ESPN: Albert Haynesworth: I can be greatest

[Pwyl]

Makes you wonder how much sooner they could have reached this accord if Al had participated in the off-season practices, doesn't it?

[jnhay]

People care too much about what players say. You say "Shut up and play" and I say "Shut up and watch them play." Why do people hang on their every word?

[jaydogg3eb]

Some people in this thread are complete idiots.

[JoeSkins]

AH is a huge man and a player who has amazing physical ability for someone his size, however his skillset is simply not that of a 3-4 lineman.

I dont know whats so hard for people to understand, the truth is that the demands of a lineman in a 3-4 are vastly different than that of a 4-3 3 tech tackle. some players can make the switch, others cant. its more based on how they do what they do.

for instance, Alberts strength is moving forward not laterally, he is far better when playing the run on the way to the QB, his best moves are a Bullrush and and a rip to swim move that he uses with a sweet spin move, none of which are the stack and shed type moves of a 3-4 lineman. when playing two gap he gets too far upfield and sometimes gets sealed off. whats annoying about this is that we have several players who are far better suited to a 4-3 yet somehow we have been expected to buy in to the switch to a defence that we are far from suited for.

Everything you described is a matter of technique. Techniques are a subset of a player's overall skill set. Skill sets, unlike natural talent, are MADE through two things: practice and effort. Haynesworth missed a lot of both this summer. Players can be natural-born defensive linemen. However, people aren't natural-born nose tackles, they learn it. That said, I never envisioned him as a NT in the 3-4. His natural talents that allow him to do more than your average 3-4 NT is capable of on a football field. He's faster and quicker than other guys his size like Maake, which should open up new avenues for using him. That he has the natural ability to fill the role in the scheme doesn't automatically make him a good fit. He doesn't want to do it, and that means he's not going to hone the skills required to do it. He's a horse in front of a river but he isn't thirsty.

I say let him have his way and operate in space more often to make him look good and dump him in the offseason. It's obvious at this point that his attitude will never change and one solid performance against one of the worst lines in football isn't all that persuasive, especially when the very next week he makes questionable (even in context the statements just aren't smart) comments. Cut out the fat but try to package it as something else and sell it.

[Silencer6091]

Doesn't matter...he won't be here next year...

[redskins55]

OLBs in 3-4 are pretty much 4-3 DEs but just standing up.

You are very accurate with that analysis.. But Orakpo didn't play Defensive End in the 4-3 last year, he played OLB in the 4-3. Which is a totally different position and concept than OLB in the 3-4.

[Mania]

hopefully he plays really well for the rest of the year and then we can trade him for a high draft pick. Well atleast a 2nd rounder, because he's worth atleast that. Especially since 31 of the 40 million guaranteed has already been paid.

[redskins55]

I dont get all hate on AH saying he not great fit or not wanna play NT, Let be forreal what if Green bay tell Reggie White after first year with green bay, they are going to 3-4 D and they want him to play NT? What you think will happen?

I can answer that.. Reggie White would dominate at NT. People forget that in Philly Reggie played all three positions(DE,DT,NT). Joe Bugel demoted Jeff Bostic from center because he couldn't handle dominating players like Reggie White. Philly (Buddy Ryan's 46 defense) would line Reggie up as a 0 or 1 technique (NT) and dominate the interior line of scrimmage. In Green Bay if Gilbert Brown went down and they had noone else to fill the void at NT, you don't think Reggie could've got in there and played that position? c'mon man.. If your good... your just plain good!

[HailGreen28]

if he turns out to be a waste. is it all his fault?

Yes. While it's Vinny's fault for signing him, Fat Boy is fully to blame for not coming to OTAs to learn a new coaches' scheme, reporting out of shape, and even now being more interested in "getting noticed" than being a team player.

Great players adapt, overcome. Fat Boy just tries to take the money and run, then acts like he's only good enough to be a situational player.

'Course if we take his word at truth, then fine. We paid for a great DT, and only got a one dimensional system player. What a waste.

[Ryman of the North]

Everything you described is a matter of technique. Techniques are a subset of a player's overall skill set. Skill sets, unlike natural talent, are MADE through two things: practice and effort. Haynesworth missed a lot of both this summer. Players can be natural-born defensive linemen. However, people aren't natural-born nose tackles, they learn it. That said, I never envisioned him as a NT in the 3-4. His natural talents that allow him to do more than your average 3-4 NT is capable of on a football field. He's faster and quicker than other guys his size like Maake, which should open up new avenues for using him. That he has the natural ability to fill the role in the scheme doesn't automatically make him a good fit. He doesn't want to do it, and that means he's not going to hone the skills required to do it. He's a horse in front of a river but he isn't thirsty.

I say let him have his way and operate in space more often to make him look good and dump him in the offseason. It's obvious at this point that his attitude will never change and one solid performance against one of the worst lines in football isn't all that persuasive, especially when the very next week he makes questionable (even in context the statements just aren't smart) comments. Cut out the fat but try to package it as something else and sell it.

I agree except for a few key points.

a skillset is as much mental as physical but once you have reached the elite level its as much muscle memory as anything else. and I also disagree about not being natural born nosetackles. AH is a huge guy who is agile, strong, very very quick and explosive, he may actually be among the strongest players in the nfl as well, however he is a quick twitch athlete who has always based his game more on quickness than raw power. He is not sturdy and he is not squat, he is a bit fragile as well. yes he is a faster and stronger than most people but he is not a stack and shed type guy at DT and at his age he isnt gonna suddenly learn that technique when his own has worked for him his whole life and made him a hundred million.

if you just looked at his measurables you would think that he indeed would make an excellent nosetackle, however when you look at his actual skillset, the moves he uses instinctively and HOW HE PLAYS THE GAME, anyone with Dline coaching or playing experience at a level higher than high school could tell you that he would be a terrible fit at anything other than one gap attacking based on that skillset and that although he could probably play a two gap system decently based on his measurables, he would be nowhere near as effective as a one gap system (like last year when he did two gap a lot in the 40 under blache. compared to the Titans using him correctly)

the guy who brought up Reggie is being Silly,k Reggie was an HOF singular talent, period. at 6-5 and 300 pounds he also had the skillset to play anywhere on the line effectively, with him and Jerome Brown the fecals had one of the best DT/DE tandems in history and both could play inside and out. but nobody would ask Reggie to two gap when he was such a force when he does what he did in a one gap attack mode. You people have seen what AH does when turned loose and allowed to do his thing, only a moron now would say " I would rather run a 3-4 and get a 2 rounder for a guy who absolutely dominates when allowed to play his game."

if we had several people who fit the 3-4 better, I would be wrong and accept that, hell if we had more than ONE guy who ARGUABLY fit a 3-4 better I could maybe perhaps be swayed, but the only guy a 3-4 suited better without argument was a backup DE/OLB. Even Rak could arguably be better as a 4-3 End as thats where he gets most of his sacks from anyway (last year hand in dirt, this year standing up).

I think your analogy is a bit flawed as well, he is less of a horse in front of a river, it more he is a racehorse, and shanny wants to tie him to a cart.

what we should do is go back to what we are built for, run the 4-3 with some 3-4 packages like the saints do, draft a big OLB to play behind Rak to cover for his shortcomings against the run, and then use some FA money to get another DT (any decent DT will make us one of the best 40 fronts in the NFL with Rak and Carter at DE platooning with Jarmon and daniels grabbing a few reps) then we can look at getting some replacements for london in a year or two. if we stay in the thirty we just have so many holes. this decision will be my watermark for Shanny, I gotta Bruce has impressed me by not trading AH for a 4th rounder, can you imagine what a steal that would have been for the titans?

[HailGreen28]

I agree except for a few key points.

a skillset is as much mental as physical but once you have reached the elite level its as much muscle memory as anything else. and I also disagree about not being natural born nosetackles. AH is a huge guy who is agile, strong, very very quick and explosive, he may actually be among the strongest players in the nfl as well, however he is a quick twitch athlete who has always based his game more on quickness than raw power. He is not sturdy and he is not squat, he is a bit fragile as well. yes he is a faster and stronger than most people but he is not a stack and shed type guy at DT and at his age he isnt gonna suddenly learn that technique when his own has worked for him his whole life and made him a hundred million.

if you just looked at his measurables you would think that he indeed would make an excellent nosetackle, however when you look at his actual skillset, the moves he uses instinctively and HOW HE PLAYS THE GAME, anyone with Dline coaching or playing experience at a level higher than high school could tell you that he would be a terrible fit at anything other than one gap attacking based on that skillset and that although he could probably play a two gap system decently based on his measurables, he would be nowhere near as effective as a one gap system (like last year when he did two gap a lot in the 40 under blache. compared to the Titans using him correctly)

the guy who brought up Reggie is being Silly,k Reggie was an HOF singular talent, period. at 6-5 and 300 pounds he also had the skillset to play anywhere on the line effectively, with him and Jerome Brown the fecals had one of the best DT/DE tandems in history and both could play inside and out. but nobody would ask Reggie to two gap when he was such a force when he does what he did in a one gap attack mode. You people have seen what AH does when turned loose and allowed to do his thing, only a moron now would say " I would rather run a 3-4 and get a 2 rounder for a guy who absolutely dominates when allowed to play his game."

if we had several people who fit the 3-4 better, I would be wrong and accept that, hell if we had more than ONE guy who ARGUABLY fit a 3-4 better I could maybe perhaps be swayed, but the only guy a 3-4 suited better without argument was a backup DE/OLB. Even Rak could arguably be better as a 4-3 End as thats where he gets most of his sacks from anyway (last year hand in dirt, this year standing up).

I think your analogy is a bit flawed as well, he is less of a horse in front of a river, it more he is a racehorse, and shanny wants to tie him to a cart.

what we should do is go back to what we are built for, run the 4-3 with some 3-4 packages like the saints do, draft a big OLB to play behind Rak to cover for his shortcomings against the run, and then use some FA money to get another DT (any decent DT will make us one of the best 40 fronts in the NFL with Rak and Carter at DE platooning with Jarmon and daniels grabbing a few reps) then we can look at getting some replacements for london in a year or two. if we stay in the thirty we just have so many holes. this decision will be my watermark for Shanny, I gotta Bruce has impressed me by not trading AH for a 4th rounder, can you imagine what a steal that would have been for the titans?

Orakpo played SAM last season. And he got 11 sacks last season, he's already got 7 sacks so far this season. We may have lost a 4-3 end in Carter, but gained a 3-4 OLB in Alexander. Rocky and Fletch are fine. And the secondary is fine. Improved in fact, with Landry's resurgence, though that's due to scheming not related to the 3-4.

Haslett once said (AFAIK) "I think Haynesworth would be fearsome over a guard or center." As far as the "Okie" defence we supposedly run only a third of the time, I understand lateral movement is a foreign concept to some big men like Fat Boy, but if he can swallow his pride and practice, he can help set up those third and longs where he can pin his ears back and go.

[flock53]

He better just play or end up being a Tracy Rocker or Jimmy Kenedy

[SirClintonPortis]

Orakpo played SAM last season. And he got 11 sacks last season, he's already got 7 sacks so far this season. We may have lost a 4-3 end in Carter, but gained a 3-4 OLB in Alexander. Rocky and Fletch are fine. And the secondary is fine. Improved in fact, with Landry's resurgence, though that's due to scheming not related to the 3-4.

Haslett once said (AFAIK) "I think Haynesworth would be fearsome over a guard or center." As far as the "Okie" defence we supposedly run only a third of the time, I understand lateral movement is a foreign concept to some big men like Fat Boy, but if he can swallow his pride and practice, he can help set up those third and longs where he can pin his ears back and go.

Orakpo also played DE part-time and got most of those sacks from that position.

[HailGreen28]

Orakpo also played DE part-time and got most of those sacks from that position.

Well, I think it's more accurate to say that he was blitzing as an LB then, same as he's doing now, only in a more aggressive scheme today.

[Ryman of the North]

Well, I think it's more accurate to say that he was blitzing as an LB then, same as he's doing now, only in a more aggressive scheme today.

its actually more accurate to say he got the bulk of his sacks last year wirth his hand in the dirt, and this year coming from the DE spot playing a standup technique.

[HailGreen28]

its actually more accurate to say he got the bulk of his sacks last year wirth his hand in the dirt, and this year coming from the DE spot playing a standup technique.

Yeah, I think you're right.

And he's on pace to get more this year, than last year......:evilg:

[Ryman of the North]

Yeah, I think you're right.

And he's on pace to get more this year, than last year......:evilg:

Yeah, and if we continue using the four fronts thhis defence could start actually stopping people AND get turnovers and sacks. One thing that makes me feel better is that Rak really does seem to be branching out and learning some new moves.

[Frostx08]

I'm quite surprised at the venomous comments on here....anyone who's seen me comment on Al knows I've been a strong critic of the way he's behaved before. But he played well....so as Skins fans why are we still holding a grudge and being so rude about it? He's been doing his best in Nickel packages..not necessarily the 3-4. He's simply saying he doesn't think he's the best for it...he's admitting a flaw and I myself have made similar comments for other situations. It's not saying he won't try, it's him pointing out what he honestly believes his strengths are

Now of course I still believe he should just do his best no matter what the situation and I hope he'll do that. But there's nothing wrong with admitting a flaw and watching the video that's what it sounded like