With Collins we finally have hope!!! Big D up next!! (merged)

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

So sick of you Collins bandwagoners! Campbell is the true starter and will be!

Yet another Campbell bandwagoner who is more concerned about their fair haired boy starting then they are about the success of our team. Campbell has been mediocre at best this season. Too many errant throws and turnovers along with poor ability of playing well when needed.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Ok Collins has played well. People on this forum talk like Jason Campbell is a bum. He's made mistakes just like any other young QB. Campbell has played well despite playing behind a terrible line and the runing game being terrible. Stevie wonder can see Campbell can play. That being said I'd let Collins stay the starter, this season because he's playing well. but next season I'd hand the job back to Campbell. He'll have a full year in the system and another summer to work out kinks and learn. He'll be a year wiser and he's more mobule then Collins.

Tell us, just how many free passes does Campbell get before he is donned a bust? The excuse that he is young and green is starting to sound tired, for good reason. :laugh: He's in year 3, 2nd as a starter. It's time we start seeing something other than excuses by his fans. Thankfully he is now sitting and watching as Collins (a lifelong backup) shows him how it is done. Sorry, just stating the scenario as I see it.

[bobzmuda]

Tell us, just how many free passes does Campbell get before he is donned a bust? The excuse that he is young and green is starting to sound tired, for good reason. :laugh: He's in year 3, 2nd as a starter. It's time we start seeing something other than excuses by his fans. Thankfully he is now sitting and watching as Collins (a lifelong backup) shows him how it is done. Sorry, just stating the scenario as I see it.

I don't know what you're arguing against. You keep setting up this strawman that folks are clamoring for JC now over TC. That's not the case. I haven't seen one post saying that as soon as JC is cleared he should start over TC. You're strawmanning because you just don't know any better or just to troll.

But, as I mentioned in my earlier post, you either lack fundamental debate and logic skills or English might not be your native language, so I'll help you along in this Jason Campbell discussion you seem to intend on having even in your own Todd Collins thread.

Since it seems everyone is in agreement that TC is the QB of the moment, and for the purpose of looking forward, it is now irrelevant what has happened earlier in the season, there's no sense in arguing that the choice of TC or JC is mutually exclusive and that the only "right" answer is TC. Everyone seems to agree TC is the QB for now, so let's move on from there and focus on what you seem to want to really discuss: the status of the QB position for the future.

First, let's get you to state your position on the QB position for the future (at least for the moment before you change it again ), what would you do at the end of this season since TC is a UFA?

Would you sign him to a multi-year deal to be the starter with starter money? Do you believe a "life long backup" is worth the cap risk to pay that much money given he has produced little over his career and given his age? If so, would you base this on his performance to date or would you expect more out of him in the remaining game(s)?

If you do sign TC, would you cut JC? Would you attempt to trade him? Would you attempt to develop as a backup QB until his contract has expired?

Do you think TC can duplicate his performance over an entire season? Do you think he duplicate such a performance if Saunders and his system were to leave? How long would you give Todd Collins to be able to perform at a sufficient level to be a starter? What would be your plan for the future of the QB position?

It does not appear from your many, many posts on the subject that you think Jason Campbell can develop into a viable option at QB for an NFL team. For argument's sake, we'll assume that to be true. Now the Skins have a 36 year old QB with no future viable QB for grooming. I'll further assume that you would not think Collins has much of a future after 3 or 4 more years. If I am wrong, and you think a 40 year old Collins would be effective, please correct me. The Skins have a huge hole at QB with an aging Collins and JC that has been released or traded. How would you plan right now on filling that future hole?

Thanks in advance for your considered and measured response.

[RF4L]

Let's roll into Big'D and give them the beatdown that they deserve.TC will finish off where JC failed to get it done last time and propel this team into the playoffs where anything can happen.

For info., the Cowboys are getting ready to roll into Big DC. We rolled into Big D weeks ago.

Unless, of course, you mean roll into and over Big D at Fedex. That sounds really good

[RF4L]

I don't know what you're arguing against. You keep setting up this strawman that folks are clamoring for JC now over TC. That's not the case. I haven't seen one post saying that as soon as JC is cleared he should start over TC. You're strawmanning because you just don't know any better or just to troll.

But, as I mentioned in my earlier post, you either lack fundamental debate and logic skills or English might not be your native language, so I'll help you along in this Jason Campbell discussion you seem to intend on having even in your own Todd Collins thread.

Since it seems everyone is in agreement that TC is the QB of the moment, and for the purpose of looking forward, it is now irrelevant what has happened earlier in the season, there's no sense in arguing that the choice of TC or JC is mutually exclusive and that the only "right" answer is TC. Everyone seems to agree TC is the QB for now, so let's move on from there and focus on what you seem to want to really discuss: the status of the QB position for the future.

First, let's get you to state your position on the QB position for the future (at least for the moment before you change it again ), what would you do at the end of this season since TC is a UFA?

Would you sign him to a multi-year deal to be the starter with starter money? Do you believe a "life long backup" is worth the cap risk to pay that much money given he has produced little over his career and given his age? If so, would you base this on his performance to date or would you expect more out of him in the remaining game(s)?

If you do sign TC, would you cut JC? Would you attempt to trade him? Would you attempt to develop as a backup QB until his contract has expired?

Do you think TC can duplicate his performance over an entire season? Do you think he duplicate such a performance if Saunders and his system were to leave? How long would you give Todd Collins to be able to perform at a sufficient level to be a starter? What would be your plan for the future of the QB position?

It does not appear from your many, many posts on the subject that you think Jason Campbell can develop into a viable option at QB for an NFL team. For argument's sake, we'll assume that to be true. Now the Skins have a 36 year old QB with no future viable QB for grooming. I'll further assume that you would not think Collins has much of a future after 3 or 4 more years. If I am wrong, and you think a 40 year old Collins would be effective, please correct me. The Skins have a huge hole at QB with an aging Collins and JC that has been released or traded. How would you plan right now on filling that future hole?

Thanks in advance for your considered and measured response.

People here are a trip. :laugh: We strike gold with our back-up QB and will secure a playoff berth with a 4th win in a row. :applause:

Yet, many wish to extrapolate recent events as a glimpse into the future and the possible ramifications, and will endlessly debate such.

F'n hilarious. :laugh:

[honeydont]

Yes and we have to give Al Sauders all the credit. It was Al who brought TC over here and it was Al who wanted TC to START two years ago for us, But Joe Gibbs wanted to try JC. So, thank Al Saunders for the TC connection. Where would we be with TC at the helm for two full seasons under his belt as the starter?

[KNGwithOUTaCrwN]

it jsut seems as though TC is pulling away before Rabach even ahs a chance to give it to him. TC def needs to work on that as it is the only real bad thing he has done in the game.hopefully it ownt happen thsi week. and 0 int

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Yes and we have to give Al Sauders all the credit. It was Al who brought TC over here and it was Al who wanted TC to START two years ago for us, But Joe Gibbs wanted to try JC. So, thank Al Saunders for the TC connection. Where would we be with TC at the helm for two full seasons under his belt as the starter? :)

Great point. Give Al Saunders his props. Too bad Joe Gibbs rolled the dice with Campbell. Although the fat lady has not sung as of yet - it does appear that JC is nothing special. Hope I'm wrong, but "flashes" of solid play doesn't cut it as we needed W's and JC couldn't deliver.

[skins island connection]

Well, the last few weeks have been a total turn-around for the

offense, as everyone could see, and to a point, i was surprised.

Now, Saunders has his QB in, who knows the playbook, and the

results are showing. no offense to JC, i hope he gets well

quickly, but moreso, i hope he pays close attention on how

Collins plays.

I have been on Saunders and Gibbs butt alot this year, but

now it is clear to me what the problem was. the receivers

are given the chance to go after and fight for the ball;

JC would not take chances like that, or it would be over-

thrown. so the playbook has been opened up alot more

and the offense is being mixed up, no routine playcalling

has been a blessing so i hope it continues...

:dallasuck SICK EM'

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

I don't know what you're arguing against. You keep setting up this strawman that folks are clamoring for JC now over TC. That's not the case. I haven't seen one post saying that as soon as JC is cleared he should start over TC. You're strawmanning because you just don't know any better or just to troll.

But, as I mentioned in my earlier post, you either lack fundamental debate and logic skills or English might not be your native language, so I'll help you along in this Jason Campbell discussion you seem to intend on having even in your own Todd Collins thread.

Since it seems everyone is in agreement that TC is the QB of the moment, and for the purpose of looking forward, it is now irrelevant what has happened earlier in the season, there's no sense in arguing that the choice of TC or JC is mutually exclusive and that the only "right" answer is TC. Everyone seems to agree TC is the QB for now, so let's move on from there and focus on what you seem to want to really discuss: the status of the QB position for the future.

First, let's get you to state your position on the QB position for the future (at least for the moment before you change it again ), what would you do at the end of this season since TC is a UFA?

Would you sign him to a multi-year deal to be the starter with starter money? Do you believe a "life long backup" is worth the cap risk to pay that much money given he has produced little over his career and given his age? If so, would you base this on his performance to date or would you expect more out of him in the remaining game(s)?

If you do sign TC, would you cut JC? Would you attempt to trade him? Would you attempt to develop as a backup QB until his contract has expired?

Do you think TC can duplicate his performance over an entire season? Do you think he duplicate such a performance if Saunders and his system were to leave? How long would you give Todd Collins to be able to perform at a sufficient level to be a starter? What would be your plan for the future of the QB position?

It does not appear from your many, many posts on the subject that you think Jason Campbell can develop into a viable option at QB for an NFL team. For argument's sake, we'll assume that to be true. Now the Skins have a 36 year old QB with no future viable QB for grooming. I'll further assume that you would not think Collins has much of a future after 3 or 4 more years. If I am wrong, and you think a 40 year old Collins would be effective, please correct me. The Skins have a huge hole at QB with an aging Collins and JC that has been released or traded. How would you plan right now on filling that future hole?

Thanks in advance for your considered and measured response.

All I know is that TC has proven that he should start the rest of this season. His performance has been hands down better than the erratic JC's. Next season? Who knows? Should Gibbs and Saunders still be here, my guess is that they will not be so patient with JC's everlasting learning curve. I doubt a 36 year old career backup is going to get serious interest in the free agent market. Hopefully they can re-sign him for a couple of years while we wait to see if JC will ever blossum (which many of us are beginning to doubt). I could be wrong, but I'm probably not.

Your rabid support of JC while shooting holes in TC's long term potential around here is baffling. Are you one of those fair weather fans who is more interested in seeing JC start than seeing our team actually winning games?

[bobzmuda]

All I know is that TC has proven that he should start the rest of this season. His performance has been hands down better than the erratic JC's. Next season? Who knows? Should Gibbs and Saunders still be here, my guess is that they will not be so patient with JC's everlasting learning curve. I doubt a 36 year old career backup is going to get serious interest in the free agent market. Hopefully they can re-sign him for a couple of years while we wait to see if JC will ever blossum (which many of us are beginning to doubt). I could be wrong, but I'm probably not.

Your rabid support of JC while shooting holes in TC's long term potential around here is baffling. Are you one of those fair weather fans who is more interested in seeing JC start than seeing our team actually winning games?

How come you can never talk about TC without it being in the the context of JC? TC is a player in his own right that deserves to be evaluated on his own merits and not constantly in the light of some "erratic" JC. You have constantly made your opinion known that JC is not a viable option at QB, but do you think so lowly of TC that you can only compare him to JC?

I even set up the questions just begging you to actually discuss TC's long-term potential but you refuse to do so.

The inevitable conclusion is that you're a one-trick pony, and a pretty poor one at that.

Keep posting and I'll be around to participate in your threads.

Also, since your posts always seem to involve the same basic content over and over and over, here's a handy FanSinceSonnyJ post template for you so you don't have to agonize about spending so much time over your latest creations.

Todd Collins is great. He's so much better than that [bum/loser/rapscallion] Jason Campbell who is [erratic/hopeless/too much of an Eriq LaSalle look a like] and would be lucky to carry [Tavaris Jackson's/Heath Shuler's/Pol Pot's] jock strap. Did you see the way Todd Collins did [insert some stat/happening from latest game]. If you ever think Jason Campbell could do something like that you're fooling yourself and you must be fairweather fan more interested in seeing JC start than the team doing well.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

How come you can never talk about TC without it being in the the context of JC? TC is a player in his own right that deserves to be evaluated on his own merits and not constantly in the light of some "erratic" JC. You have constantly made your opinion known that JC is not a viable option at QB, but do you think so lowly of TC that you can only compare him to JC?

I even set up the questions just begging you to actually discuss TC's long-term potential but you refuse to do so.

The inevitable conclusion is that you're a one-trick pony, and a pretty poor one at that.

Keep posting and I'll be around to participate in your threads.

Also, since your posts always seem to involve the same basic content over and over and over, here's a handy FanSinceSonnyJ post template for you so you don't have to agonize about spending so much time over your latest creations.

:laugh: Gee, sorry I'm not meeting your lofty expectations. Glad my opinion on JC is coming through. The endless excuses some of you give JC on why he couldn't get it done this year have worn thin on many of us. Collins comes in off the bench with arguably a worse situation JC had and makes this offense click on all cylnders. Now you guys want to shoot holes in him for being too old, for not being able to handle snaps, for supposedly now having a better supporting cast (as if our WR's catch his passes, but drop JC's), etc.

What is there to discuss about TC's long term goals that I have not covered? Not much to say other than he is 36 years old and probably will not garner much interest from other teams this offseason. I hope we re-sign him. I like the way he is able to make the offense work. My guess is Gibbs and Saunders feel the same way.

Actually a sound arguement can be made that it is you who is the one trick pony. Your mentality seems to be JC is a future HOFer and any opinions doubting such are way off base and must be rebutted with personal attacks.

Care to discuss your views on our QB position? Once you do, I'll be sure to weigh in with my thoughts. :dallasuck

[bobzmuda]

Actually a sound arguement can be made that it is you who is the one trick pony. Your mentality seems to be JC is a future HOFer and any opinions doubting such are way off base and must be rebutted with personal attacks.

Show me evidence anywhere were I have stated "JC is a future HOFer" and show me where anyone expressed doubts that "JC is a future HOFer" that I rebutted with a personal attack. I'll save you some time, there isn't any. Why do you continue to fabricate things and avoid direct questions that would cause you to fully elaborate on your views on the QB position?

Care to discuss your views on our QB position? Once you do, I'll be sure to weigh in with my thoughts. :dallasuck

I'll be happy to share my views on the QB position.

TC is the QB of the moment. He's played well enough to finish out the season, regardless of JC's health. I think, that at 36, he doesn't have much left, but that the Skins should try to sign him to a reasonable 2-year contract to compete for the QB spot next year. I doubt Collins has much value in any other system, so if Saunders goes, then, Collins goes.

To make the decision now to hitch the Redskins' long- (or medium-) term future to Collins at the expense of developing Campbell seems like a decision to win now and resign yourself to finding another QB to develop for the long term. I think JC has shown growth and progress. He certainly rates as one of the more promising young QBs compared to some of the other QBs in the league. QB is such a difficult position to fill that when you somehow get a young QB that shows promise, you have to give him every opportunity to develop. As such, Campbell has earned a place on this roster and consideration to be the starting QB for 2008 to continue his development, and is status as the QB to be developed for the long-term is cemented.

Now your turn. I know you've praised Collins, you've beaten that into the ground. What would you do about Jason Campbell? Oh, and try to make it consistent with what you've said before. If you can't, at least give me some reason why you've changed your mind.

Again, what would you do about Jason Campbell?