Did France help Baathists Escape to Europe?

[Riggo-toni]

WASHINGTON — The French government gave members of Saddam Hussein's regime passports that would allow them to enter Europe and escape the coalition's hunt for top Iraqi officials, The Washington Times reported Tuesday.

U.S. intelligence officials told the Times that an unknown number of Iraqi regime members were given French passports by French officials in Syria.

The report could not be independently confirmed.

French passport holders are able to enter any European Union country without a visa, and are usually granted tourist visas upon entry to many other countries, including the United States.

More importantly, Iraqis holding French passports would be able to move freely among the 12 EU countries that are part of the Schengen agreement (search) on unrestricted travel.

Britain, Denmark and Ireland are not part of the Schengen pact, but French passport holders can travel from Athens to Lisbon to Berlin without questioning, and can also fly to French overseas possessions (search) in the Caribbean, South America and Pacific and Indian oceans.

The reports have angered Pentagon, State Department and intelligence officials in Washington, the Times reported, because it indicates French willingness to undermine the search for senior aides to Saddam.

"It made it very difficult to track these people," one official told the Times.

As U.S. troops rolled into Baghdad in the second week of April, many regime members were thought to have fled to Syria.

A second Bush administration official told the Times, "It's like Raoul Wallenberg (search) in reverse," a reference to the Swedish diplomat who issued travel documents to help Hungarian Jews avoid deportation to Nazi concentration camps during World War II. "Now you have the French helping the bad guys escape from us."

Nathalie Loiseau, a spokeswoman for the French Embassy in Washington, told the Times that French authorities had not issued any visas or passports to Iraqi regime officials since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

"France formally denies this type of allegation, which is not only contrary to reality but is intended to discredit our nation," she said. "It is certainly time for rumors of this type — totally unfounded and a dishonor to those who spread them — to stop."

The reports add fuel to the fire over allegations that Paris had been colluding with Baghdad before and during the coalition invasion of Iraq.

One report said a French company covertly sold military spare parts to Iraq in the weeks before the war. Another indicated that a French oil company had been working with a Russian oil firm to clinch a deal with Saddam's government at the same time.

The Times also said the French government had denied U.S. intelligence reports indicating that a Chinese chemical company used French and Syrian brokers to circumvent U.N. sanctions in providing Iraq with chemicals used in making missile fuel.

Pentagon officials were said to be frustrated that few of the most senior leaders identified on the list of top 55 officials of the Saddam regime had been captured.

Of those who are in U.S. custody — such as former Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz (search) — few haven given much information considered helpful. All those captured insist Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction.

The Bush administration remained optimistic that significant information will be uncovered.

"I never believed that we'd just tumble over weapons of mass destruction in that country," Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told Fox News Sunday, echoing comments made by President Bush on Saturday.

"I'm not frustrated at all," Rumsfeld said later in another televised interview.

Sunday's capture of a top Iraqi biological-weapons scientist, Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash (search), aka "Mrs. Anthrax," brings to 19 the number of senior Iraqi leaders who have been caught. U.S. officials hope Ammash can provide information detailing Iraq's banned weapons program.

Secretary of State Colin Powell said Sunday that he was assured during weekend talks with Syrian President Bashar al-Assad that Damascus had turned over Iraqi officials it had been harboring, but he cautioned that the United States may be unaware of others.

"Some have been made available to us," Powell said on CBS' Face the Nation. "Let me put it that way: Who we knew were there are no longer there. They've been made available to us, and they will be before the bar of justice of the Iraqi people."

Powell said Syria has been "helpful" in the past two years in dealing with the war on terrorism, primarily through U.S. and Syrian intelligence liaisons. Numerous reports have detailed Syrian cooperation against Al Qaeda.

"This is the time for you to locate these individuals and turn them over to Iraqi justice and not allow Syria to become a haven for materials that might be coming out of Iraq still, or came out of Iraq or individuals who are trying to seek haven," Powell said he told Assad.

Asked on NBC's Meet the Press if Iraqi officials had fled to Syria, Rumsfeld said, "Oh, there's no question but that they did. Absolutely. ... Some left and went to Syria and stayed, and some have left Iraq, gone to Syria and transited to other countries."

Syria in the past several weeks has expelled more than 30 Iraqis, including many from Tikrit (search), Saddam's hometown, the Times reported.

After first granting sanctuary to former Iraqi intelligence official Farouk Hijazi (search), Syria turned him over to U.S. officials in Iraq.

Congress is considering legislation that would impose economic sanctions on Syria for its support of terrorism.

[Buddha]

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by riggo-toni

U.S. intelligence officials told the Times that an unknown number of Iraqi regime members were given French passports by French officials in Syria.

The report could not be independently confirmed.

Nathalie Loiseau, a spokeswoman for the French Embassy in Washington, told the Times that French authorities had not issued any visas or passports to Iraqi regime officials since the beginning of Operation Iraqi Freedom.

"France formally denies this type of allegation, which is not only contrary to reality but is intended to discredit our nation," she said. "It is certainly time for rumors of this type — totally unfounded and a dishonor to those who spread them — to stop."

I have no idea where the truth lies in this dispute. If "U.S. intelligence officials" have proof, they should present it. If they have the proof, it's an actionable charge to bring to the U.N.

France's worst problem is their past economic ties to Iraq, which leaves them vulnerable to this sort of accusation. But the Bush team is on record saying that they will make France pay for their opposition to the U.S. invasion, and this could easily be part of the payback: a spurious and inflammatory accusation.

We know our government has lied about Iraq throughout this sordid affair. They may be telling the truth in this instance, or maybe not: what's sad to me is that they've destroyed the trust necessary to make such accusations believable at face value. And given that the charge was made as an anonymous leak, it smells like a lie.

Even I would support going after France for this. If it's true, let's put names and proof behind the charge.

[Skins24]

Here's the Times article.

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20030506-32981825.htm

France helped Iraqis escape

By Bill Gertz

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The French government secretly supplied fleeing Iraqi officials with passports in Syria that allowed them to escape to Europe, The Washington Times has learned.

An unknown number of Iraqis who worked for Saddam Hussein's government were given passports by French officials in Syria, U.S. intelligence officials said.

The passports are regarded as documents of the European Union, because of France's membership in the union, and have helped the Iraqis avoid capture, said officials familiar with intelligence reports.

The French support, which was revealed through sensitive intelligence-gathering means, angered Pentagon, State Department and intelligence officials in Washington because it undermined the search for senior aides to Saddam, who fled Iraq in large numbers after the fall of Baghdad on April 9.

"It made it very difficult to track these people," one official said.

A second Bush administration official said, "It's like Raoul Wallenberg in reverse," a reference to the Swedish diplomat who supplied travel documents to help Jews escape Nazi Germany in World War II. "Now you have the French helping the bad guys escape from us."

Asked about the passports, Nathalie Loiseau, a spokeswoman for the French Embassy, said French authorities have not issued any visas to officials of the former Iraqi regime since the beginning of the war in Iraq, either in Syria or elsewhere.

"France formally denies this type of allegation, which is not only contrary to reality but is intended to discredit our nation," she said. "It is certainly time for rumors of this type — totally unfounded and a dishonor to those who spread them — to stop."

The French passports allow the wanted Iraqis to move freely among 12 EU countries that are part of the Schengen agreement on unrestricted travel. Britain, Denmark and Ireland are not part of the Schengen pact.

The intelligence on the French passports came after reports indicated that a French company covertly sold military spare parts to Iraq in the weeks before the war.

Other intelligence reports indicated that a French oil company was working with a Russian oil firm to conclude a deal with Saddam's government in the days before military action began March 19.

The French government also denied U.S. intelligence indicating that a Chinese chemical company used French and Syrian brokers to circumvent U.N. sanctions in providing Iraq with chemicals used in making missile fuel.

Regarding the French passports for fleeing Iraqis, Pentagon officials have expressed frustration that few of the most senior leaders identified on the list of top 55 officials of the Saddam regime have been captured.

The capture yesterday of an Iraqi biological weapons scientist, Huda Salih Mahdi Ammash, brings to 19 the number of senior Iraqi leaders who have been caught. One has been reported killed.

Only one of the captives is ranked in the top 10.

Secretary of State Colin L. Powell said Sunday that he did not know how many Iraqi officials had been given haven in Syria.

"Some have been made available to us," Mr. Powell said on CBS' "Face the Nation."

"Let me put it that way: Who we knew were there are no longer there," he said. "They've been made available to us, and they will be before the bar of justice of the Iraqi people."

Mr. Powell said other wanted Iraqis have been identified to the Syrian government "to see whether they can be located."

"But my sense from President Bashar al-Assad is that he has no interest in serving as a haven for any of these individuals," Mr. Powell said. "So I think if we can give him information and give him specific names and anything else we can say about these people, I think he would try to respond."

It could not be learned whether Mr. Powell and the Syrian president discussed Iraqis who might have transited through Syria to other nations.

Mr. Powell said Syria has been "helpful" in the past two years in dealing with the war on terrorism, primarily through U.S. and Syrian intelligence liaison.

The secretary also told Mr. Assad that "there may be people in Syria that we don't know about but you know about" who should be turned over to U.S. forces.

"This is the time for you to locate these individuals and turn them over to Iraqi justice and not allow Syria to become a haven for materials that might be coming out of Iraq still, or came out of Iraq or individuals who are trying to seek haven," he said.

Under pressure from the United States, Syria in the past several weeks expelled more than 30 Iraqis, many who came from Saddam's hometown of Tikrit.

After first granting sanctuary to former Iraqi intelligence official Farouk Hijazi, Syria turned him over to U.S. officials in Iraq.

Congress is considering legislation that would impose economic sanctions on Syria for its support of terrorism and to pressure it to withdraw its forces from Lebanon and stop building ballistic missiles.

***

Please stop it France. WE ALREADY HATE YOU!!!! No need to keep doing this.

[Nighthawk]

Bring it to the U.N. :laugh: Now that's funny!

[RiggoDrill]

The Times is only good as a cat-box liner.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by Nighthawk

Bring it to the U.N. :laugh: Now that's funny!

This may come as news to you, but the rule of law is the only enduring defense against tyranny.

This was put forth most succinctly by John Locke, whose assertion of the "natural rights" of man became the intellectual underpinnings of the American Revolution, the Constitution and Bill of Rights -- in short, American democracy:

"Wherever Law ends, Tyranny begins"

-- John Locke (1690)

There is a strong argument that Saddam Hussein and his henchmen could be tried for crimes against humanity -- war crimes and crimes against his own people. As a corollary, France could be charged (if not meaningfully convicted) with aiding the flight of known war criminals.

The legal basis for both charges is the 1948 U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

We are a member of the U.N., and we can use its due process. Even if charges fail to achieve convictions, France would be humiliated in world opinion for its actions.

None of this will happen, of course, because this anonymous leak is likely a lie -- or irrelevant, if the U.S. let Hussein and his men into Syria in the first place, as is rumored.

One thing Bush & Co. certainly don't want is the specter of Hussein and his top henchmen, or Osama bin Laden, caught alive. By their testimony, you would have a far better understanding of who is running our government.

None of this is a defense of Hussein and his men, or Osama bin Laden, all of whom should be tried for war crimes and crimes against humanity. Along with some members of our own government. It would be interesting to see exactly which charges would be truthfully applied against which men.

"All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent."

-- Thomas Jefferson

[Skins24]

........and then I woke up and ASF's post was still there!

None of this will happen, of course, because this anonymous leak is likely a lie -- or irrelevant, if the U.S. let Hussein and his men into Syria in the first place, as is rumored.

Hmmm....which do you believe. That France possibly helped. Or that the US let them in.......just to capture some of them later, and to blame France which, after months of talk and debates at the UN, would do nothing.

By their testimony, you would have a far better understanding of who is running our government.

NO! You're not saying that ________ is running the country are you!?

It's alway's good to believe terrorist anyway. They ALWAYS tell the truth.

[Atlanta Skins Fan]

Originally posted by rskin24

Hmmm....which do you believe. That France possibly helped. Or that the US let them in.......just to capture some of them later, and to blame France which, after months of talk and debates at the UN, would do nothing.

As always, the precise truth is hard to pinpoint in these things, but you can count on the headlines being disinformation except when accompanied by genuine proof.

The rumor circulating in the Middle East is that Saudi Arabia brokered a deal with the U.S. and Iraq, whereby Saddam's men would escape to Syria, the U.S. would exit Saudi Arabia, and the U.S. would take over Iraq as its primary Middle East military base.

Whether the rumor is true, I have no idea. But it was remarkable that the U.S. supposedly could not secure the Syrian border with more than 300,000 troops in Iraq, and our troops in northern Iraq prior to the war having officially started.. Again, the headlines pointed toward the southern campaign -- that was the bouncing ball. The far more interesting action happened in northern Iraq.

Whether France did or did play a role in the escape of Saddam's henchmen is anyone's guess. All I'm pointing out is that the form of this charge -- an anonymous leak -- is the method of classic disinformation.

[Golgo-13]

Originally posted by RiggoDrill

The Times is only good as a cat-box liner.

The Post works rather well in that regard as well.

[Riggo-toni]

Originally posted by escholz

The Post works rather well in that regard as well.

yeah, I like having both the Times and The Post so i can get both the Fascist and the Communist viewpoints....

[Sarge]

Whether the rumor is true, I have no idea. But it was remarkable that the U.S. supposedly could not secure the Syrian border with more than 300,000 troops in Iraq, and our troops in northern Iraq prior to the war having officially started..

You have no clue what you are talking about.

[fansince62]

Air Sarge....bingo!!!!!

Just be sure that ASF always walks in front of you.......

As for Locke and Law...I think you will find most folks on the left will resist that connection with as much force as possible. They are much more disposed to Utilitarian theory as espoused by Rawls in A Theory of Justice. The nice thing about Utilitarianism is that there is always wiggle room!!!

BTW....you will also find, if you read The Second Treatise of Government, that Locke's notion of law was objective in the sense that it emanates from God and is discernable through human reason. Note also that he postulated a social compact to justify civil society and its institutions. But the best part? "Whoever uses force without right....puts himself into a state of war with those against whom he so uses it.....and everyone has a right to defend himself and to resist the aggressor." any aggressors come to mind? (since ASF has extended this to the international arena it is a valid question). ASF obviously believes that Saddam, and not Bush, was in the right. Let's put this in the stark moral terms it deserves since our resident non-participant, armchair, web-based political philosopher has repeatedly intimated that the US has practiced genocide/murder on a grand scale during Iraqi Freedom: who holds the high ground? did you prefer the staus quou ante? does, in this instance, the matter of intentions outweigh the moral repugnance of the regime that was deposed? why is it that you have such a high standard for uncovering WMDs immediately, but none (apparently) for the second and third hand information you so willingly accept that speaks to intentions, motivations and states of mind? the hypocrisy of the double standard you apply is truly breathtaking, and itself speaks to not-so-hidden agendas.

ASF is correct about the fundamental, but not sole, importance of the rule of law. Somehow, he has managed to confuse this with one imagined implementation: the UN. I wasn't aware that the UN was ever conceived as a legislative or judicial body - much less that there was any cannon of law it interpreted in the administration of its functions - there are signatories to International Conventions and multi-lateral treaties, but nothing such as a common law or a Constitution. Perhaps the legal beagles on the board can add some clarity. I thought it was supposed to be a forumn for resolving international disputes - resolutoin that has always been based on the interests of the nation states in conflict or with the greatest power. oh...and for transferring money from the US to the rest of the world.