J33Edwards Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Just curious what those of you who work out do to get a six pack look...just regular situps and crunches? Something else... Also does anybody know how good contraptions like Ab Rollers, Sliders, Torso Track, etc. etc. work? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riggins44 Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 I attached a 6 pack of Michelob to my gut. Start off with a 6 pack, but can lose that quickly. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J33Edwards Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 maybe I'm asking the wrong crowd :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Forget the contraptions. You really want to know how to get the six-pack look? Ready? Stop eating. Seriously, no matter how many abdominal exercises you do you won't see six muscles (or eight for those genetically inclined) unless you get your body-fat ratio down below 12 percent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J33Edwards Posted June 16, 2003 Author Share Posted June 16, 2003 well i run at least 3 miles a day so i'm not too worried about what i eat...i'm 6 foot and weigh 160 lbs...just looking to tighten up the middle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Kurp is right, of course. You can have amazingly developed abs, but if they're lingering beneath a nice fluffy pillow of Nacho and Lager accumulation, ain't noboby but you gonna know it. Still, assuming the layer of fun IS gone ... best I've run across yet, with the added HUGE benefit of next-to-no cost: Legenday Abs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Hog Posted June 16, 2003 Share Posted June 16, 2003 Originally posted by {}m Kurp is right, of course. You can have amazingly developed abs, but if they're lingering beneath a nice fluffy pillow of Nacho and Lager accumulation, ain't noboby but you gonna know it. Hey, don't forget about the doughnuts and pancakes ! ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayouBrave86 Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I'm 5'11 and about 140. I want some abs too..I can feel the abs underneath the fluff haha..if I tighten my stomach up..you can see barely the basic outline..but not..the chissled look..im not necessarily lookin for the chissled look..but..where it is noticeable..what should I be doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NASMTrainer Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I agree with The Krup but I wouldnt do reps on the abs, do it to failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddha Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I just recently began my first serious attempt at DeBuddhafying myself with weightlifting and massive consumption of water. Things went well until I decided to add crunches to my workout, and I experienced the worst muscle cramp/spasms in my upper and lower abs simultaneously. Left me on the floor doubled over in pain for a good 20 minutes with subsequent soreness for 3 days. Needless to say, I'm hesitant to go back to the ab workouts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Also, figure out how many grams of protein you're consuming every day. For someone of your weight and working out 4 or 5 days a week, you should be consuming approximately 120 - 160 grams a day. =============================================================== kurp,u definitely know what your talking about but your protein consumption is too high.just asked the wife(who's a dietician @ a hospital) & her calculation for him is 65-75g a day.after that u pee out the extra nitrogen(protein) anyways.it is not stored in your body.there can also be a negative effect where too much/excessive amounts of protein is hard on your kidneys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashback Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 I used to do 8 min. abs, and now I've got the routine pretty much memorized, but instead of timing it, I do it for reps. So it'd be somthing like 35 crunches, then 35 with your right elbow touching your left knee, then the other side, then 35 reverse crunces (stick your legs straight up and pull your knees toward your chest), then 35 crunches with your hands down by your legs, then 35 crunches laying on your right side, 35 more on your left side, stick your legs back in the air and lift your butt off the floor 35 times, and then 70 alternating crunches (elbows to knees again) and 35 more crunches with your feet off the floor and your done! If I weighed about 40 lbs less, my abs would look fabulous! I've also heard that if your lifting heavy, you should eat a gram of protien per pound of body wieght per day. But I think I heard it from a protein shake salesman. :deal: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCS Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Not alot of time, heading to shop, but here's a quick one. Abs of steel, 8 min abs, and what Om posted. All good. What others said as well. Failure instead of reps. 30 for example is good, until/unless that's not working the muscles hard enough. Lifting. Well, this is assuming you don't already, you may be already. good recommendation to do so. If you don't regularly, I'd recommend circuit training to start. All the body parts, roughly 1-2 exercises per muscle group and quickly I might add. Get ya started and won't have to spend all day in the gym hurting yourself. diet. Common sense. Doesn't take a lotto figure out what you are doing right/wrong. Make some changes where necessary though it would appear from your build sweeping changes may not be necessary. (rarely are for the average person). Seems like you like to run. Go for it. If you have time, work in the weights. If not, little less distance and time on weight days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Originally posted by skinsanity56 kurp,u definitely know what your talking about but your protein consumption is too high.just asked the wife(who's a dietician @ a hospital) & her calculation for him is 65-75g a day.after that u pee out the extra nitrogen(protein) anyways.it is not stored in your body.there can also be a negative effect where too much/excessive amounts of protein is hard on your kidneys. SkinSanity, One's protein needs are determined by their age, sex, weight and whether someone is pregnant, lactating or in intense sports training. While the amount of protein needed by athletes is the subject of active research, currently the American Dietetic Association recommends that athletes consume 1.5 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or about twice the Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA). I've also read that athletes should consume 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, while other sports medicine physicians recommend 1 gram of protein per pound of lean muscle weight. Here is a chart that is repeated on a number of websites: Sedentary adult weight x 0.4 = number of grams of protein needed Adult recreational exerciser weight x 0.5-0.75 = number of grams of protein needed Adult competitive athlete weight x 0.6-0.9 = number of grams of protein needed Adult who is building muscle mass weight x 0.7-0.9 = number of grams of protein needed Dieting athlete weight x 0.7-1.0 = number of grams of protein needed Growing teen-age athlete weight x 0.9-1.0 = number of grams of protein needed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted June 17, 2003 Share Posted June 17, 2003 Originally posted by skinsanity56 does this come from some muscle enhancement/steroids/supplements website?????totally innaccurate. No, it comes directly from the American Dietetic Association Website In a position paper on Nutrition and athletic performance , the following is written: # Protein requirements are slightly increased in highly active people. Protein recommendations for endurance athletes are 1.2 to 1.4 g/kg body weight per day, whereas those for resistance and strength-trained athletes may be as high as 1.6 to 1.7 g/kg body weight per day. These recommended protein intakes can generally be met through diet alone, without the use of protein or amino acid supplements, if energy intake is adequate to maintain body weight. Okay, I've shown you mine, now you can show me your resources to back your claim that this protein requirement is "totally inaccurate". Originally posted by Equality 7-2521 Ok but how you lose wieght, i lift 4/7 days 2 for upper body 2 for lower body and run half a mile then do sprints after lifting You lose weight by burning more calories than you consume. You're doing the right thing by buidling muscle. The greater the muscle-to-fat ratio, the more calories you'll burn at rest. You could also speed up your weight loss by running 3 miles instead of .5 miles. Actually it doesn't really matter whether you walk the 3 miles or run it in terms of calories burned (although running is better for cardio health). Count the number of calories you consume in a day. If you're not losing weight, then reduce that number. Go slow. You didn't put all the weight on in a matter of days so there's no need to expect results in a number of days. Edit..... I know whenever I'm reading someone's advice with regards to exercise and diet I want to see a picture of them so I can tell whether or not they follow their own advice, and whether it works. I've tried to follow a healthy diet for about the last 20 years. In that time I've also found a way to exercise most days. However I've only started running in the past 18 months and I've only been lifting weights for about a year. I just took this picture using a mirror a few minutes ago. I figure I'm about 12% body fat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cskin Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 I workout regularly, so here's my take. Remember, I'm 6ft. 205 and am never confused with someone suffering from droopy shoulders or spindly arms. Check out the BFL (Body For Life) website for Ab workout. Those are the basics, and that's where you should start in the beginning. You can see great results using just the basic movements of crunches, reverse crunches, and oblique crunches. They key is not the number of reps, but the quality and "squeeze" of the abs on every rep that makes the difference. If you do 12, and you move slowly throughout the movement and squeeze at the top of the concentration as hard as you can, you'll get the same results as if you did 100 half-*ss reps. As for protein intake, don't sweat it. Remember, it's not the protein that makes you fat....its carbs. Eating carbs late in the day....say after 6:00... is what sends the layer of "nachos and lager" OM speaks of to your midsection. Try to limit carb intake, other than fibrous vegetables like Broc. and Califlour, from carbs like bread....pasta.... and potatoes late in the day. Most important advice... eat 5-6 smaller meals a day and drink plenty of water. You'll stoke your metabolism by "grazing" as opposed to "gorging" and your body will turn into a fat burning furnace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 thanks for the link bro,but we already have that article in our bookcase.it's in the canadian journal of dietetic practice and research vol.61 #4-winter 2000 pg176-182.(the ADA,ACSM &DoC all use the same standards)i forgot to mention my wife has her masters degree in dietetics.she will soon be in charge @ the hospital she works at.she also was in charge of the renal unit @ pgrh for 3yrs.that's for kidney & liver problems,so she's knows what to much protein can do to your body..she uses this article all the time & this is why i stated it was inaccurate in how u used it..this article is not about you & me,it's about athletes & athletic performance.hate to break it to you but you and i aren't athletes.these numbers below are for serious/professional athletes(8-10 hr a day training) who do it for competition/living Protein requirements are slightly increased in highly active people. Protein recommendations for endurance athletes are 1.2 to 1.4 g/kg body weight per day, whereas those for resistance and strength-trained athletes may be as high as 1.6 to 1.7 g/kg body weight per day. These recommended protein intakes can generally be met through diet alone, without the use of protein or amino acid supplements, if energy intake is adequate to maintain body weight ==========================quote from you not for the recreational/competitive athlete like u and me which are - these are from u again Sedentary adult weight x 0.4 = number of grams of protein needed Adult recreational exerciser weight x 0.5-0.75 = number of grams of protein needed Adult competitive athlete weight x 0.6-0.9 = number of grams of protein needed Adult who is building muscle mass weight x 0.7-0.9 = number of grams of protein needed Dieting athlete weight x 0.7-1.0 = number of grams of protein needed Growing teen-age athlete weight x 0.9-1.0 = number of grams of protein needed ============================== so to prove my point(& u already did it for me u just never realized it).that puts you(u stated u just started lifting weights & running) and me(i try to find a way to exercise everyday too) at 0.5g-0.9g a day.so check your own stats above again for yourself. what scares me the most is u fail to recognize the negative effects/long term probs that can result from to much protein in 3 posts..as for dieting.it took me 3yrs to get it through her head NOT to bring her work home for supper all the time..lol.believe me i've experienced it to the fullest. as for the picture thing.that's just plain wierd bro..don't care what you look like. i'm not into guys or guys bodies CSKIN has it figured out....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 SkinSanity, I'm going to cut you some slack here since I know that your hackles are up in defense of your wife. But... can you do simple math? You wrote: "so to prove my point(& u already did it for me u just never realized it).that puts you(u stated u just started lifting weights & running) and me(i try to find a way to exercise everyday too) at 0.5g-0.9g a day.so check your own stats above again for yourself." Those figures are not per kilogram of weight (check my original post again) but per pound of body weight. So for someone who is 160 lbs the range is 80-144g of protein per day. How about you check the stats again? Now, let's establish one point here. In my original post to J33Edwards I recommended that he establish an exercise program to build muslce mass. That my friend, does not take 8-10 hours a day. Cskin had it correctly when he spoke of the "quality" of exercise. A person who is building muscle mass need not spend more than 1 hour in the gym as long as he is minimizing rest time between exercises and sets, using correct form, and performing each exercise with intensity and slow movement. In fact, the biggest mistake most people make lifting weights is over-training. You also wrote: "what scares me the most is u fail to recognize the negative effects/long term probs that can result from to much protein in 3 posts.." You know what scares the hell out of me? I presume you're getting this information from your wife whom you've stated has her masters in dietetics. In the [AMERICAN JOURNAL OF KIDNEY DISEASES 31(6):1048-1049 (1998) and INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF ARTIFICAL ORGANS 20(6):304-308 (1997)], studies on human subjects (usually without distinguishing the type of protein) indicate that the effects of dietary protein are minimal in nondiabetic patients with no renal injury. You also make the erroneous assumption (I again assume from your wife's input) that all proteins are equal. The kind of dietary protein has an effect on GFR (Glomerular Filtration Rate). Subjects fed 90 grams of meat protein daily showed a significantly greater increase in GFR (stress on the kidney) than was seen for subjects fed 90 grams of milk protein [CLIN. NEPHROL. 27(2):71-75 (1987)]. By contrast, a study with whey protein [NAHRUNG 42(1):12-15 (1998)] showed no significant effects on liver or kidney function. Here's the bottom line SkinSanity. Although it is tempting to think that the dietary requirements of kidney patients may be a guide for healthy people wanting to avoid kidney disease in advancing years, such thinking is mistaken. Kidney patients are under nutritional constraints that might lead to poor nutrition when applied to normal people. Potassium provides a good example of this. In other words, there has never been a study that proves that people who have normal kidney function will suffer kidney disease by consuming 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight. You finally write: "as for the picture thing.that's just plain wierd bro..don't care what you look like. i'm not into guys or guys bodies" I'm not going to argue with you on what you find to be weird. I will tell you this. When it comes to people who claim to be educated in the sciences of exercise and diet, whether it be doctors, dieticians, or other health professionals, there's nothing that irks me more than when those same people are out of shape and fat. Talk about lack of credibility. I was once confined to the cardiac ward of a hospital for a week while they ran tests on me and ultimately performed a catheterization. (As it turns out all I had was an inner ear problem - go figure). Anyway, during that time I had a "certified" dietician come to my bed and start to lecture me on nutrition. Here I am listening to a woman who was at least 30 lbs overweight and I'm supposed to take her seriously? My sister was with me in the room at the time and finally interrupted the woman by telling her that she was in essence, preaching to the choir. I've met a number of dieticians over the years and I have yet to run across one that couldn't stand to practice what they preach, if you know what I mean. The picture was provided in case anyone shares my same desire for "proof in the pudding". While I don't view myself as anywhere near perfect, I do think that results are relative when it comes to age and health. Listen Skinsanity, I'm not degreed in dietetics. But I have studied the subject for going on 20 years and if you're going to take me on in a debate over nutrition, then you better have your ducks in a row. So far, your ducks are scattered like seeds in the wind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NavyDave Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 A shade under 5'11 188lbs Working on getting biggercalves and ankles I saw the commercial for sixpack abs watching football last year and for $9 bucks I was able to get the Samuel Adams version with accessories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted June 18, 2003 Share Posted June 18, 2003 well bro you have just enough info/knowledge to make yourself DANGEROUS.keep it to yourself.a classic example of why you should never take medical advice from someone like DR.KURPIE here who isn't in the field.go to your doctor or see a specialist.the ADA,ACSM & DoC work together & the standards are the same(1 doesn't use metric & 1 imperial). 0.5-0.9g(grams METRIC)X(times) your weight in kg's(kilograms-that's metric again NOT lb's)=your needed protein intake.once again they share the same standards.(g of protein x kg's of bodyweight=recommended daily intake. NOT gXlb's for america gXkg's for rest of world we share the same standards.once again we have this article right here in our bookcase. by the way my wife isn't 30lb's overweight.she practices what she preaches like i said before.she is 5'6" 110lbs.runs 5-10 miles a day her whole life.closer to an athlete than you or me will ever be.ask fuji what she looks like if you don't believe me.fool.. and nowhere did i "erroneously state that all proteins are equal"?????????????????she knows all about different proteins like i told you before. like you said your not educated in it & she is(7yrs schooling/5yrs practice).end of story. you are & always were arguing with yourself.turn out the lights when your finished.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 SkinSanity, Go back and read my original response to you. The ADA recommendations were grams to kilograms. The other chart I supplied was grams to pounds. You questioned my math based on the second chart figures and I merely pointed out your error. You appeared confused by that. Sorry, but I can't help you understand what you read. Now, while you're busy attempting to engage me on a level you clearly are unfamiliar with, I've noticed that you are unable to dispute anything I've stated up this point. Other than of course by telling us about your wife's education and experience. If you or your wife know something other than what information I've posted from a number of sources, please share. Otherwise I think you just have your panties in a bunch right now and you're unable to admit that perhaps you're wrong on this. Just to clarify another point, I never said I wasn't education on nutrition. I said I didn't have a degree. Surely you don't equate a degree with automatically having the knowledge, or retaining the knowledge? I have access to most of the same peer reviewed studies published in journals that any nutritionist has at their disposal, and I read them. Nutrition is a passion of mine, and has been ever since I picked up the book "Eat to Win" by Dr. Robert Haas some 19 years ago. I don't claim to know it all, but I do know enough at times to ask questions and challenge someone like yourself when you spew incorrect information. If that's not to your liking then I suggest you play in a different ballpark next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 your right i was misleading you.the article is from pg.176-192,not 176-182.so it's actually 16pgs.my mistake.now back to yours.bro the formula is not in lb's from the ADA.looking at it right now.& if your into health as much as you say you must follow these guidelines strictly that were set out & approved for you & me by the ADA no???????????? plain & simple it's g x kg's(divide lb's X 2.2=KG'S) never in lb's.(1lb=454g or 2.2lbs per kg) so he's highly active male we'll use 0.9(highly active)x160lbs(160divided by 2.2=73kgs)=====66g of protein. don't believe me.ask someone who knows......your misleading yourself. everything in the article you bring up from the ADA uses g/kg's.once again were looking at there guidelines,not something we made up. & EVERYTHING that the ADA,ACSM & DoC produce or publish comes to our house. again from you..grams to kilograms...from the ada # Protein requirements are slightly increased in highly active people. Protein recommendations for endurance athletes are 1.2 to 1.4 g/kg body weight per day, whereas those for resistance and strength-trained athletes may be as high as 1.6 to 1.7 g/kg body weight per day. These recommended protein intakes can generally be met through diet alone, without the use of protein or amino acid supplements, if energy intake is adequate to maintain body weight. more from you....athletes consume 1.5g/kg is twice the ada daily recommended limit.REMEMBER were not athletes so 0.75g per kg is sufficient.it's right there for you While the amount of protein needed by athletes is the subject of active research, currently the American Dietetic Association recommends that athletes consume 1.5 grams of protein per kilogram of body weight, or about twice the Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA). and again from you.this all works if it's referenced to kg's not lb's.& these supposed sports doctors don't follow there own guidelines set by the ACSM(AMERICAN COLLEGE of SPORTS MEDICINE) which use the same guidelines??? I've also read that athletes should consume 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight, while other sports medicine physicians recommend 1 gram of protein per pound of lean muscle weight. Here is a chart that is repeated on a number of websites: Sedentary adult weight x 0.4 = number of grams of protein needed Adult recreational exerciser weight x 0.5-0.75 = number of grams of protein needed Adult competitive athlete weight x 0.6-0.9 = number of grams of protein needed Adult who is building muscle mass weight x 0.7-0.9 = number of grams of protein needed Dieting athlete weight x 0.7-1.0 = number of grams of protein needed Growing teen-age athlete weight x 0.9-1.0 = number of grams of protein needed get it yet or do you just not see the light?????????metric man DON'T QUIT YOUR DAY JOB & don't let the door slam you in the asz on the way out & if u pm me your address i'll gladly send you this article & to prove it is in my house & that the wife knows her ****.but you'll have to learn the metric system first.you can even use the 154 references at the back that were used to complete this report.oh & by the way this article is only effect/approved until dec.31/2005 when they will review/update it again.enough hail redskins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foo Fighter Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 If you want to lose weight you have to be willing to accept the fact that you will feel hungry sometimes (Unless you staple your stomach) . Until you get your mind around that, you won't be successful. There is more than one way to do it, but that's the bottom line, IMO. I prefer exercise and eating whatever I want...just less than 2000 calories a day (for a 200 pound man). Once or twice a week you can pig out. It varies from metabolism to metabolism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 hey kurp.was at my family doctor this morning.he recommends no more than 80g's of protein a day for me.DID YOU CALL YOURS???& the wife is preparing a little medical/nutrition/dietetic test,actually we'll call it a pretest for ya.we'll see how you do with this one before she gets down n' dirty with the real thing.feel free to do the same.....WE'LL EXPOSE THE FRAUD HERE YET .. she needs a little time as she has her hands full with our newborn baby(not making excuses) we had fri. night.it was posted in fedex check yourself.this is why i've been typing/relaying for her as she has better/more important things to do.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I look forward to it SkinSanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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