Todd McShady draft.... #21?

[Zarg]

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft08/insider/columns/story?columnist=mcshay_todd&page=mcshaymock0415&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft08%2finsider%2fcolumns%2fstory%3fcolumnist%3dmcshay_todd%26page%3dmcshaymock0415

[RDSKNfaithfull]

God I hope not :doh: I would much rather have Calais Campbell then Merling who saw very few double teams and has the least upside in my opinion of all the DE prospects that are projected to go in the first two rounds:doh:

[Smoot Point Really]

Campbell is more risky, but has more upside... I agree with RDSKNfaithfull (why the extra 'L'?).

[Never4get#21]

Im suprized because he's been high on Merling for weeks. His too options are Merling and Hardy. I like them both. Im not sold on Calias. He's more of a work in progress. He had one great year at miami. He couldnt handle the double in college. What makes you think he's going to be better as a pro?

The trend in the latest mocks have all the top tier CB falling to the 11-20s slot. I hope this mock is close. I could see Jenkins fall to us. I would rather draft a CB.

[jthor99]

Mich St Thomas certainly won't be there at 21. Personally, after reading the Foxsports article I think Campbell in the long run could be a better value. I haven't seen much film on Merling so I can't really comment my personal opinion on him, but I think Campbell is he adds some strength could seriously be a "rock star" type of DE. He also could move into the DT role on certain passing situation ala Justin Tuck.

I think the fact that our new Dline coach has experience working with him makes it more of a reason I see us drafting him at 21. He might be some rough spots during his rookie campaign, but I think overall he could do some serious damage in this league with the right coaching.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

(why the extra 'L'?).

I think one L was already in use so I added the second :doh: I regret it and am thinking of changing it to somthing different

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Im suprized because he's been high on Merling for weeks. His too options are Merling and Hardy. I like them both. Im not sold on Calias. He's more of a work in progress. He had one great year at miami. He couldnt handle the double in college. What makes you think he's going to be better as a pro?

The trend in the latest mocks have all the top tier CB falling to the 11-20s slot. I hope this mock is close. I could see Jenkins fall to us. I would rather draft a CB.

How is Campbell more of a work in progress than Merling? He had one great year compared to Merlings 0 or 1 if you really consider that a great year. As for double teams Merling doesn't face them and still had similar #'s to Campbell in his down year. Also I'm a Miami fan but Clemson was a much better team last year and Merling was not the center piece of their defense.

[[[ghost]]]

I'd rather not draft either Merling or Campbell. Both are quality projects in the 2nd, but wouldn't fit the bill for an immediate contribution. And by that, I mean I wouldn't expect them to get more than 3 sacks this coming season.

[JC2MOSS]

God I hope not :doh: I would much rather have Calais Campbell then Merling who saw very few double teams and has the least upside in my opinion of all the DE prospects that are projected to go in the first two rounds:doh:

You took the words right out of my mouth.

:point2sky

[JC2MOSS]

]']I'd rather not draft either Merling or Campbell. Both are quality projects in the 2nd' date=' but wouldn't fit the bill for an immediate contribution. And by that, I mean I wouldn't expect them to get more than 3 sacks this coming season.[/quote']

With P. Daniels in the rotation Campbell would add youth, size and yes.. Speed.

Keeping both players strong and healthy down the stretch. Factor in C. Wilson on obvious passing downs and the Redskins would have some serious versatility on the D-line.

:2cents:

[Never4get#21]

How is Campbell more of a work in progress than Merling? He had one great year compared to Merlings 0 or 1 if you really consider that a great year. As for double teams Merling doesn't face them and still had similar #'s to Campbell in his down year. Also I'm a Miami fan but Clemson was a much better team last year and Merling was not the center piece of their defense.

Campbell is big(6'8" 282lbs), slow(5.01 best forty time) and weak = work in progress. He need strength and conditioning. He has motivation issues that have him slated a late 1st possibly 2nd round pick. He was a top 5 pick last year. He can't beat the double and does not have the strength to power through so NO he can't play inside. His size makes him so intriguing Why? because if he ever does develope the strength, speed and technique he could have a promissing future.

Merling came to the combine with a hernia! Still participated in some drills and did well. He's alot faster(4.68 forty) and more agile (with the hernia) and was stronger 17 reps). Merling had a good year last year ( 78 tkls 51 solo 7 sacks 21 QB pressures ) vs Campbell sophomore (84 tkls 20 tfl 10.5 sacks 17 QB pressures). I had a sport hernia and played through it. It's not easy. For him to put up numbers like that is insane. He's improved each year, and he can beat the double. He puts constant pressure on the QB. He addressed the hernia so no real issues with health.

Ask yourself this?

If we draft either will they start?

I think Merling has a better chance than Calais.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

]']I'd rather not draft either Merling or Campbell. Both are quality projects in the 2nd' date=' but wouldn't fit the bill for an immediate contribution. And by that, I mean I wouldn't expect them to get more than 3 sacks this coming season.[/quote']

Yet you think Limas Sweed can come in and have a immediate impact at WR in the WCO ? :whoknows: We need a sturdy reciever who can take a slant and bounce off tackles and get YAC We have two guys who can run 9 routes already.

[RDSKNfaithfull]

Campbell is big(6'8" 282lbs), slow(5.01 best forty time) and weak = work in progress. He need strength and conditioning. He has motivation issues that have him slated a late 1st possibly 2nd round pick. He was a top 5 pick last year. He can't beat the double and does not have the strength to power through so NO he can't play inside. His size makes him so intriguing Why? because if he ever does develope the strength, speed and technique he could have a promissing future.

Merling came to the combine with a hernia! Still participated in some drills and did well. He's alot faster(4.68 forty) and more agile (with the hernia) and was stronger 17 reps). Merling had a good year last year ( 78 tkls 51 solo 7 sacks 21 QB pressures ) vs Campbell sophomore (84 tkls 20 tfl 10.5 sacks 17 QB pressures). I had a sport hernia and played through it. It's not easy. For him to put up numbers like that is insane. He's improved each year, and he can beat the double. He puts constant pressure on the QB. He addressed the hernia so no real issues with health.

Ask yourself this?

If we draft either will they start?

I think Merling has a better chance than Calais.

How often did Merling face double teams really? The real pass rushing threat for Clemson was Adams and then Sapp. Campbell was the player in Miami's front seven that teams game planned for, Merling was not the "star" that people planned for and you can compare Merlings stats to Calais's sophmore season and you prove that he has produced you compare them last year and they are still similar while Calais went against Left tackles and faced double teams a lot more than Merling. I could care less about combine numbers and could really care less if one guy had one more rep than the other on the Bench Press:doh: Calais is a victim of his own hype,

[JC2MOSS]

Calais is a victim of his own hype,

You are preachin to the choir brother!!!

:point2sky

[jthor99]

I personally rather have Jackson from USC over both of them. But, I think he will be gone by the time we pick in the second round. I also, think he could be a bit of a reach with that 21 pick ( I actually know he would be a reach in that first round).

[mistertim]

Yet you think Limas Sweed can come in and have a immediate impact at WR in the WCO ? :whoknows: We need a sturdy reciever who can take a slant and bounce off tackles and get YAC We have two guys who can run 9 routes already.

How would you define "immediate impact?" And why would a different WR we draft who can "take a slant and bounce off tackles and get YAC" be more likely to have an immediate impact? What do you mean by 9 routes? You mean you'd rather draft a WR who is more 1 dimensional? How does that make sense in the long run?

[RDSKNfaithfull]

How would you define "immediate impact?" And why would a different WR we draft who can "take a slant and bounce off tackles and get YAC" be more likely to have an immediate impact? What do you mean by 9 routes? You mean you'd rather draft a WR who is more 1 dimensional? How does that make sense in the long run?

I'm not in favor of drafting any reciever in round 1 but if we did take one it would be Thomas who would fit in a WCO and take slants and crossing patterns and turn them into big gaines. Sweed is a tall reciever but hes not very big and not built for crossing patterns and slants, Sweed won't be breaking a lot of tackles early in his career. What I meant by 9 routes was that we already have two recievers who can get down field and run those routes and I think that is the only thing Sweed will be good at his first few years. As for immediate impact it was in a response to ghost's post.

[[[ghost]]]

Yet you think Limas Sweed can come in and have a immediate impact at WR in the WCO ? :whoknows: We need a sturdy reciever who can take a slant and bounce off tackles and get YAC We have two guys who can run 9 routes already.

We need someone to give us solid hands, jump-ball ability, and the kind of guy who can be an endzone threat. Most importantly, someone to take the pressure off of Moss and Cooley, and also open things up for Randel El.

Yes, Limas Sweed would fit that bill. His balance reminds me of Plaxico Burress. We don't need a WR to give up 90+ receptions and 900+ yards, we need 50+ and 600+, but mostly, a first down threat and a TD threat.

As compared to Merling or Campbell, both of whom either offer little pass rush, or have a terrible work ethic and even worse measurables.

[JC2MOSS]

]']

As compared to Merling or Campbell' date=' both of whom either offer little pass rush, or have a terrible work ethic and even worse measurables.[/quote']

Dude.. :doh:

[mistertim]

Dude.. :doh:

Come on, do you really think Campbell isn't a major project? He is big. We get it. But he also isn't very strong for the size he is and he is going to need a lot of work in keeping his pad level low because he got too high and was stood up quite a bit in college...now imagine that against NFL Tackles. He was seen before as a freak of nature athlete but that apparently was mostly myth considering not only the numbers he put up at the combine but also how stiff and somewhat clumsy he looked during position drills.

Perhaps he can be coached into being a great DE, but why take that risk in the 1st round when there are so many successful or great DEs that came from later rounds? I'd rather grab a guy like Brian Johnston from Gardner-Webb with our comp 3rd than get Campbell in the 1st. Yes he is from a small school but the guy put up very good numbers considering he was double teamed on every play the past 2 years (7 sacks his Junior year, 6 his Senior, 23 QB hurries his Junior year, 22 his Senior, 14 tackles for loss his Junior year, 24 his Senior...and keep in mind that this is in 11 games, not 13), put up some eye opening numbers in his workout for scouts, and apparently looked very good in position drills. I'm sure he needs to be coached up and learn more technique but he seems to be more physically gifted than Campbell and could be a huge steal.

[adamyesme1111]

Come on, do you really think Campbell isn't a major project? He is big. We get it. But he also isn't very strong for the size he is and he is going to need a lot of work in keeping his pad level low because he got too high and was stood up quite a bit in college...now imagine that against NFL Tackles. He was seen before as a freak of nature athlete but that apparently was mostly myth considering not only the numbers he put up at the combine but also how stiff and somewhat clumsy he looked during position drills.

Perhaps he can be coached into being a great DE, but why take that risk in the 1st round when there are so many successful or great DEs that came from later rounds? I'd rather grab a guy like Brian Johnston from Gardner-Webb with our comp 3rd than get Campbell in the 1st. Yes he is from a small school but the guy put up very good numbers considering he was double teamed on every play the past 2 years (7 sacks his Junior year, 6 his Senior, 23 QB hurries his Junior year, 22 his Senior, 14 tackles for loss his Junior year, 24 his Senior...and keep in mind that this is in 11 games, not 13), put up some eye opening numbers in his workout for scouts, and apparently looked very good in position drills. I'm sure he needs to be coached up and learn more technique but he seems to be more physically gifted than Campbell and could be a huge steal.

Haha how did you reply to that :doh: face with all this?

I think he was saying that it was a retarded thing for ghost to say that they "offer little pass rush and bad measurables".

That was a pretty stupid thing to say IMO...

[mistertim]

Haha how did you reply to that :doh: face with all this?

I think he was saying that it was a retarded thing for ghost to say that they "offer little pass rush and bad measurables".

That was a pretty stupid thing to say IMO...

:laugh:

Well, I guess I prefer to reply to lack of substance with substance. Though I could have just kept it going with another face.

As far as his statement goes I think it was vague, yes. But not necessarily stupid or unfounded. Campbell DID have poor measurables and looked bad in position drills at the combine. As far as the pass rush I don't see either of them coming in and doing much, at least right off the bat. If I HAD to choose, I'd take Merling but I think he seems to be more of a run stuffer. He had a decent amount of sacks this past season but wasn't really double teamed very much, if at all. Campbell, IMO, has upside but is a major project at the next level and not worth a 1st round pick. If you want a project who could, with good coaching, be a great player at the next level it's better to do it in a later round. As I've said before I'm a fan of grabbing Brian Johnston, DE from Gardner-Webb with our comp 3rd. :2cents: