Tyron Biggums Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Joe Bugel: The cheapest players on the field are O linemen and D linemen overall. We have seen what Haynesworth has done for the Defensive side of the ball. Take a look at what Bugel has had to work with.? Insert jokes here: Vinny does have an eye for Talent just on the Defensive side of the ball. I honestly feel like the Redskins could be back to contention for it all: if they would feed Bugel some talent. Its hard not to crush Vin everyother thread when you watch "scrubs" try to play O line! Come on Dan we have seen Bugel help create some of the greatest O Line units. Stop wasting the best talent on the team! How else can you win 3 Superbowls with 3 different quarterback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SIXX99 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Good point. The only way to get offensive linemen is to draft them and that is something that we can seem to do for some reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Good point. The only way to get offensive linemen is to draft them and that is something that we can seem to do for some reason. I hate to be part of someone losing a job. But Vin has to go: Not sure how much shelf life Joe Bugel has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Actually O-Linemen and D-Linemen are the 2 most expensive positions to fill besides a QB. Cheapest would be safeties and TE's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 JoeVinny does have an eye for Talent just on the Defensive side of the ball. ? Prove it. He signed Haynesworth??? Wow, what a surprise, how could he tell he was going to be good??? Vinny's "eye for talent" needs tri-focals. Him compared to other GMs... :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Prove it. He signed Haynesworth??? Wow, what a surprise, how could he tell he was going to be good???Vinny's "eye for talent" needs tri-focals. Him compared to other GMs... :doh: Sean Taylor. There I proved it: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Clinton Portis and Santana Moss are tight with the owner and the club isn't going to go out and spend money on potential replacements for them or guys that will come in and challenge their 'leadership'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Prove it. He signed Haynesworth??? Wow, what a surprise, how could he tell he was going to be good???Vinny's "eye for talent" needs tri-focals. Him compared to other GMs... :doh: I do not compare Vinny to other GMs. I think it is pretty clear that Vinny is out classed when it comes to both sides of the ball talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandman69 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Prove it. He signed Haynesworth??? Wow, what a surprise, how could he tell he was going to be good???Vinny's "eye for talent" needs tri-focals. Him compared to other GMs... :doh: You can't find the talent that he has found on defense through the draft and FA? Then sir, perhaps you are the one that needs tri-focals... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Clinton Portis and Santana Moss are tight with the owner and the club isn't going to go out and spend money on potential replacements for them or guys that will come in and challenge their 'leadership'. I don't know the personal relationship of Portis, and Moss with Snyder. I bet its hard to find a player with Portis' caliber. On that note speed kills. Thats the only argument I have for Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 Sean Taylor. There I proved it: That's your proof?? In that case, every person in America has an "eye for talent" Again, prove it. That's not proof. That's a no brainer. Most people would give Joe Gibbs credit for that anyway. Proof? Malcolm Kelly? no, nor any of the other 2nd rounders. Gibbs left us a playoff team and Vinny had TWO offseasons to address the future needs of the o-line and he failed to deliver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 You can't find the talent that he has found on defense through the draft and FA? Then sir, perhaps you are the one that needs tri-focals... He "found" talent in FA? Haynesworth? So, you are saying he "found" Haynesworth? Anyone who offered him $100 million could have "found" him. We don't have great overall talent. We are what our record is: 3-7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 You can't find the talent that he has found on defense through the draft and FA? Then sir, perhaps you are the one that needs tri-focals... Maybe I need tri-focals.? I think I can find these players in the draft: I do not think Vinny can. I am weighing the pros and cons of Vinny. The point of the thread is Joe Bugels ability to coach great offensive lines. Have a Coke and smile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 I do not compare Vinny to other GMs. I think it is pretty clear that Vinny is out classed when it comes to both sides of the ball talent. I'm glad you agree with me and 90% of the knowledgable fans that Vinny Cerrato is a bad GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 I'm glad you agree with me and 90% of the knowledgable fans that Vinny Cerrato is a bad GM. We all know about beating a dead horse. Vinny being the main horse. I just think we are wasting Bugel's talent by not giving him any talent to work with. Looking back: How many Offensive lines have a name placed upon them as a group? The Hogs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted November 25, 2009 Share Posted November 25, 2009 You can't point to 1st round picks as having an "eye for talent" You would make a better argument using someone like Horton, as he was a late round pick, people that have an eye for talent use that eye to find quality players deep within the draft. I'm not gonna knock on Vinny for every single decision that has been made since he's been here, I will simply look at our results, our record since he's been here for all the proof I need. Time for major change. On topic tho, Yea Bugel has done a nice job with some mediocre talent, He hasbeen around a very long time tho. If he stays then so be it, if he goes for a younger more fresh coach..then it is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 Actually O-Linemen and D-Linemen are the 2 most expensive positions to fill besides a QB. Cheapest would be safeties and TE's. I thought that defensive tackles were half the equation? And Offensive guards was the half price of offensive tackles overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 25, 2009 Author Share Posted November 25, 2009 You can't point to 1st round picks as having an "eye for talent" You would make a better argument using someone like Horton, as he was a late round pick, people that have an eye for talent use that eye to find quality players deep within the draft. I'm not gonna knock on Vinny for every single decision that has been made since he's been here, I will simply look at our results, our record since he's been here for all the proof I need. Time for major change. Agreed 100% Horton makes my point: Vinny does has an eye for defense. The most pressing issue is can/will we draft offensive lineman? I think not; not with Vinny: his track record proves as much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Maybe I need tri-focals.?I think I can find these players in the draft: I do not think Vinny can. I am weighing the pros and cons of Vinny. The point of the thread is Joe Bugels ability to coach great offensive lines. Have a Coke and smile Vinny has failed to address the o-line issue. I'm sorry I turned it into about Vinny. But, I want him gone... I've wanted that for 10 years... I celebrated when Marty fired him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Vinny has failed to address the o-line issue. I'm sorry I turned it into about Vinny. But, I want him gone... I've wanted that for 10 years... I celebrated when Marty fired him. You are after my own heart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Agreed 100% Horton makes my point:Vinny does has an eye for defense. The most pressing issue is can/will we draft offensive lineman? I think not; not with Vinny: his track record proves as much. I don;t even think Horton is that great. He had a few picks last season being in the right place. He was struggling this season before he got hurt. When you have a bunch of late round picks over the course of many offseasons, one is bound to start for us and Horton started some along with Reed... In that case, Marty fired Vinny... then Marty "found" undrafted rookie FA Antonio Pierce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bat~man Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 I don;t even think Horton is that great. He had a few picks last season being in the right place. He was struggling this season before he got hurt. When you have a bunch of late round picks over the course of many offseasons, one is bound to start for us.In that case, Marty fired Vinny... then Marty "found" undrafted rookie FA Antonio Pierce. Lots of 2nd year players struggle, sophmore slump. Vinny has made some decent decisions finding talent on defense along with some no brainers and some bad decisions. Too bad wins and losses aren't decided only on whether or not you hit on just a few picks. He lets players go that he shouldn't, keeps players that he shouldn't, gives away picks like its monopoly money. We have no offense and now with as many holes/old players we have, it will take a real effort to rebuild it in 2 off seasons let alone one. I think it is obvious that this thing has to be blown up, may as well get someone capable to rebuild it since Vinny has relentlessly proven he can not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 I don;t even think Horton is that great. He had a few picks last season being in the right place. He was struggling this season before he got hurt. When you have a bunch of late round picks over the course of many offseasons, one is bound to start for us.In that case, Marty fired Vinny... then Marty "found" undrafted rookie FA Antonio Pierce. Horton has alot of forced fumbles, and fumble recoveries. His knack for the ball is special IMO. He is not Taylor in my eyes, but he gets the job done. I agree with your observation: More picks = better chance to land a starter. The problem being it rarely is offensive line. Something the Redksins have that no other team has: JOE BUGEL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyron Biggums Posted November 26, 2009 Author Share Posted November 26, 2009 Lots of 2nd year players struggle, sophmore slump. Vinny has made some decent decisions finding talent on defense along with some no brainers and some bad decisions. Too bad wins and losses aren't decided only on whether or not you hit on just a few picks. He lets players go that he shouldn't, keeps players that he shouldn't, gives away picks like its monopoly money. We have no offense and now with as many holes/old players we have, it will take a real effort to rebuild it in 2 off seasons let alone one. I think it is obvious that this thing has to be blown up, may as well get someone capable to rebuild it since Vinny has relentlessly proven he can not. Agreed 100% Blow it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 26, 2009 Share Posted November 26, 2009 Lots of 2nd year players struggle, sophmore slump. Vinny has made some decent decisions finding talent on defense along with some no brainers and some bad decisions. Too bad wins and losses aren't decided only on whether or not you hit on just a few picks. He lets players go that he shouldn't, keeps players that he shouldn't, gives away picks like its monopoly money. We have no offense and now with as many holes/old players we have, it will take a real effort to rebuild it in 2 off seasons let alone one. I think it is obvious that this thing has to be blown up, may as well get someone capable to rebuild it since Vinny has relentlessly proven he can not. Can you give some examples of the people Vinny has "found". Not including Sean Taylor, LL, or any other big-name FA or obvious draft choice in the first round. He "found" Jason Taylor in the wrong position on the d-line, even Blache knew it, and Jason Taylor knew it and said so this season. We paid him $8 million and gave the Dolphins a 2nd rounder to loan him for one lousy season?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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