LATIMES: Wanted: Obama healthcare reform volunteers willing to be paid $15 an hour

[GoSkins561]

That is the exact point -- people on the Right are portraying this debate as a fight against nazism and communism. Why do you think people on your side of the aisle are so upset at the town hall meetings? They literally think the U.S.S.A. is right around the corner.

Because they believe in hard work and providing for yourself instead of being taxed to provide for others. Why wouldn't they be upset?

Do you trust a bunch of attorneys with your health?

We are well on our way to becoming a socialized nation. The government controlling more of our GDP than other Socialized countries makes us a what?

[Burgold]

Because they believe in hard work and providing for yourself instead of being taxed to provide for others.

Do you trust a bunch of attorneys with your health?

You know, attourneys work very hard actually. The one's I know consider a 70 hour work week light. I think your definition of partyism or classism is a wee bit... I really don't think conservatives own a monopoly or even a majority sharehold in hard work and sweat.

That's just more right wing propaganda.

[SnyderShrugged]

What about the Corps that ARE funding reform?

Do you question the drug companies motives?

Well he must! because Dick Army who has ties with freedomworks, who has ties to DLA Piper, which represents Bristol Myers Squibb (who I believe is now on board with the current proposals), is involved.

[Baculus]

Because they believe in hard work and providing for yourself instead of being taxed to provide for others. Why wouldn't they be upset?

And who do you think pays for the roads that they use? Or all of the public facilities in their area? And all those Texans protesting about this, for example, are protesting from a state that's one of the most heavily federally funded states in the Union. Heck, I have paid for the social security or Medicare that some of these protesters are using.

Is it time for me to protest them?

They act like they are the only people in this nation who pay for stuff they don't use nor for projects that they don't agree with. Well, guess what: They ain't special. A LOT US WORK, and many of us didn't want to support billion dollar efforts, such as the war in Iraq.

A LOT OF US have reason to be angry, so big whoopty-doo -- welcome to the world that some of us have felt for the last two presidential terms.

They aren't the only ones angry nor frustrated, just imagine if we act behaved in this manner every time we were angry.

Do you trust a bunch of attorneys with your health?

Apparently you do, since you oppose reform. Maybe you need to ask yourself that question.

We are well on our way to becoming a socialized nation. The government controlling more of our GDP than other Socialized countries makes us a what?

Oh no, not the "socialized" bogeyman! BTW, this is a point I made around five years ago when I was a pure capitalist, so thanks for showing up late for the party. :-)

As a note, what you are describing is state socialism or a "mixed economy." All socialism is not the same, a point that folks never seen to understand as you respond to everything with a reflexive knee-jerk.

Anyway, I would dispute your claim that "

We are well on our way to becoming a socialized nation. The government controlling more of our GDP than other Socialized countries."

[Baculus]

Well he must! because Dick Army who has ties with freedomworks, who has ties to DLA Piper, which represents Bristol Myers Squibb (who I believe is now on board with the current proposals), is involved.

Now you are understanding!

[Baculus]

Your right, screaming and yelling accomplishes nothing, interupting commerce by clogging the streets with drum circles and people blowing is the real way to get attention.

That is public protesting -- that is different then marching into a room and doing that.

[Baculus]

What about the Corps that ARE funding reform?

Do you question the drug companies motives?

Of course I do -- I definitely suspect the motives of groups such as UnitedHealth in this effort.

[SnyderShrugged]

Now you are understanding!

LOL, I understand that the logic totally fails because the Pharma industry is supporting the proposed reforms.

So the connection with DLA Piper to freedomworks is really nonsensical becaause DLA Piper also represent folks from the other side of the debate.

[SnyderShrugged]

Of course I do -- I definitely suspect the motives of groups such as UnitedHealth in this effort.

United Health isnt a Pharma company.

[Baculus]

The American Insurance Association does not include health insurers in their group. They are specific for property and causalty insurance.

They have literally nothing to do with the healthcare debate

Think outside of the box.

They are related to the health industry, because they provide for Workers’ Compensation.

For example, "twelve major property-casualty insurers have joined a suit spearheaded by the American Insurance Association to overturn provisions of the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration's controversial ergonomics standard, released last week. The suit was filed Nov. 14 in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit in Richmond, Va., the Washington-based AIA announced."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5249/is_200011/ai_n20042683/

Or, an example of their legislative efforts:

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=999

Every single concerned interest in this debate isn't a specific health insurer, and that's the missing point.

[twa]

And who do you think pays for the roads that they use? Or all of the public facilities in their area? And all those Texans protesting about this, for example, are protesting from a state that's one of the most heavily federally funded states in the Union. Heck, I have paid for the social security or Medicare that some of these protesters are using.

Ha... you mean we get back PART of what we pay as a result of lax immigration policies and are one of the top major manufacturing,shipping,energy producing areas in the country.

[Baculus]

United Health isnt a Pharma company.

No, but UnitedHealth has been involved in drug prescription underwriting. They are a bridge between the pharmas, the providers, and the AARP. This isn't about just specific industries, but the companies who often act as facilitators.

[SnyderShrugged]

Think outside of the box.

They are related to the health industry, because they provide for Workers’ Compensation.

For example, "twelve major property-casualty insurers have joined a suit spearheaded by the American Insurance Association to overturn provisions of the U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration's controversial ergonomics standard, released last week. The suit was filed Nov. 14 in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 4th Circuit in Richmond, Va., the Washington-based AIA announced."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5249/is_200011/ai_n20042683/

Or, an example of their legislative efforts:

http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=999

Every single concerned interest in this debate isn't a specific health insurer, and that's the missing point.

man you should do yoga! I havent seen anyone stretch so much in a long time!

workmans comp isnt part of the health insurance industry. I dont know why you would try to frame it that way? AIA is an organization who is involved primarilly in property and casualty insurance (workmans comp falls in that umbrella), not health insurance.

Give me a call when a major health insurance company (BCBS, Humana, Cigna, United Health care, etc) appears on their list.

Face it, you keep trying to desperately frame up a case that health insurers are involved in the town hall stuff, and you fail each time.

[Baculus]

Ha... you mean we get back PART of what we pay as a result of lax immigration policies and are one of the top major manufacturing,shipping,energy producing areas in the country.

Texas receives back around $1.80 for every dollar sent to the Feds: You live in a heavily subsidized state. A lot of states are dealing with immigration - it just isn't a Texan problem.

Just because Texas has "manufacturing,shipping,energy producing" doesn't mean you should be entitled more than another state, otherwise it undermines your arguments for a reduction in the federal system.

[SnyderShrugged]

No, but UnitedHealth has been involved in drug prescription underwriting. They are a bridge between the pharmas, the providers, and the AARP. This isn't about just specific industries, but the companies who often act as facilitators.

again, call me when a health insurer comes into the equasion.

[Baculus]

man you should do yoga! I havent seen anyone stretch so much in a long time!

workmans comp isnt part of the health insurance industry. I dont know why you would try to frame it that way? AIA is an organization who is involved primarilly in property and casualty insurance (workmans comp falls in that umbrella), not health insurance.

Give me a call when a major health insurance company (BCBS, Humana, Cigna, United Health care, etc) appears on their list.

Face it, you keep trying to desperately frame up a case that health insurers are involved in the town hall stuff, and you fail each time.

What's failure is your contortions to defend the corporations against any sort criticisms. Worse yet, the example I provided was a CLEAR example of "astroturfing," which you totally ignored. You ignore someone such as Rick Scott, who HAS worked for the health industry, being involved in this effort. And, as I said before, this isn't JUST ABOUT THE HEALTH INSURERS, either, as evidenced by other corporate interests in the fray.

There isn't a single piece of information I will provide to you in which you won't stretch yourself into a pretzel to deny or obfuscate.

[Baculus]

again, call me when a health insurer comes into the equasion.

WHY does it just HAVE to be just a health insurer? This is a stupendously silly response. It's as if you have zero clue that multiple industries are part of this debate.

[Burgold]

WHY does it just HAVE to be just a health insurer? This is a stupendously silly response. It's as if you have zero clue that multiple industries are part of this debate.

What gets me is that the insurers would have to be insane not to be lobbying on this issue. This is the livlihood, business, and their way of life. Are these multi-billion dollar companies simply going to stand to the side and say,

"Gosh government, you do whatever you think is best and we'll just fall right in line, yessiree"

Of course, they are advocating, lobbying and using every indirect and direct method they know of to make sure this ends to their advantage or at towards as positive a position as possible. To do otherwise would be irresponsible.

[Baculus]

What gets me is that the insurers would have to be insane not to be lobbying on this issue. This is the livlihood, business, and their way of life. Are these multi-billion dollar companies simply going to stand to the side and say,

"Gosh government, you do whatever you think is best and we'll just fall right in line, yessiree"

Of course, they are advocating, lobbying and using every indirect and direct method they know of to make sure this ends to their advantage or at towards as positive a position as possible. To do otherwise would be irresponsible.

Exactly. And I honestly don't think all insurers are against the plan, either, if they can get a piece of the action. More so, I become more suspect when companies such as Koch are involved with the anti-reform efforts.

But, like you said, if the health insurance lobby is against ObamaCare, then they will certainly oppose it though various means.

[SnyderShrugged]

WHY does it just HAVE to be just a health insurer? This is a stupendously silly response. It's as if you have zero clue that multiple industries are part of this debate.

Because I am specifically defending health insurers, I thought that was abundantly clear?

[SnyderShrugged]

What's failure is your contortions to defend the corporations against any sort criticisms. Worse yet, the example I provided was a CLEAR example of "astroturfing," which you totally ignored. You ignore someone such as Rick Scott, who HAS worked for the health industry, being involved in this effort. And, as I said before, this isn't JUST ABOUT THE HEALTH INSURERS, either, as evidenced by other corporate interests in the fray.

There isn't a single piece of information I will provide to you in which you won't stretch yourself into a pretzel to deny or obfuscate.

so you agree now that health insurers arent guilty of astroturf then?

[SnyderShrugged]

What gets me is that the insurers would have to be insane not to be lobbying on this issue. This is the livlihood, business, and their way of life. Are these multi-billion dollar companies simply going to stand to the side and say,

"Gosh government, you do whatever you think is best and we'll just fall right in line, yessiree"

Of course, they are advocating, lobbying and using every indirect and direct method they know of to make sure this ends to their advantage or at towards as positive a position as possible. To do otherwise would be irresponsible.

They are specifically lobbying around the postive parts (In thier view) of the proposed legislation.

[SnyderShrugged]

What's failure is your contortions to defend the corporations against any sort criticisms. Worse yet, the example I provided was a CLEAR example of "astroturfing," which you totally ignored. You ignore someone such as Rick Scott, who HAS worked for the health industry, being involved in this effort. And, as I said before, this isn't JUST ABOUT THE HEALTH INSURERS, either, as evidenced by other corporate interests in the fray.

There isn't a single piece of information I will provide to you in which you won't stretch yourself into a pretzel to deny or obfuscate.

what am I denying or obfuscating?

[Burgold]

I thought I should settle this. I called up one of the mega insurers and asked to speak with their public affairs. When connected, I let them know that I am working on a story on public health policy and the insurers stance. We talked for about ten minutes and they agreed to send me their plan of action.

Because of confidentiality, I am only reproducing the first page here.

[SnyderShrugged]

I thought I should settle this. I called up one of the mega insurers and asked to speak with their public affairs. When connected, I let them know that I am working on a story on public health policy and the insurers stance. We talked for about ten minutes and they agreed to send me their plan of action.

Because of confidentiality, I am only reproducing the first page here.

LOL! H2O outa my nose!

But if you really would like a connection with a large insurance company to speak with, PM me, I might be able to get you to someone.