Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) Glad you are admitting Obamacare is stuffing the pockets of Corporate CEO's in the medical industryl Glad you're sticking to making things up and pretending I said them, instead of actually saying something, yourself. But let's just examine your assertion that the average insurance company in the US is raising insurance premiums by 40%, and giving the money to the company's CEO. If only it weren't for that pesky Obamacare mandate, that at least 80% of the money they take in, must be paid out as benefits. A ratio which, supposedly, many insurance companies aren't meeting, now. So, again: I wonder what they'll be doing with an extra 40% from everybody in the state. Edited January 13, 2014 by Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Glad you are admitting Obamacare is stuffing the pockets of Corporate CEO's in the medical industryl But,but,,,,they are limiting profit %......while expanding the pie by mandate medical spending is not going down.....sucker born every minute Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Glad you're sticking to making things up and pretending I said them, instead of actually saying something, yourself. But let's just examine your assertion that the average insurance company in the US is raising insurance premiums by 40%, and giving the money to the company's CEO. If only it weren't for that pesky Obamacare mandate, that at least 80% of the money they take in, must be paid out as benefits. A ratio which, supposedly, many insurance companies aren't meeting, now. So, again: I wonder what they'll be doing with an extra 40% from everybody in the state. I will give you a hint, they are laying off people and getting rid of a whole career field of benefits brokers. A point that might be lost on you. Quality service be damned! But,but,,,,they are limiting profit %......while expanding the pie by mandate medical spending is not going down.....sucker born every minute You mean limiting profit on an expanding pie means I make more money? The hell you say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I will give you a hint, they are laying off people and getting rid of a whole career field of benefits brokers. A point that might be lost on you. Quality service be damned! (Laying people off doesn't cost money. It saves money. (At least in the short run.)) So, I'll ask you again: What are they spending all the extra money on? (We both know the answer. I'm simply experimenting to see how far you'll try to twist yourself, to avoid actually admitting what we both already know.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (Laying people off doesn't cost money. It saves money. (At least in the short run.)) Bringing the worst of corporatism to to your healthcare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (We both know the answer. I'm simply experimenting to see how far you'll try to twist yourself, to avoid actually admitting what we both already know.) Well I would give you the answer if you will listen. Ears up...KK??? I buy my benefits from a broker. The broker doesn't work for the insurance company. The broker gets commissions on sales. My broker is concerned her whole career field is done. Brokers do a lot of splainin Lucy. So we just wiped them out. I am also going to be very careful as to what expenses I have in my business. You know those pesky salaries that cost money that I now don't have because my profit is limited? I could detail how this works, which I assume I will have to but I hope you can figure it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 So we just wiped them out. It's for the greater good, besides they might score big consulting on fixing the ACA website. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 It's for the greater good, besides they might score big consulting on fixing the ACA website. I might have to ship my call centers to India because I can no longer afford to pay salaries under the new plan. You know limiting me to spending 80% of my money as benefits means I have to give lesser services to my insurees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Bringing the worst of corporatism to to your healthcare. Yeah, I know how you hate having corporations involved in health care. Damn that Obama and his agenda to ruin our perfectly good socialized medicine system by imposing capitalism on it. ---------- I know it's a vain hope, but if a miracle should occur, and you should become tired of spinning and dodging, you could take a shot at answering the question I'm asking, if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I know it's a vain hope, but if a miracle should occur, and you should become tired of spinning and dodging, you could take a shot at answering the question I'm asking, if you want. I just want you to answer my question, what happens to the employees that the insurance company can't afford because of the 80% mandate? Lay it out my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Well I would give you the answer if you will listen. Ears up...KK??? I buy my benefits from a broker. The broker doesn't work for the insurance company. The broker gets commissions on sales. My broker is concerned her whole career field is done. Brokers do a lot of splainin Lucy. So we just wiped them out. I am also going to be very careful as to what expenses I have in my business. You know those pesky salaries that cost money that I now don't have because my profit is limited? I could detail how this works, which I assume I will have to but I hope you can figure it out. Yes, you've now tried twice to dodge the question "What will the insurance companies spend that extra money on?", by trying to change the subject to "What are they cutting spending on?" And then tried to cover up the fact that you're running from the question by trying to be insulting. Unfortunately, that's not the question. You're the CEO of Acme Insurance. Last year, your company took in $10B. They paid out $8B of it, in the form of medical benefits to their customers. They ran the entire rest of the company on the other $2B. The people who answer the phones, the computer department, the accountants, the people who trim the bushes in front of the building, and your salary. Next year, you're raising everybody's rates by 40%. Next year, your company will have $14B. (Actually, they might have more, since supposedly more people will have insurance. But that number's hard to predict, so let's skip it.) What are you going to spend the extra $4B on? Hint: The answer is not in the form of "Well, we used to spend this much on X, and we've decided to eliminate it entirely" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 (edited) (Laying people off doesn't cost money. It saves money. (At least in the short run.)) So, I'll ask you again: What are they spending all the extra money on? (We both know the answer. I'm simply experimenting to see how far you'll try to twist yourself, to avoid actually admitting what we both already know.) Compliance costs,mandated benefit costs(w/accompanied administrative markup ) .....the ACA does not make ins cheaper or lower healthcare spending. The leveraging of care providers savings will be replaced with more bureaucrats .....enjoy I won't even get into the ins bailout costs sure to come from this circus act. added You know your ins co % markup does not include what all is in the total premiums right? it sounds so simple the way you frame it Edited January 13, 2014 by twa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I just want you to answer my question, what happens to the employees that the insurance company can't afford because of the 80% mandate? Lay it out my friend. And no, trying to dodge the question by inventing some other question (and one that's based on an untrue premise, at that) isn't answering the question, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Compliance costs,mandated benefit costs(w/accompanied administrative markup ) "Mandated benefit costs"? What are these "benefits" you speak of? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 "Mandated benefit costs"? What are these "benefits" you speak of? I don't have time to educate you....time will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 Yes, you've now tried twice to dodge the question "What will the insurance companies spend that extra money on?", by trying to change the subject to "What are they cutting spending on?" And then tried to cover up the fact that you're running from the question by trying to be insulting. Unfortunately, that's not the question. You're the CEO of Acme Insurance. Last year, your company took in $10B. They paid out $8B of it, in the form of medical benefits to their customers. They ran the entire rest of the company on the other $2B. The people who answer the phones, the computer department, the accountants, the people who trim the bushes in front of the building, and your salary. Next year, you're raising everybody's rates by 40%. Next year, your company will have $14B. (Actually, they might have more, since supposedly more people will have insurance. But that number's hard to predict, so let's skip it.) What are you going to spend the extra $4B on? Hint: The answer is not in the form of "Well, we used to spend this much on X, and we've decided to eliminate it entirely" You are missing the forest for the trees. Are you serious? Insurance companies now have to spend 80% on medical costs. So that means they have LESS money to spend on overhead. I will give you an example. Lets say my company makes $1 million dollars a year. Lets say my company goal is a profit of $350,000 a year or 35%. Lets assume I bring in free and clear $500,00 a year and I spend $150,000 a year on overhead personnel to support customer service and quality. Now Obamacare says I can only make 20% in profit. What do I do? Now I take in $1 million dollars. Of the $500,000 I have to send $300,000 in rebate checks to my insurees to meet the 80%. Well guess what, that leaves out $150,000 I spent last year in expenses for overhead employees. I guess you won't get it. But it's par for the course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I don't have time to educate you....time will You had time to make five posts, trying to avoid actually saying what you reluctantly tried to minimize by hiding it behind an attempted deflection. Still, I guess I should count my win. I assumed it would be two pages, and MAYBE, after that, CHIP would reluctantly admit the truth he's trying furiously to avoid mentioning. I assumed that you NEVER would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 he also overlooks your rates now include more than premiums subject to the % http://ahip.org/uploadedImages/Content/Epub/Wyman_Report/charts.jpg You had time to make five posts, trying to avoid actually saying what you reluctantly tried to minimize by hiding it behind an attempted deflection.Still, I guess I should count my win. I assumed it would be two pages, and MAYBE, after that, CHIP would reluctantly admit the truth he's trying furiously to avoid mentioning.I assumed that you NEVER would. You are welcome to your win....I hope you enjoy it.....along with the higher bills and struggling economy. Keep Fiddling Nero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You are missing the forest for the trees. Are you serious? You're trying to run away from answering a question which we both know the answer to. But feel free to keep it up. Everybody in the audience (if there is anybody left, after months of the same old, same old, in this thread) knows the answer, too. And watching you try so hard not to say it has got to be doing wonders for your credibility. (If there's any of that left). 80% of this increased money the insurance companies are supposedly raking in, is required, by law, to be spent on WHAT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You're trying to run away from answering a question which we both know the answer to. But feel free to keep it up. Everybody in the audience (if there is anybody left, after months of the same old, same old, in this thread) knows the answer, too. And watching you try so hard not to say it has got to be doing wonders for your credibility. (If there's any of that left). 80% of this increased money the insurance companies are supposedly raking in, is required, by law, to be spent on WHAT? I told you what it was spent for in my last post and you IGNORED the lost jobs because of expenses. Talking about running away, I explained it to you and you IGNORED everything I posted. Companies don't run on 20% profit. You can ignore the facts if you choose, but you wont win in this argument. I LOVE how you ignore the tough sticking points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 80% of this increased money the insurance companies are supposedly raking in, is required, by law, to be spent on WHAT?Judging from the pharmacology support http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Mevw-qwxqM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 I told you what it was spent for in my last post and you IGNORED the lost jobs because of expenses. Talking about running away, I explained it to you and you IGNORED everything I posted. Companies don't run on 20% profit. You can ignore the facts if you choose, but you wont win in this argument. I LOVE how you ignore the tough sticking points. You haven't presented any facts. (Well, none relevant to the question). The claim is made that insurance premiums are going up 40%, all over the place. (A claim which I find hard to believe. But I'm willing to pretend to believe it, rather than argue it). Where's the extra money going? "Well. They're going to lay off thousands of employees" is not an answer. True or false: 80% of that money is going to pay INSURANCE BENEFITS TO CUSTOMERS. Maybe coverage for things that weren't covered, before. (Perhaps coverage mandated by Obamacare). Maybe coverage for things that were covered, but now they're covered BETTER. But SOME kind of increased coverage. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 You haven't presented any facts. (Well, none relevant to the question). The claim is made that insurance premiums are going up 40%, all over the place. (A claim which I find hard to believe. But I'm willing to pretend to believe it, rather than argue it). Where's the extra money going? "Well. They're going to lay off thousands of employees" is not an answer. True or false: 80% of that money is going to pay INSURANCE BENEFITS TO CUSTOMERS. Maybe coverage for things that weren't covered, before. (Perhaps coverage mandated by Obamacare). Maybe coverage for things that were covered, but now they're covered BETTER. But SOME kind of increased coverage. Right? Intellectual dishonesty. Read, rinse, repeat. First off, please post where I claimed 40% insurance premiums all over the place. Intellectual dishonesty. What I did post is how the 80% rule will cause lesser service. But I didn't post anything you claimed, again intellectual dishonesty. If you want to discuss what I post, please do but don't make up your own ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 covered BETTER LOL higher premiums cancelled coverage Higher deductibles Higher co=pays Higher compliance costs Taxes on your ins my premium doubled(after getting cancelled)....only fair that I let ya'll pick up up the difference for your better coverage. Yall might need to get another job...if ya can find one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted January 13, 2014 Share Posted January 13, 2014 covered BETTER LOL higher premiums cancelled coverage Higher deductibles Higher co=pays Higher compliance costs Taxes on your ins my premium doubled(after getting cancelled)....only fair that I let ya'll pick up up the difference for your better coverage. Yall might need to get another job...if ya can find one So, again. Where's all this extra money going? At least from what I've read, BO, (Before Obamacare), the health insurance industry, as a whole, spent about 80% of what they took in, back out in benefits, and spent around 20% on overhead, operating costs, and profit. Acme Insurance took in $100B in premiums, paid out $80B in benefits, and spent $20B "running the business". Now, if you buy the myth you're trying to shovel, THE AVERAGE CONSUMER is having his rates increase by 50-100%, AND the average consumer is having their coverage grossly reduced. The myth you're pushing is that next year, the amount Acme Insurance will take in is going to go from $100B to $150B, and the amount they pay out will go from $80B to $60B. Unfortunately, if your myth were true, then at the end of the year, Acme Insurance is gonna have to write a $80B check to their customers, for overcharging them. Because, if they take in $150B in premiums, they are required by law to pay out $120B in benefits. So, you're back to dodging the fact that your own myth ISN'T POSSIBLE. If typical premiums are going up by 50%, WHERE'S THE MONEY GOING? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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