How good is the Redskins training staff concerning player injuries and recovery time?

[Rhodus333]

So while waiting to hear whether Garcon would be suiting up before yesterday's game, my friend and I got to talking about the training and medical staff of the Redskins, and how they stacked up compared to other medical staffs around the league. With players like Adrian Peterson, C.J. Spiller actually exceeding expectations and getting back out on the field before they were expected to, we started discussing how things like that don't seem to ever happen on our team.

We both recognized that due to the extremely diverse nature of both sports injuries and the individual athletes who sustain them, its probably next to impossible to get a fair comparison of how the Redskins staff holds up compared to others around the league. My friend, a former college athlete, suggested one way to examine the issue would be to look at a players level of success after returning from an injury, and whether that individual was able to continue performing at a high level or continued being hampered throughout the rest of their career.

Thinking along those guidelines, it seemed to both of us that the players on our team in recent history seem to not be as durable as other teams, and that it takes them longer to fully recover from injuries, if they do at all. We started listing Redskins in recent memory who were sidelined by injuries and seemed to take longer to recover than originally anticipated, or who never really seemed the same after coming back. Off the tops of our heads the list included

Roy Helu

Tim Hightower

Chris Cooley

Jamaal Brown

Pierre Garcon

Malcom Kelly

Shawn Springs

Laron Landry

Albert Haynesworth

Brian Orakpo

Again, i have extremely limited information regarding how our staff stacks up to others across the league, but i would assume that with one of the largest payrolls we would make this an area of emphasis, but i do remember reading articles about players in the past complaining about weightroom facilities, the conditioning programs, and rehab issues in the past.

Basically I'm looking for any information or insight anyone at ES might have to explain why in recent years our players seem to not be able to hold up on the field to the same level as other teams. Do you think it has anything to do with our training staff? Are there any stats that are examined when choosing new personnel? How much changeover have we had when new coaches come in? Is it merely the fact that we play in the notoriously tough NFC east? Is it because we had such poor positional depth in recent years that we were putting players on the field that simply werent physically prepared for a 16 game season?

Any insight would be appreciated, haven't really seen anything on here that has addressed this issue, but with two of our front 7 already out for the year, our starting wide reciever taking way longer to recover from a foot injury than anyone would have guessed, and a rookie franchise QB taking some vicious hits week in and week out, it begs the question

How good is the Redskins training staff? Could they be better? And should we as the fanbase be concerned with their production and track record in recent years.

[KCClybun]

1.) Malcolm Kelly wasn't healthy coming out of college. Everyone knew he had no knees and would deal with hamstring issues and leg injuries his whole career, IF he ever played. Vinny made the calculated/stupid risk of drafting Kelly based on upside. There was really nothing the training staff could do to help Malcolm Kelly.

2.) The story of Dirty 30 has been counted and recounted. Basically we offered him an alternative treatment so he wouldn't have to get surgery. When that didn't take, the Redskins recommended surgery. Dirty 30 didn't want to get surgery, so he went off by himself and got PRP treatment, which wouldn't fix his injury. Then he ****ed, moaned and complained after he got a hamstring injury in camp that the training staff was the problem, when really his legs are just messed up. Then he came back and hurt himself again. Dirty needs to lay off the needle, basically. Training staff tried to help him out, but he wanted to do things his own way.

3.) Haynesworth was hardly every legitimately hurt. He was just lazy and unmotivated. Don't think you can pin anything wrong with Haynesworth on the training camp.

4.) J.B's hip injury happened before he came here. Short of a minor miracle I don't know what we could have done. Dude hurt himself in Gassers after looking in good shape during OTAs and minicamps.

5.) Hightower's ACL came on bad turf while playing. He was a free agent this offseason which basically meant he was sort of rehabbing on his own without our training staff. Then he got here, and the knee still wasn't quite right, which is why we released him and why we signed Grant instead of him.

6.) Not sure how the training staff can take better care of a pec injury.

7.) Helu always had little injuries here and there in college. It's been the same in the pros. It's why Mike has never wanted to put the whole brunt of the offense on him. Tried to tough out the turf toe and the Achillies injuries and couldn't do it.

The tales of our training staff being bad are overplayed and silly, mainly because we used to get one or two injuries and it'd basically destroy an entire part of our team. That's not the case as much anymore. The Redskins facilities are a little dated (to say the very least), but look at the Giants; almost brand new, state of the art facilities and they have 9 people on IR. The Falcons have 6, the Patriots have 9. Injuries happen all over the NFL, and some guys recover from said injuries better than others.

But tales of our training staff being inept aren't exactly true.

[Kostaskins]

well landry is a regular for the jets.. so what the hell is going on with our staff !!!????!!

[Rhodus333]

With Haynesworth, i was more thinking of his decision to use outside trainers rather than the staff here for offseason workouts. Similarly for Landry, with his decisions to not listen to our doctors advice about the surgeries, do you think hes the type of person who would have made that decision regardless of where he played or because he specifically didnt like what this team was offering him. Also, wasn't there a story about how they told carlos rogers to get his eyesight examined and he didnt want to get it looked at, but then when he went to San Francisco they told him the same thing and he got it corrected? (that could be completley wrong but i thought i remembered reading that on here)

I also remember that it was a big deal in shanahans first year that other than haynesworth they had 100 percent attendance for offseason workouts. In the past i know certain players used to go to specialists during the offseason which is why im wondering how much personnel change there is to the medical staff during coaching changes. Did players feel more comfortable with Shanahans doctors than say, Zorn's crew or are they the same. Just curious

Jamall Brown was injured before he came here but with a full offseason in our program it just seemed like he just kept having setback after setback. Combined with all the grief he was getting about using yoga and pilates for the hip it just makes me wonder what his health would be if he were being eated by a different squad. Same with Kelly. We knew he had injuries when he came in but after what three years you would hope he would be able to get on the field more. Again its all hypothetical but i have to wonder if he could have been more productive on another team ( one that possibly kept him out longer to heal rath than trying to get him back on the field prematurely)

[KCClybun]

Malcolm Kelly wasn't even on most team's draft boards because of how bad his knees were. He had like a 5th-7th round grade on him, at best. Like I said, it was a minor miracle Kelly could play football at all, and it's really hard to play football when you've got a degenerative knee problem and hamstring issues. Vinny took the risk and it backfired.

We didn't try to rush Kelly on the field. Kelly barely played his rookie year, was ineffective in his second year, and then he hurt his hamstring on the first day of camp once Mike was bought in, and then hurt himself again in training camp after having a clean bill of health. In no way did we try to rush Kelly, or anyone else for that matter, back out n the field. It's hard to say we rushed someone onto the field when they get hurt the first day of camp.

To my knowledge, LaRon is still getting outside help, which is why the Jets have him sit out of practice at least once a week. I expect that number to increase. Again; Haynesworth was never hurt, he was just lazy and didn't want to work out in the offseason. And Los wanted out pretty much as soon as Gibbs left. Our training staff can only do so much; ultimately some decisions are left up to the players.

[steve09ru]

add moss, smoot and mcintosh to the list of past players also

Our strength and conditioning program has seemed horrible for years now - hamstrings and tweaks tend to take much longer than the league average (I don't know what # that is but it beats the hell out of our #'s)

It's not the "they had injury concerns before" - it's they keep tweaking hamstrings, quads, etc. that seem to never heal. It just doesn't make sense that they can't overcome and play with these injuries when you have players around the league playing on these same type of injuries week in and week out while ours just sit on the sidelines for 4-6 weeks

[Rhodus333]

We didn't try to rush Kelly on the field. Kelly barely played his rookie year, was ineffective in his second year, and then he hurt his hamstring on the first day of camp once Mike was bought in, and then hurt himself again in training camp after having a clean bill of health.

Again; Haynesworth was never hurt, he was just lazy and didn't want to work out in the offseason. And Los wanted out pretty much as soon as Gibbs left. Our training staff can only do so much; ultimately some decisions are left up to the players.

Yeah kelly getting reinjured after getting the go ahead from the staff was what i was referring to. I get that he was a big risk going in just kinda sucks that it got like immediayley reinjured right after being cleared. And with haynesworth i just remember they wanted him to lose weight and he went and did his own thing and came back like 30 pounds lighter but not healthier at all or in necessarily better shape

[KCClybun]

add moss, smoot and mcintosh to the list of past players also

Our strength and conditioning program has seemed horrible for years now - hamstrings and tweaks tend to take much longer than the league average (I don't know what # that is but it beats the hell out of our #'s)

It's not the "they had injury concerns before" - it's they keep tweaking hamstrings, quads, etc. that seem to never heal. It just doesn't make sense that they can't overcome and play with these injuries when you have players around the league playing on these same type of injuries week in and week out while ours just sit on the sidelines for 4-6 weeks

Can you name a single player that had been sidelined with a hamstring for 4-6 weeks?

I can think of one recently; Ryan Torain.

Other teams deal with just as many injuries. When you only pay attention to one football team one tends to lose perspective.

[#1HIT]

If you get injured with the redskins theres a good chance your career is done or you'll never fully recover.

[heatman28]

The staff has been absolutely terrible ever since Gibbs left!

[steve09ru]

Can you name a single player that had been sidelined with a hamstring for 4-6 weeks?

I can think of one recently; Ryan Torain.

Other teams deal with just as many injuries. When you only pay attention to one football team one tends to lose perspective.

It was an exaggeration and I understand noticing it more when you keep up with 1 team. However, it just seems there are a lot of hamstring injuries and other strains/pulls that sit our players out longer (recurring injuries that seem to just stick rather than heal).

I get the ones you can't help but the conditioning ones baffle me - maybe it was in the past few years (not within the last season or 2) that it seemed every wr, rb, corner and safety would tweak a hammy and have that same injury coming up week in and week out

[LaxinFish29]

I've noticed two things in this thread.

People have taken the time to back things up with facts.

People respond by saying they suck because...they suck.