76 Years of First Impressions (Updated)

[CM916]

Lud Wray 1932

L 14-0 vs Brooklyn Dodgers

First Five: 1-2-2

Career: 4-4-2

Lone Star Dietz 1933-34

T 7-7 at Green Bay Packers

First Five: 3-1-1

First Season: 5-5-2

Career: 11-11-2

Tie start, even record.

Eddie Casey 1935

W 7-3 vs Brooklyn Dodgers

First Five: 1-4

Career: 2-8-1

Ray Flaherty 1936-42

L 10-0 at Pittsburgh Pirates

First Five: 2-3

First Season: 7-5-0

Career: 54-21-3, 2-2 in League Championships

The best start like crap, I tell you.

Dutch Bergman 1943

W 27-0 vs Brooklyn Dodgers

First Five: 4-0-1

Career: 6-3-1, 1-1 lost league championship

Dud Degroot 1944-45

T 31-31 at Philadelphia Eagles

First Five: 4-0-1

First Season: 6-3-1

Career: 14-5-1, 0-1 lost 1945 league championship

I'd love to known more about the details behind the names and numbers.

Turk Edwards 1946-48

T 14-14 vs Pittsburgh Steelers

First Five: 3-1-1

First Season: 5-5-1

Career: 16-18-1

Nice start for a dud.

Herman Ball 1949-51

L 38-7 at Chicago Cardinals

First Five: 1-4 (Shared Duties with John Whelchel 3-3-1 1949)

First Season: 3-9 (1950)

Career: 4-16

Let go after 0-3 start in 1951

No idea what was going on these three years.

Update: Actually, Whelchel was the shortest tenured non-interrim coach in Redskins history fired after just a handful of games before Ball took over. I will fix these stats sometime soon from my new Redskins Encyclopedia.

Dick Todd 1951 (assumed coaching duties in week 4)

W 7-3 vs Chicago Cardinals

First Five: 3-2

Career: 5-4

::shrug::

Curly Lambeau 1952-53

W 23-7

First Five: 2-3

First Season: 4-8

Career with Redskins: 10-13-1

Cheers of "great hire!" slowly turn to on his way to retirement. I'd like to think this is what would happen if we hired Cowher.

Update: As it turned out, the owner caught some of the players drinking beer after a preseason game in violation of his policy and when he confronted the coach, a shoving match broke out. Lambeau was fired immediately. (per Redskins Encyclopedia)

Joe Kuharich 1954-58

L 41-7 at San Francisco 49ers

First Five: 0-5

First Season: 3-9

Career with Redskins: 26-32-2

Certainly not as bad as his start, I know we'd all be saying 0-16 with an opener like that.

Mike Nixon 1959-60

L 49-21 at Chicago Cardinals

First Five: 2-3

First Season: 3-9

Career: 4-18-2

In this case, true to how he looked.

Bill McPeak 1961-65

L 35-3 at San Francisco 49ers

First Five: 0-5 (9-game losing streak)

First Season: 1-12-1 (closed season with 34-24 win over Dallas)

Career: 21-46-3

I think those ones were in just the right spot, Dallas saved this guy's job.

Otto Graham 1966-68

L 38-14 vs Cleveland Browns

First Five: 3-2

First Season: 7-7

Career: 17-22-3

Vince Lombardi 1969 (what might have been)

W 26-20 at New Orleans Saints

First Five: 3-1-1

Career with Redskins: 7-5-2

This is the one guy who lived up to expectations right out of the gate but of course, he was no rookie.

Bill Austin 1970 (filling in for the late Lombardi)

L 26-17 at San Francisco 49ers

First Five: 2-3

Career with Redskins: 6-8

George Allen 1971-77

W 24-17 at St Louis Cardinals

First Five: 5-0

First Season: 9-4-1 lost divisional playoffs

Career with Redskins: 67-30-1, 2-5 Lost Super Bowl 7

Jack Pardee 1978-80

W 16-14 at New England Patriots

First Five: 5-0 (won six straight)

First Season 8-8 (Norvesque tanking of season)

Career with Redskins: 24-24-0

Joe Gibbs 1981-92

L 26-10 vs Dallas Cowboys

First Five: 0-5

First Season: 8-8

Career (first stint): 124-60-0, 16-5 3 Super Bowl Championships

Can you imagine if we had ESPN and the internet for his start?

Richie Petitbon 1993 (chosen successor)

W 38-16 vs Dallas Cowboys

First Five: 1-4

Career: 4-12

He wins the award for all-time best misleading first impression.

Norv Turner 1994-2000

L 28-7 vs Seatle Seahawks

First Five: 1-4

First Season: 3-13

Career with Redskins: 49-59-1, 1-1

Terry Robiskie 2000 (finishing out after Norv was fired)

L 32-13 at Dallas Cowboys

Career: 1-2 (won final game 20-3 vs Cardinals)

Marty Schottenheimer 2001

L 30-3 at San Diego Chargers

First Five: 0-5

Career with Redskins: 8-8-0

Those of you who wish we kept him, how did you feel week one?

Steve Spurrier 2002-03

W 31-23 vs Arizona Cardinals

First Five: 2-3

First Season: 7-9

Career: 12-20-0

If he lost badly, maybe then you could compare him to Zorn.

Update: Nevermind there, not sure what I was going for.

Joe Gibbs 2004-07

W 16-10 vs Tampa Bay Buccaneers

First Five: 1-4

First Season: 6-10

Career (2nd stint): 30-34-0, 1-2

I know we were all fired up after that first game, turned out both teams involved weren't too good.

Jim Zorn 2008-??

L 16-7 at New York Giants

First Five: 4-1

First Season: n/a

Career: 7-6

My point? I really don't think it is the least bit possible to guess how a coach's career is going to turn out from anything that happens in the first game, the first few weeks, or even the first full season. You get guys that win big early who turn out to be awful and other guys who start absolutely awful that end up winning you championships. A few guys do show their hand immediately for better or worse but even then, you will never know until it is all said and done. :helmet:

Info From:

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/teams.nsf/histories/redskins

First Five Update:

Well, another little bit of Zorn's place in history has been revealed to us and I think it is even better than any of us could have imagined so far. I know that when I started this thread, I was trying to pass on the inexplicable sense of confidence that I felt before and even after that first game but even I never even hoped for 4-1. I am going to maintain my reserved confidence for now, see you later on when I finish my fact-checking from that wonderful book (filled in some info about past coaches, corrected speculation) and again in week 17 when I can fill in the next slot.

Is this the best start since Jack Pardee or George Allen?

[pjfootballer]

I just can't believe we gave Norv Turner 7 years. About year 4, it was evident we weren't going anywhere with Mr. Milqtoast.

[skins4eva]

I just can't believe we gave Norv Turner 7 years. About year 4, it was evident we weren't going anywhere with Mr. Milqtoast.

John Cooke would have kept him until 2015 if he could have.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

John Cooke would have kept him until 2015 if he could have.

Yep, that was one reason I was glad Snyder took over the team when he did. Norv was a con-artist plain and simple. He would start off great, and end horribly, or vice versa. But you always would look at the strong start or finish and say, "He's gonna get it this year.", by year 4/5 of saying that, I was done with him.

[iMeast]

Yep to ^^^^^ :saintsuck

HTTR

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Joe Gibbs 1981-92

L 26-10 vs Dallas Cowboys

First Five: 0-5

First Season: 8-8

Career (first stint): 124-60-0, 16-5 3 Super Bowl Championships

Can you imagine if we had ESPN and the internet for his start?

In this week of all weeks, when hysteria on these here boards has gone psychotic, after ONE God darn game, NEVER was that tag line about Gibbs 1 more pertinent.

Great post CM916, a real interesting read on how our HC's started out. Be nice if some of us realised this isn't a one game fix thing, and new regimes take time, for both coaches and players, but ya' know,..... shrugs.

Hail.

BTW, for what my :2cents: is worth, looking at the schedule, i'm expecting 2-3 for the Z-Man after the first 5, maybes 3-2 if we get a break on the road, (this is the East, ANYTHING can happen), then 5-3/6-2 come halfway. If we get to that point at that, the business end of the year could be very interesting indeed.

[TheItalianStallion]

No disrespect, OP, because I think you make a good point, but I haven't seen many people on here saying that Zorn will be a failure. It's mostly been ratting on JC.

[Jimbo]

Bill McPeak 1961-65

L 35-3 at San Francisco 49ers

First Five: 0-5 (9-game losing streak)

First Season: 1-12-1 (closed season with 34-24 win over Dallas)

Career: 21-46-3

I think those ones were in just the right spot, Dallas saved this guy's job.

Another little known fact about Bill McPeak is that the Skins also started 0-5 in 1965, his final season as coach. The team went on to finish 6-3 that year, including a 34-31 come-from-behind victory over Dallas, to close out the season at 6-8.

The strong finish wasn't enough to save McPeak's job. The team improved to finish 7-7 the following year under offensive guru and former QB Otto Graham. Unfortunately, the team forgot how to play defense the following year, giving up 353 points or 25.2 per game, and finished with a 5-6-3 record.

It's kinda scary how often we've started off a season 0-5. I could see it happening again although I pray it doesn't. I'm not so sure this board could take it.

[CM916]

I had the theory behind this all along and wanted to get it posted during the late preseason panic but it takes a while to go through all that information and make assumptions. My tag lines were actually all done in a rush because my laptop battery was dying and I had a class to get to or else I might have done one for them all.

You do see more discussion of Campbell as opposed to Zorn at this point but a lot of it ultimately leads to criticism of Zorn for putting him on the field. It is my hope that this could provide some much needed perspective in the event that we continue to look inept offensively. Everyone loves to make snap judgements that come with the win now attitude but you really can't be certain about a coach until he hangs it up.

[CM916]

Updated for Zorn's first five games! Discuss.

(Also did a bit of fact checking on past coaches)

I assume the bench Campbell talk is overwith for the moment...