TennesseeCarl Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Let's say Spurrier truly is itching to reunite with Rex Grossman. I don't imagine we'd have a lot of trouble getting him in the second round. But it sends a clear message to Ramsey. Much as I dislike the notion that you have to worry about QBs psyches, in this league it appears to be a real consideration (although why it isn't for guards or TEs, for example, is beyond me). If we ruin Ramseys confidence and end up with Grossman and he turns out to be another in the long, long string of Gator QBs who don't set the NFL on fire, where are we? I could see this Grossman scenario playing out as an absolute nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFul Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Originally posted by TennesseeCarl Let's say Spurrier truly is itching to reunite with Rex Grossman. I don't imagine we'd have a lot of trouble getting him in the second round. But it sends a clear message to Ramsey. Much as I dislike the notion that you have to worry about QBs psyches, in this league it appears to be a real consideration (although why it isn't for guards or TEs, for example, is beyond me). If we ruin Ramseys confidence and end up with Grossman and he turns out to be another in the long, long string of Gator QBs who don't set the NFL on fire, where are we? I could see this Grossman scenario playing out as an absolute nightmare. You'd be right where the Dallas Cowboys are with their QBs. Bring in 2 young guys with talents and that fully expect to start, watch as their confidence gets crushed and they start looking over their shoulders at each other, or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TennesseeCarl Posted December 21, 2002 Author Share Posted December 21, 2002 Whoa...nice analogy, chrisful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFul Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 The Redskins should not even think about a QB, even if its Spurriers' boy. They got a 1st round talent in Ramsey, now you either need a veteran to start ahead of him or back him up. If you start drafting young guys to compete with each other at QB, you are going to end up with a whole lotta nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 I don't know, on the one hand you want a quality backup and on the other hand you don’t want to mess up your starters psyche. I think the answer can be found by looking at the game of football and recognizing it for what it is. The game is pure competition. All those X's and O's are simply the mechanics of that competition that we call a football game. The small percentage of human beings that make it to the NFL understand competition because it is woven into the very fabric of their lives. This is not a touchy feely game we are talking about, it's a bone crushing, brain bashing sport. As such injuries happen so substitutions are needed from time to time. So, it comes down to competition, how bad do you want to win? Bad enough to tolerate another quality player in line behind you, one that can come in and continue what you have started so your hard work won't go to waste which may be a drive toward the big dance? Teams should not limit the quality of the team they put on the field because a players psyche might get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboykiller Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 As much as that makes sense Tex, it's just not true under a Spurrier regime. If we draft Grossman, you KNOW spurrier will start alternating from week to week, and niether QB will be able to get into a flow. Say Ramsey plays well for 5 weeks, then has two off weeks in a row. Spurrier will start thinking about Grossman, and will start making public statements that he's thinking about making a QB switch. The next game, St. Patrick will go out there and have to watch every single throw he makes and he will be playing NOT to make a mistake, which we all know will lead to mistakes. It wont work. Do NOT draft Grossman. He was a product of the system and is another Spurrier boy who will blow in the NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eparadox Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 I totally agree. I doubt Patrick would mind competition from any quarterback OTHER than Grossman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Om Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 What I don't want to see is TWO young QB's here in 2003. I want SS to decide between now and April if he is prepared to turn over his team to Ramsey. If he is, I want to see him go out and get an experienced NFL guy to be the classic NFL backup, not a guy coming in with the expectation of starting. If he is not, then I want him to go out and find a veteran who can start for a year or two while either a) he continues to groom Ramsey if he thinks it is just a matter of seasoning, or if he thinks he can land a young gun in the draft, try to trade Ramsey for either picks to ameliorate using another high pick on the QB position, or a player or two at other need positions that we may not be able to draft. I think this team would really, really benefit from having a clear cut starter in 2003 and beyond. The QB Carousel needs to end. There will apparently be precious little carryover stability at the WR or RB positions ... time to put down an anchor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljer Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Exactly OM, This revolving door has got to stop. Pick a guy and go with him. It's been waaay too long :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tex Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Originally posted by cowboykiller As much as that makes sense Tex, it's just not true under a Spurrier regime. If we draft Grossman, you KNOW spurrier will start alternating from week to week, and niether QB will be able to get into a flow. Say Ramsey plays well for 5 weeks, then has two off weeks in a row. Spurrier will start thinking about Grossman, and will start making public statements that he's thinking about making a QB switch. The next game, St. Patrick will go out there and have to watch every single throw he makes and he will be playing NOT to make a mistake, which we all know will lead to mistakes. It wont work. Do NOT draft Grossman. He was a product of the system and is another Spurrier boy who will blow in the NFL. There is truth in what you said cowboykiller. The temptation to play Grossman will be tremendous, and may it be more than Spurrier could resist. Eparadox, Om and ljer's comments make sense as well. Glad I'm not the person that has to make these kinds of decisions. Guess that’s why they get paid the big bucks. Hail! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisFul Posted December 21, 2002 Share Posted December 21, 2002 Originally posted by tex I don't know, on the one hand you want a quality backup and on the other hand you don’t want to mess up your starters psyche. I think the answer can be found by looking at the game of football and recognizing it for what it is. The game is pure competition. All those X's and O's are simply the mechanics of that competition that we call a football game. The small percentage of human beings that make it to the NFL understand competition because it is woven into the very fabric of their lives. This is not a touchy feely game we are talking about, it's a bone crushing, brain bashing sport. As such injuries happen so substitutions are needed from time to time. So, it comes down to competition, how bad do you want to win? Bad enough to tolerate another quality player in line behind you, one that can come in and continue what you have started so your hard work won't go to waste which may be a drive toward the big dance? Teams should not limit the quality of the team they put on the field because a players psyche might get hurt. That sounds all well and good, but honestly, how "Quality" is a rookie QB going to be? He's not, he's gonna suck 9 times out of 10. Youre right, football is a brainbashing sport, at the essence of which is competition. But the last thing your young QB needs is to be constantly looking over his shoulder, wondering if his team, coaches, and/or front office believe in him...and to start pressing in order to compensate for it. Why do you think teams like to sit their 1st round draft pick QBs for a season or two (if they can afford to do so)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesome Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 I hate all this Grossman talk. He's probably not even coming out this year anyway, so just shut up all you's out there who think SS is going to draft him. Patrick is his boy. Now, surround him with talent and see what he can do with a full offseason under his belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GatorEye Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 There's nothing wrong with getting someone like Grossman, especially if it's in the late 3rd or 4th round. However, my slant is that if Ramsey couldn't handle the fact that Grossman was behind him then he probably doesn't have the mental fortitude to play for Spurrier in the first place. If he does, the competition will only make him better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Steve Walsh was Jimmy Johnson's boy. Troy Aikman was more talented. Walsh came in. Aikman won out. Aikman's confidence wasn't destroyed. His character as a strong leader who could handle pressure and come out of it on top became the overriding trait that came from that competition. If Grossman comes in and Ramsey crumbles while Grossman turns out to be the typical Florida QB who can't play in the NFL, then the Redskins are left in the LUCKY position of knowing immediately it needs to find a different player at that position without killing itself by sinking millions into a guy who can't even compete for his job without choking which means he can't win a playoff game on the road without having a problem either. I don't view Hutchinson and Carter in Dallas as a similar concept here. First, Hutchinson is a better prospect than Carter in terms of arm strength and general accuracy with the ball. In the case of Grossman coming here to compete against Ramsey, the advantage as a prospect in terms of physical talent belongs to Ramsey. Unlike Johnson who had to look at a breathtaking physical talent like George behind him, Ramsey would know from the first day that his competition couldn't match him on the field throwing the football. This is an advantage Aikman had over Walsh too and it tends to breed confidence immediately. Secondly, Carter never really showed the big-time NFL potential that Ramsey has already laid out and that Hutchinson has had in flashes. Carter would make a nice throw on occasion on bombs, but, he simply lacked any real QB field skills and was never as good a prospect coming out as his competition was viewed as. This breeds doubt. Also, I think the advantage in Dallas to this point favors the Cowboys move to protect themselves against Carter's failure. Though Hutchinson is clearly regressing as teams are exploiting his weaknesses, the Cowboys couldn't have thought Carter was the answer entering the season. Carter only had ONE 200 yard passing game in eight starts. Ramsey has surpassed that already and, heck, even in a single half he's outperformed Carter's rookie year full games. Ramsey has flashed the potential to be the leader. Ramsey has flashed the potential to be the future. Ramsey has probably earned NOT to have competition like Grossman brought in. He's not Quincy Carter who was so weak he begged competition at the spot in an intelligent football decision. Like Aikman, there were a lot more questions about his performance and Carter's performance than there are right now about Ramsey's. That could rapidly change. But, right now, I think that's a bad comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prophet Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 if a qb is that babyish that he can't perform under pressure(another good qb)... why do we even want him to begin with? he will totaly crack with a meaningful game on the line... I hate this ... if we get so and so... patrick boy will cry and play bad... that is beyond stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsanity56 Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 help OOOOPPPPSSSSS please delete pressed wrong key Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panel Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 I doubt Mathews will be here next year, so we'll probibly need another QB, but drafting one in the 1st or 2nd round is the wrong thing to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baralufficus Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Originally posted by TennesseeCarl Let's say Spurrier truly is itching to reunite with Rex Grossman. I don't imagine we'd have a lot of trouble getting him in the second round. But it sends a clear message to Ramsey. Much as I dislike the notion that you have to worry about QBs psyches, in this league it appears to be a real consideration (although why it isn't for guards or TEs, for example, is beyond me). If we ruin Ramseys confidence and end up with Grossman and he turns out to be another in the long, long string of Gator QBs who don't set the NFL on fire, where are we? I could see this Grossman scenario playing out as an absolute nightmare. I wouldn't be upset ....IF Spurrier named Ramsey the starter , while Grossman learns the NFL...He could be a very good Back-up QB....But only if Ramsey is the go to guy next season ...None of that earning the starting role crap...HTTR!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baralufficus Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 Originally posted by panel I doubt Mathews will be here next year, so we'll probibly need another QB, but drafting one in the 1st or 2nd round is the wrong thing to do. I agree ...I think we need to fill other holes that this team has ....Plus , I think Ramsey has left a mark out there on the field ...And Spurrier is starting to look pleased...As long as he sticks with him ...HTTR!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted December 22, 2002 Share Posted December 22, 2002 TennesseeCarl You are the most depressing, pessimistic person I know of. Consider that reality and facts aren't enough for you. Now you are inventing posible futures and taking them to thier worst posible conclusion.:doh: :gus: :shootinth Don't consider this as me ragging on you.:laugh: Think of it as me trying to wake you up out of a bad nightmare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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