details

 

 

Robert said he had no route tree and didn't have progressions.

 

Kevin Sheehan

ESPN 980

 

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But to me both notions are patently absurd to me. I don't even know what the statement 'doesn't have a route tree' means.

We've both broken down Baylor film and maybe I'm wrong but I saw an offense that had reads, they're running a variation of Air Raid which has reads. And I don't see how an offense wouldn't have 'a route tree'.

 

But, point being is that Campbell seems to believe that the reason why read-optoin was used was in some part because Griffin lacked in the drop back passing game. Sheehan has expressed the thought that Cousin is better at running 'traditional dropback game' then Griffin.

 

I think both those notions are false. I think read-option and hence the simple passing game were used because (a) its awesome ( our pass protection is ill-equiped to handle a lot of straight drop back passing. (Yeah I mean Tyler Polumbus)

 

I think with adequate pass protection the evolution of our offense will be shift from compressed base personnel to more spread formations but will still feature pistol and a sprinkle of read-option.

 

Hail

[MartinC]

I think read-option and hence the simple passing game were used because (a) its awesome ( our pass protection is ill-equiped to handle a lot of straight drop back passing. (Yeah I mean Tyler Polumbus) I think with adequate pass protection the evolution of our offense will be shift from compressed base personnel to more spread formations but will still feature pistol and a sprinkle of read-option. Hail

I think our trouble providing pass protection without the benefit of play action is the single biggest thing which will hold back the development of our passing game. Like you I see Polumbus as the glaring weak spot on our line and Chester sometimes has his issues in pass pro as well at RG. Trent being the stud he is allows us to slide protections to our right to help, but if Trent goes down for any period it could get very ugly when we get into obvious passing situations either on downs or because we are playing catch up.

[darrelgreenie]

I think our trouble providing pass protection without the benefit of play action is the single biggest thing which will hold back the development of our passing game. Like you I see Polumbus as the glaring weak spot on our line and Chester sometimes has his issues in pass pro as well at RG. Trent being the stud he is allows us to slide protections to our right to help, but if Trent goes down for any period it could get very ugly when we get into obvious passing situations either on downs or because we are playing catch up.

 

 

What do you think about the Baylor passing game?

[MartinC]

What do you think about the Baylor passing game?

1. They clearly used a passing tree. It may not have been in a play book as such but they had to have a shorthand for the routes that would be run and they would be based on the standard patterns just about everyone uses.

2. There were reads. Normally not complex ones - half field high low and there would not be a lot of progressions - but it's impossible to have any kind of successful passing offense without some kind of reads.

To bring us back to the OP of this thread you can make the same claim about simplified reads versus the NFL about most College offenses as well hence the development curve for a young QB in developing into a top notch NFL QB.

[darrelgreenie]

I think Griff came in the same boat as any other spread/air riad QB.

There are elements of the spread passing game (like the quick game concepts) that translate better to an NFL passing game then some of the more 'traditional' offenses.

[MartinC]

I don't think he's any further behind then any other spread/air raid QB.

Nor do I. As I said in the OP you can find multiple examples of RGIII going through progressions last season - it's just something he is going to get better at as he is asked to do more in the passing game and as he gains experience.

[RiverboatGambler]

It means obtaining an OL that can provide the necessary pass protection. Whoever is back there under center this season is going to be running for their life on a regular basis.

[RandyHolt]

martin I do agree in gun the QB has to take his eyes off the defense. I think it is offset though. Remeber Campbell ackwardly squatting down under Rabach. While he didnt have to take his eyes off the field, his perspective was much lower than a shotgun QB. And of course, was at risk from getting stepped on by Rabach, which happened 2 or 3 times within a few games. And the guard too.

 

I remember Gibbs didn't like gun because of the rare gun over the QBs head. But we have all seen centers and QB lose the ball when under center too.

 

We can say a QB was going through his progressions, but all of us did that naturally in the hood growing up.  If RG3 was moving his head left and right in college, he was going through progressions. Its that simple. His coach may not have had him look long or short first, but who cares. He had options in the passing game and was very successful in finding the open WR. 

 

A stiff coach may demand he watch one WR first, but then you take the feel of the game out of the QB. A QB may know a corner has a guys number and is going to jam him. And has all day. Do we want our QB to focus on that read at all?  That is where the mandatory progression fails. 

 

Until recently coaches foolishly tried to make QB's into the QB they wanted, not embrace the QB they had. Its why so many of them busted and are backups now, and young QBs are taking over the league. Coaches now use QB's to their strengths and that keeps the game "simple".

 

 

It is the coaches that are no longder dumb. Its nice to finally see.  They had been far too long hard headed and stubborn about their over sized playbook, and creating the perfect QB to fit into it. More often then not, they failed. And the QB always took the blame.

[MartinC]

You know in the OP I talked about attacking the best located safety? This from John Keims observation deck on ESPN ....

"Anyway, against Buffalo, Rex Grossman spotted the safety in a spot that left him vulnerable – up near the line on the right side. Typically, the safety would have been where receiver Pierre Garcon was headed on his slant. Grossman knew what to do"

[RandyHolt]

good catch martin.

 

I wonder what other critical presnap reads there are, after locating the safety.

 

I assume another key presnap read is the distance of the corners off the wideouts, and maybe try to look for man vs zone, even with all the disguising done. I think that is primarily a combo of the entire D. I am curious which QB has the highest success rate determining man vs zone correctly.

 

Reading a heavy bltz look / switching to the hot route seems obvious, but also is easy to see. We can all see that from the TV.

 

In gun/pistol, they take their eye off the D momentarily to catch the ball. How long does the snap take? The D guys have x amount of time to move. Lets say .5 seconds. Knowing where they were and where they are now .5 seconds into the play, is a key read as well.  Post snap is where perifpheral vision really kicks in. Short term memory as well. I wonder if any QBs at all can read the D as the ball is in the air back to them. I highly doubt it, but maybe a little bit... lets call it "feel". Maybe it does not hurt some to look away. Like in a memory game. Some dominate while others will struggle.

[MartinC]

In terms of pre snap reads my suggestion below (I'm sure it's more complex at NFL level)

1. Location of the safeties - is there anyone in the middle of the field. Gives me a clue as to Cover1 or 3 versus Cover 2 or 4

2. Number of defenders to each side of the field - number of defenders versus number of receivers. Where am I most likely to find single coverage I can attack or be able to flood a zone.

3. Look at how the DBs are set up. Cushion and leverage. Standard cushion in man is 2-3 yards in zone 8-10 yards (though defenses of course give you false reads hence the need to recon firm post snap). Leverage is how the defender is set up relative to the receiver, if I have a slant to one side and the defender is shading to the outside that's a good read for me for example.

4. Use motion - how does the defense react. If a DB moves with a the receiver that's a man coverage key (though again beware false reads).

5. Check for blitz and be aware where your hot reads are.

There will then be reads on specific defenders depending on the play call. Again defenses know these reads as well as the offense and will try to disguise coverage and give you false reads so its vital to confirm what you think you see pre snap post snap.

[darrelgreenie]

Good stuff Marty-

 

^^After you do all of the above you decide where you want to go with the ball first/ based on the weak areas in the zone or your best match-up in man-to-man

 

You also think about contigencies IF the defense is in Cover 3 instead of Cover 2 I'll throw the hitch to receiver X instead of the slant to Y etc...

 

Post snap you have to watch for a rotation or change in the defense: you must 'confirm' your pre-snap read unless your going to throw 'blind' into a coverage

 

One of the reason I like spread formations and especially the combination of spread+uptempo is because they limit the coverages a defense can use and force them to play 'known' coverages which should allow any good OC to attack the holes in the coverage/ or weak players within the scheme

For some reason my replies are appearing before your posts?

[darrelgreenie]

Thought this would be good time to bump this thread.

The OP touches on and explain some topics that have since become more mainstream.