With Collins we finally have hope!!! Big D up next!! (merged)

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

The Redskins traded a 1st, a 3rd, and a 4th for the pick used to grab JC. That's a lot, no matter how you look at it. They should be reaping the rewards of such a trade by the end of Year 3.

Exactly. I'm so sick of the excuses on why he is not getting it done. "His passes are being tipped so the int's are not his fault", "the OL sucks", "Al Saunders O sucks", "he's just a 3rd year rookie, he needs more time", "the other teams are just too tough", etc., etc.

Bottom line is he just isn't getting it done.

TC is providing us hope and a chance at redeeming a very frustrating season. For this I'm quite thankful to say the least.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Seems we all are missing the biggest point in all of this, and that being the fact that TC has been in AS's offense for 9 years, that would should and did make him that much better in what he sees on game day, even without the game reps over the course of 9 plus years he prolly still has seen more practice snaps trying to simulate games than JC has has actually played in. those years of experience are def paying dividends for all of us fans right now. But with JC sitting and learning right now its only going to make him better when he gets back in there next year.

The longer Campbell "sits and learns" the better chance we currently have to be successful. :dallasuck

[cphil006]

Let's not overstate our dissappointment in our young QB. Campbell has some issues, but he's a lot better than Jackson.

With a better line, a better running game and comparable WRs, Jackson's numbers are far lower than Campbell's. His INT percentage is much higher. His TD percentage is lower. Campbell has thrown for about 1000 yards more in 2 more starts.

Campbell may not be a world beater, but he's a middle-of-the pack QB, whereas Jackson isn't even that.

Maybe with another few games and another offseason under his belt, he should be better.... we'll see. He is doing fine according to me.

[Henry]

Jason Cambell QB rating: 77.6 (3rd year in NFL)

Tavaris Jackson QB rating: 68.6 (2nd year in NFL)

Neither one of these guys is proving to be a "world beater".

Hopefully JC is reflecting and learning while watching TC getting it done on the field. We can only hope.

Campbell has thrown 471 passes and 11 INTs.

Jackson has thrown 263 passes and 12 INTs.

There's no pressure on Jackson. Defenses key on Peterson first, second and third. Jackson has a big bad OL that's not patched together with masking tape and chewing gum. All he has to do is throw a screen or quick slant a dozen times a game to keep defenses somewhat honest. Given these factors, Jackson's penchant for throwing errant passes is not 'like Campbell.'

That's all I'm saying.

[cphil006]

Exactly. I'm so sick of the excuses on why he is not getting it done. "His passes are being tipped so the int's are not his fault", "the OL sucks", "Al Saunders O sucks", "he's just a 3rd year rookie, he needs more time", "the other teams are just too tough", etc., etc.

Bottom line is he just isn't getting it done.

TC is providing us hope and a chance at redeeming a very frustrating season. For this I'm quite thankful to say the least.

We traded several draft picks for a starting QB. Not that bad. At least we didn't waste a top 5 on a bust. Shuler, Akili Smith, Harrington, Cade Mcnown...

He is our starting QB and not playing all that bad.

[cphil006]

Campbell has thrown 471 passes and 11 INTs.

Jackson has thrown 263 passes and 12 INTs.

There's no pressure on Jackson. Defenses key on Peterson first, second and third. Jackson has a big bad OL that's not patched together with masking tape and chewing gum. All he has to do is throw a screen or quick slant a dozen times a game to keep defenses somewhat honest. Given these factors, Jackson's penchant for throwing errant passes is not 'like Campbell.'

That's all I'm saying.

see what you saw on Sunday, who would you want as your starting QB between the two.

At least we don't have Heath SHuler.

[ttr77]

see what you saw on Sunday, who would you want as your starting QB between the two.

At least we don't have Heath SHuler.

Don't count your chickens yet. No one knows how the book on Campbell will turn out.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

We traded several draft picks for a starting QB. Not that bad. At least we didn't waste a top 5 on a bust. Shuler, Akili Smith, Harrington, Cade Mcnown...

He is our starting QB and not playing all that bad.

Huh? We mortgaged a couple years of high draft picks for Cambell!

He certainly didn't come cheap in terms of draft picks. Very dissapointing return on our investment to date.

[bjorasen_SWE]

I´d go with a 100% healthy TC in a rythm than JC coming of a knee injury anytime!

[GamaGoliath]

When the ball hits the QB in the hands he has to take the snap. It's fundamental stuff that Collins managed to muck up in pristine conditions and with the Redskins' playoff lives on the line.

I'm thrilled over the win and thought Collins played exceptionally well except for his unforced fumbles, that were fortunate not to bounce to the Vikings. It's one thing to get him from the blindside when the LT whiffs on a block and fumble, it's another thing to not be able to take a snap from center, especially in the biggest game of the year.

You sound somewhat like you're trying to gloss over the most elementary errors made at "crucial junctions of the game" that need obvious correction. Unless you're the type of fan of a player that's willing to overlook obvious mistakes of your favorite player just because the team managed to win it makes all of his other mistakes irrelevant.

Todd was great, but he needs to protect the football better.

It's called an agenda. That's why you will see the glossing over of such errors. If/when the Skins win their next game, expect to see another thread praising Collins with a backhanded comment about Campbell.

[cphil006]

letting Campbell sit and seeing how Collins makes decisions in this offense should help him.

I totally agree

[cphil006]

Huh? We mortgaged a couple years of high draft picks for Cambell!

He certainly didn't come cheap in terms of draft picks. Very dissapointing return on our investment to date.

A couple of yeras of high draft picks? for a starting QB. We are in the playoff hunt. We've been in every game we played except the Pats. Portis and Moss lost us the Green Bay game.

We have a QB. A starting QB. It cost us a first rounder. and couple of other later rounders.

Which is worse... wasting a 1st, 3rd, etc on Campbell or big money, 3rd and 4th on Lloyd...

lets bash the latter...

I think the return on investment has yet to be determined... We are a very competetive and good team... seems ok so far.

[bobzmuda]

Oh sheesh. You now want to disect my each sentence to somehow make a point that TC is not up for the job.

Wait, so now you don't want to be held accountable for what you write AND you ALSO want to use some strawman argument that I said TC is not up for the job? I never said TC was not up for the job. Re-read my posts. I think TC is doing great, but he has to take care of the football better than he has.

If you don't want to argue or discuss, go start a blog. If you do want to argue and discuss, you have to be prepared to have your arguments, and as a result, your conclusions, debated.

Is English your second language? If so, then maybe we can get through this learning process together, and we can help you learn some of the more fundamental aspects of discussion and logic. If English is not your native language, I will say that I admire your control of the language so far.

If English is indeed your first language, however, you are in dire need of some remedial lessons in debate and logic.

The good news is TC is not throwing interceptions and fumbling when under duress.

I still fail to see why you are differentiating when any QB doesn't take care of the ball, regardless of when it is under duress (such as when a LT whiffs on a block and the QB gets stripped and fumbles) or when it is under no duress whatsoever (such as when a QB muffs a non-faulty Center snap).

[cphil006]

It's called an agenda. That's why you will see the glossing over of such errors. If/when the Skins win their next game, expect to see another thread praising Collins with a backhanded comment about Campbell.

I know. I think our D deserves credit to holding Peterson to under 30 yards and our offense including Portis deserves credit for getting 100+ rushing yards on Vikings defense.

[Waleo32]

This is for the people who are trying to hate on Jason Campbell. Todd Collins has been in this offense for 10 plus years. Jason has been in the offense for two seasons. Jason has played well to win a number of games. The GB game, the Giant game (play calling) and many other games. A lot of interceptions that Jason has thrown where due to certain people not hustling and drops that happen to land into the defenders hands. Ask Santana Moss about that one he's done that pretty well. Campbell's only problems are the fumbles and he needs to get through his reads quicker. So please stop the hating. How many times have our WRs dropped the man's passes. The WRs, other than Cooley and Randel El,weren't helping Jason. Campbell is still the future. So if you want to give Collins his props please do so but not at Jason's expense. I'm a diehard Skins fan but I can understand why other fans of different teams think we are the worst fans.

[Henry]

Don't count your chickens yet. No one knows how the book on Campbell will turn out.

After 22 starts and four years, Shuler had a career rating of 54.3. It was never higher than 59.6 in any one year.

Campbell isn't even in the same neighborhood of ineptitude as Shuler was.

If a point is valid, it shouldn't need to be exaggerated, and all I read from Campbell critics these days is exaggeration.

[BMahoney]

You sound somewhat like you're trying to gloss over the most elementary errors made at "crucial junctions of the game" that need obvious correction. Unless you're the type of fan of a player that's willing to overlook obvious mistakes of your favorite player just because the team managed to win it makes all of his other mistakes irrelevant.

Todd was great, but he needs to protect the football better.

- I really hope JC isn't your favorite player

[BMahoney]

The three most common excuses for Campbell that are not true:

-Our receivers drop passes

-Ever thought that this might be due to the fact that JC throws a bullet when someone is 5 feet away from him, it makes the ball alot harder to catch. Collins has shown us with a little touch our receivers can catch balls.

-Our O-Line is depleted and he doesn't have time

-How come behind the same O Line Collins has enough time and never seems to be very rattled, or run out of the pocket for no reason. Campbell needs to start delivering the ball and taking the hit rather then running from the hit and just throwing the ball away.

-Your last excuse is that he is a work in progress, and is making improvement.

-But by looking at his stats Campbell's has made little to no progress all season, he's only had two games without a pick and lost a fumble in each. Campbell doesn't seem to understand the speed of the nfl and though he may have the god given build and talent, I don't know if he'll ever have the smarts to play arguably the most difficult position in all of sports.

[ttr77]

After 22 starts and four years, Shuler had a career rating of 54.3. It was never higher than 59.6 in any one year.

Campbell isn't even in the same neighborhood of ineptitude as Shuler was.

If a point is valid, it shouldn't need to be exaggerated, and all I read from Campbell critics these days is exaggeration.

OK...Campbell is not as bad as Shuler. But that ain't sayin' so much.

[spearhead]

The three most common excuses for Campbell that are not true:

-Our receivers drop passes

-Ever thought that this might be due to the fact that JC throws a bullet when someone is 5 feet away from him, it makes the ball alot harder to catch. Collins has shown us with a little touch our receivers can catch balls.

-Our O-Line is depleted and he doesn't have time

-How come behind the same O Line Collins has enough time and never seems to be very rattled, or run out of the pocket for no reason. Campbell needs to start delivering the ball and taking the hit rather then running from the hit and just throwing the ball away.

-Your last excuse is that he is a work in progress, and is making improvement.

-But by looking at his stats Campbell's has made little to no progress all season, he's only had two games without a pick and lost a fumble in each. Campbell doesn't seem to understand the speed of the nfl and though he may have the god given build and talent, I don't know if he'll ever have the smarts to play arguably the most difficult position in all of sports.

BMahoney you just hit the nail on head with that post.

[RedlightG20]

I'll take a stab at this...

The three most common excuses for Campbell that are not true:

-Our receivers drop passes

-Ever thought that this might be due to the fact that JC throws a bullet when someone is 5 feet away from him, it makes the ball alot harder to catch. Collins has shown us with a little touch our receivers can catch balls.

These are professional athletes, not exactly what you find in the schoolyard on a Tuesday afternoon. WRs are paid millions to catch bullets. Professional baseball players have to hit the ball smaller than your fist traveling in excess of 100mph. The pitcher also has to have the quick reaction to catch a hit ball that is drilled at his head a second after he throws it. In essence, I think a professional receiver can catch a large football with gloves on at a fraction of the speed.

-Our O-Line is depleted and he doesn't have time

-How come behind the same O Line Collins has enough time and never seems to be very rattled, or run out of the pocket for no reason. Campbell needs to start delivering the ball and taking the hit rather then running from the hit and just throwing the ball away.

The right side of the line has been interchanged often through the beginning-middle of this season. This is also evidenced by the improved play of Heyer and Fabini. The offensive line relies heavily on continuity and teamwork to be successful as a unit. This has improved greatly in the past month. Also, through the whole first half the year, everyone on here, as well as the media, have been praising JC for his "poise" in the pocket and under pressure. Frankly I was tired of hearing the word used so often, but it was used with good reason.

-Your last excuse is that he is a work in progress, and is making improvement.

-But by looking at his stats Campbell's has made little to no progress all season, he's only had two games without a pick and lost a fumble in each. Campbell doesn't seem to understand the speed of the nfl and though he may have the god given build and talent, I don't know if he'll ever have the smarts to play arguably the most difficult position in all of sports.

Many games this season came down to the wire. Even with a banged up line, receivers dropping the ball, and any other excuses you may want to displace, Campbell didn't do much in the ways of "losing" us any games. Certainly there were untimely fumbles and INTs, but really, how many times were we within striking distance of a win? The first Giants game you could attribute to Campbell leading us to the 1-yard-line, then we decide to run it and couldn't punch it in. The first Eagles game, JC shined on MNF. The Dallas game, our defense forgot to guard TO, but in the end JC threw that pick to Newman, but frankly we shouldn't have been in that position to begin with. The Green Bay game, JC outplayed Favre but we lost on a Moss fumble in wet conditions.

We can keep going on discussing whether JC gives us winning chances. A few big games and I see a guy that is just a few plays away from giving us three or four more wins. It seems to me that you are looking at a guy that is going to show no improvement and perhaps get worse as time goes on.

I may not have much evidence to state that his stock is continuously on the rise, but do you have much evidence saying that he's going nowhere in his career? This is a guy that hasn't even played a full season yet in an offense that is said to take three years to learn. I just don't get it.

[Buck812]

Wow! What a great win Sunday night!! Gibbs had the team ready to go on both sides of the ball.

Todd Collins played another brilliant game with ZERO interceptions and the result was a big time win over the Vikes at their home venue. Smart decisions, quick reads and releases, and accurate passes along with a game plan that stuffed Adrian Peterson assured us of the W. Greg Williams took a page out of what opposing defenses had been doing to our team as of late - stuffing the running game and daring JC to beat us through the air. Tavaris Jackson (like Jason Campbell) was not up for the task. Sure the guy has talent (just as Campbell does), but has a tendency of taking too long to make decisions and makes bonehead mistakes or errant passes from time to time. Sound familiar?

I see no reason to make any change at the QB position as long as Collins continues to win ball games and not make mistakes. My guess is Joe Gibbs is thinking the same way, but just isn't ready to say so until he has to. Hopefully Jason Campbell is learning how it is supposed to be done while watching Collins lead us to weekly victories.

Next up is Big D. A herculean effort will be needed to beat these guys no matter how serious Dallas takes the game. Thankfully it looks as if we have a QB under center who just may be up for the task.

The first few of these type threads were simply ridiculous yet gave me some good laughs... Now they are just obsessive. You guys need to lighten up a little and be less concerned about which QB is going to be starting in the playoffs and more about whether we make the playoffs or not. :doh:

[heatman28]

So sick of you Collins bandwagoners! Campbell is the true starter and will be!

[ttr77]

So sick of you Collins bandwagoners! Campbell is the true starter and will be!

Campbell ain't starting this week. And probably not in the playoffs if they go.

Perhaps we should ALL get on the Collins bandwagon until it is derailed.

[DCMONEY]

Ok Collins has played well. People on this forum talk like Jason Campbell is a bum. He's made mistakes just like any other young QB. Campbell has played well despite playing behind a terrible line and the runing game being terrible. Stevie wonder can see Campbell can play. That being said I'd let Collins stay the starter, this season because he's playing well. but next season I'd hand the job back to Campbell. He'll have a full year in the system and another summer to work out kinks and learn. He'll be a year wiser and he's more mobule then Collins.