KSU prof defends right to free speech

[Sarge]

Hopefully this guy will have a fatal accident sometime crossing the street

Unbelieveable he's alllowed to teach kids, or even be around them

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/education/16817462.htm

He denies backing jihad but declines to say whether he authored controversial Web postings

By Carol Biliczky

Beacon Journal staff writer

Kent State denies ties to jihadi site

A Kent State University faculty member accused of authoring an anti-American Web site said Thursday he ``absolutely'' does not support jihad, even though his photo and writings by him appear on the site.

Julio Pino, 46, said he calls the truth as he sees it.

``I am not the issue,'' he said calmly as he prepared for a class in Afro-Latin American History in KSU's Business Administration building. ``The issue is free speech.''

The associate professor of history has been the center of a firestorm since a columnist on the conservative Web site Townhall.com connected him to a jihadist news service Wednesday. The blogger's views were picked up by the Drudge Report and spread from there.

By Thursday night, Kent State had received a flood of calls and e-mails calling for Pino's dismissal, spokesman Ron Kirksey said.

The university issued a terse news release distancing itself from the extremist Islamic Web site and said that Pino's views did not represent those of the university.

The global-war.bloghi.com Web site is a collection of stories, columns and poetry that provide ``battle dispatches, training materials and jihad videos to our brothers worldwide.''

The blog includes a head shot of Ahmed al-Haznawi, one of the hijackers of United Flight 93 on Sept. 11, 2001.

On Thursday, Pino declined to comment when asked about a photo on the speech section of the Web site that shows him addressing a crowd of students in Kent State's Risman Plaza.

The site also includes a letter that Pino wrote under his name last year to the student-run newspaper the Daily Kent Stater. The same letter on the jihadist Web site is attributed to ``Lover of Angels'' but does not mention Kent State or Pino.

``You attack, and continue to attack, us everywhere,'' reads the letter on the Web site and in the student newspaper. ``The ill done to the Muslim nations must be requited. The Muslim child does not cry alone; the Muslim woman does not cry alone; and the Muslim man is already at your gates.''

The Web site attributes three other postings on its speech page to the unidentified Lover of Angels, one of which reads, ``Bush, why don't you tell your people that your soldiers are committing suicide, taking drugs and hallucination pills to make them sleep? By God, your dreams will be defeated by our blood and by our bodies.''

Pino declined to comment when asked if he was Lover of Angels.

``The site is culled from news sources all over the Web, from the Times of London to the Times of India,'' he said. ``Whatever else is on there I have no comment.''

Pino has been the flash point for other controversies in recent years, usually for writing letters to the student newspaper that others found objectionable.

Perhaps the most controversial one, in 2002, eulogized an 18-year-old suicide bomber and led to calls for his dismissal.

He joined Kent in 1992 after receiving a doctorate at the University of California at Los Angeles. He converted to Islam in 2000.

He received tenure -- a coveted academic appointment that in essence means lifetime employment -- several years ago for significant research and professional activities.

He makes $63,846 a year, Kirksey said.

John Jameson, the head of Pino's department, has defended him as a good teacher.

On Thursday, students in his afternoon class agreed.

``He's a good professor,'' said Chris Sutherland, a senior from Cuyahoga Falls. ``He's got a broad outlook, and he seems to know what he's talking about. He's funny, goofy.''

Bill Hammerstorm, a senior from Hudson, said he was ``completely surprised'' to see Pino linked to a jihadist Web site.

``It doesn't seem like it would be him,'' he said.

In a media release, KSU officials did not comment directly on the clamor to dismiss Pino.

``As any employer, when deciding whether an employee should be terminated, we have a responsibility to follow proper processes,'' the release said.

[Larry]

KSU prof defends right to free speech

Hopefully this guy will have a fatal accident sometime crossing the street

Unbelieveable he's alllowed to teach kids, or even be around them

(Sarge advocates death and suppression).

Nothing new here.

[Sarge]

KSU prof defends right to free speech

(Sarge advocates death and suppression).

Nothing new here.

Death to the enemies of my country?

You betcha

[Larry]

Death to the enemies of my country?

You betcha

So, does it bother you that you're constantly in a position, in these "debates", in which one "side" is pointing to, and advocating for, the Constitution, and that you're always on the other side?

[No_Pressure]

I think that the KSU professor is right, he has his right to free speech.

Just like that story about the mormon girl who said "thats gay" and is being sued.

I don't get why the same people that said the girl was awful for using gay as a derogatory term would turn around in the same breath and support a guy who is using all sorts of derogatory terms in relation to this country. Not to say that has happened here, but everyone knows it is inevitable.

They both have a right to say whatever the hell they want, the guy can talk, that doesn't stop him from being a jerk or force anyone else to listen.

[Sarge]

I think that the KSU professor is right, he has his right to free speech.

Just like that story about the mormon girl who said "thats gay" and is being sued.

I don't get why the same people that said the girl was awful for using gay as a derogatory term would turn around in the same breath and support a guy who is using all sorts of derogatory terms in relation to this country. Not to say that has happened here, but everyone knows it is inevitable.

They both have a right to say whatever the hell they want, the guy can talk, that doesn't stop him from being a jerk or force anyone else to listen.

Kids are forced to listen to him

[No_Pressure]

Kids are forced to listen to him

I'm a college student. If I don't like a teacher and don't want to take a class with that teacher I can switch out of the class. All different teacher have all different views, styles of teaching, etc. If you don't want them you have a choice to go to a different class, I gaurantee he is not the only teacher for that class at that school. If enough people leave his class it sends a message to the school administration and he gets fired. Obviously that hasn't happened yet because enough people wanted to sit in his class and hear what he had to say.

Its college...nobody is forced to do anything.

[D'Pablo]

I find the fact that he has training materials for the enemy (no, I don't agree with the war... but I especially don't like seeing soldiers killed) as something that warrants sedition. Seriously, this guy crossed a line from free speech to something that could be killing people on the front lines.

[Temple]

But nothing in the article actually linked the professor to the inflammatory posts themselves; all he's done so far is refuse to comment on them.

You're just jumping...

to conclusions.

[Teller]

So, does it bother you that you're constantly in a position, in these "debates", in which one "side" is pointing to, and advocating for, the Constitution, and that you're always on the other side?

So if Sarge was a tenured professor, and advocated the same views that he does here on ES, would you be equally supportive of him?

[Larry]

So if Sarge was a tenured professor, and advocated the same views that he does here on ES, would you be equally supportive of him?

So far, I haven't seen the Professor advocating people deaths, the wholesale use of nuclear weapons to wipe out an entire culture, concentration camps, the disappearance of people, government-sponsored torture, the end of the entire Constitution except for the Second Amendment, or government abolishment of dissent.

(But I do agree, the folks who are advocating for the rights of minorities to speak out are usually the minorities. When people become the majority, minority rights become a lot less important. See: Congress.)

Yes, I got your point: Freedom of Speech has limits. Calling for the death of people who disagree with the teacher's politics, I think we can agree is over the line.

I also think people would agree that where the line is varies depending on the audience.

Things that are tolerable on an internet message board, where people have the right to offer rebuttal opinions, aren't necessarily acceptable in situations where the flow of information is designed to be much more one-way, and where one person has been granted the power to punish dissent.

But on the balance, I'd say "yes", for the same reason I believe he has the right to post his hate here. Freedom of Speech includes speech you don't like. And, has been pointed out, college students are theoretically adults, and theoretically have the right to argue with the Professor.

(Now, if your hypothetical had been a High School setting, I suspect I'd have disagreed, but I'd have to see one particular item of speech, rather than simply my gut-level opinion of Sarge's posts as a whole.)

[Teller]

That's precisely the response I expected from you, Larry, and that's a compliment.

When I read your prior post, I was thinking "free speech protects the speech you DON'T like." To see you say the same thing, almost verbatim is refreshing to say the least.

I think the reason so many of us conservatives get so frustrated in situations like these is that they always seem to go against us. The hate-filled ramblings of uber-conservative professors are few and far between, but the Ward Churchill's of the academic community seem to be growing in numbers exponentially. (Like I said, that's how it SEEMS. Maybe it's just the reporting of it that's growing, I don't know. But the point remains the same. It always seems to be from the left-wing loons, rather than our own loons.)

As for the left-loons not advocating for the deaths of people and abolishment of dissent, I respectfully disagree. What about good ol' professor Kambon advocating the death of ALL whites? I remember that being explained away by a lot of left-leaning ESers, since it isn't theoretically possible.

Hate is hate. Wrong is wrong. An agenda is an agenda, whether it comes from the left or the right. To me, the goal of our universities (especially publicly-funded universities) is to provide as non-partisan a perspective as humanly possible. It's to provide our young people with the best information to make their own well-formed decisions about where they stand. I wouldn't advocate for "forcing" our ideals on our students, no matter which side of the aisle we come from.

Also, you know as well as I do, that freedom of speech as provided in the First Amendment is a matter of legal right. This professor won't go to jail for expressing his (IMO) irrational views, nor should he. He's entitled to act like an idiot if he so chooses. However, I also support the idea of a capitalist system and therefore private enterprise. If Kent State sees fit to ****-can this guy because he's a fool, they've got every right to do so.

As far as I'm concerned he can preach free speech all day to the others in the unemployment line.

[LeesburgSkinFan]

National Guard 4

Kent State 0

[Temple]

National Guard 4

Kent State 0

Murder is AWESOME!

[#98QBKiller]

National Guard 4

Kent State 0

I dare someone to top that post.

[Sarge]

So far, I haven't seen the Professor advocating people deaths, the wholesale use of nuclear weapons to wipe out an entire culture, concentration camps, the disappearance of people, government-sponsored torture, the end of the entire Constitution except for the Second Amendment, or government abolishment of dissent.

(But I do agree, the folks who are advocating for the rights of minorities to speak out are usually the minorities. When people become the majority, minority rights become a lot less important. See: Congress.)

Yes, I got your point: Freedom of Speech has limits. Calling for the death of people who disagree with the teacher's politics, I think we can agree is over the line.

I also think people would agree that where the line is varies depending on the audience.

Things that are tolerable on an internet message board, where people have the right to offer rebuttal opinions, aren't necessarily acceptable in situations where the flow of information is designed to be much more one-way, and where one person has been granted the power to punish dissent.

But on the balance, I'd say "yes", for the same reason I believe he has the right to post his hate here. Freedom of Speech includes speech you don't like. And, has been pointed out, college students are theoretically adults, and theoretically have the right to argue with the Professor.

(Now, if your hypothetical had been a High School setting, I suspect I'd have disagreed, but I'd have to see one particular item of speech, rather than simply my gut-level opinion of Sarge's posts as a whole.)

Don't worry Larry. One day when I'm president, I'll personally check in on you when your in a camp. Make sure they're teaching you things properly, like the Pledge of Allegience, a little loyality to your country, what sedition is, things like that.

And if they water board you too much, I'll tell the camp adminstrators to cut back to no more than 2 minutes a shot

[Sarge]

Awwwww. It appears someone took down the poor little jihadi's site

Boo friggin hoo