Foxsports.com : Eagles OLine Nasty

[Number5]

Good article about the Eagles OLine. I'm postive Bubba won't agree with the article, but it's nice to read that folks outside of the city are noticing that they are very very good.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/6360146

Guys up front often go unnoticed

Associated Press

Posted: 11 hours ago

PHILADELPHIA (AP) - They're big and nasty, quiet and unassuming, and rarely get attention unless they make a mistake.

Quarterbacks hold weekly news conferences, wide receivers and running backs are bombarded with microphones and tape recorders daily, and even kickers and punters get more face time before cameras.

Hardly anyone talks to the offensive linemen - partly because they like it that way.

The Philadelphia Eagles have won six straight games and advanced to the second round of the NFC playoffs against the New Orleans Saints on Saturday night largely because of the outstanding performance of an unheralded offensive line.

Veteran tackles Jon Runyan and William (Tra) Thomas, center Jamaal Jackson and guards Shawn Andrews and Todd Herremans have started all 17 games, one of only two units to accomplish that feat this season.

They paved the way for Brian Westbrook to run for a career-best 1,217 yards and kept defenders off Donovan McNabb and Jeff Garcia, giving their quarterbacks time to throw for 4,309 yards and 31 touchdowns. The 28 sacks allowed this season was the team's lowest total since 1981.

Yet the offensive linemen rarely get credit for the Eagles' success except from coaches and other players.

"We're an overworked, underappreciated group," said Andrews, who became an All-Pro in just his third season. "But, we don't look for the personal glory. We just want to win."

A first-round pick in 2004, Andrews missed that season after breaking his leg in the opener. He played well last year, became arguably the most dominant right guard in the league this season and earned his first trip to the Pro Bowl.

Click link for full article

[Westbrook36]

The irrational overrating of Shawn Andrews continues.

[Fifty Gut]

finally Reid (and your first year playcaller) is giving them a chance to attack forward instead of always moving backwards in pass protection

[bubba9497]

1. The eagles are third best OL in the east, stats back it up

2. Shame Andrews is the third best RG in the east behind Thomas and Snee

3. This eagle homer is entitled to his opinion... no matter how wong he maybe

the eagle OL was awesome Sunday they allowed the Strahan-less Giants pummel the mobile Garcia, in the third quarter FOX should a stat where Garcia had been sacked twice, hurried six times, hit 11 times up to that point....that is terrible for an average OL much less the so called best in the NFL

[OWUeagleMD]

1. The eagles are third best OL in the east, stats back it up

2. Shame Andrews is the third best RG in the east behind Thomas and Snee

3. This eagle homer is entitled to his opinion... no matter how wong he maybe

the eagle OL was awesome Sunday they allowed the Strahan-less Giants pummel the mobile Garcia, in the third quarter FOX should a stat where Garcia had been sacked twice, hurried six times, hit 11 times up to that point....that is terrible for an average OL much less the so called best in the NFL

I'm not going to argue with you on this one anymore, we've each said our points ad nauseum for three weeks now. I will say that this may not be the most accurate time to call Westy a homer, seeing as the entire NFL media and viewer base seems to agree with him. You may still be right, that isn't my point. He isn't a homer though when his position coincides with essentially everyone else who cares about the NFL.

[MD2020]

I'm not going to argue with you on this one anymore, we've each said our points ad nauseum for three weeks now. I will say that this may not be the most accurate time to call Westy a homer, seeing as the entire NFL media and viewer base seems to agree with him. You may still be right, that isn't my point. He isn't a homer though when his position coincides with essentially everyone else who cares about the NFL.

Now, not everyone agrees with that. Did you know that Chris Snee's and Randy Thomas combined All-Pro votes are only 21 less than Andrews?

They're breathing down his neck!

[Big Weirdo]

bubba the way you rate everything parallels your feelings for every team. Every time you rate something it always seems to go like this:

1. Redskins

2. Giants

3. Eagles

4. Cowboys

When I see that this is what I see:

1. My favorite team

2. Team I hate the least in the NFCE

3. Team I really hate in the NFCE

4. My most hated team

Sorry that you have such a hard time with people within your own division.

[bubba9497]

bubba the way you rate everything parallels your feelings for every team. Every time you rate something it always seems to go like this:

1. Redskins

2. Giants

3. Eagles

4. Cowboys

When I see that this is what I see:

1. My favorite team

2. Team I hate the least in the NFCE

3. Team I really hate in the NFCE

4. My most hated team

Sorry that you have such a hard time with people within your own division.

:laugh: more spin but nothing of substance

Facts

Eagles gave up sacks 1 every 19 attempts with 2 mobile qbs

Giants 1 out of every 21 with a non mobile Eli, and lost their starting LT

Redskins 1 out of 25 pass attempts with an old Brunell, and an inexperienced Campbell

Sacks Allowed rank

Eagles #10 - 28 sacks

Giants #8 - 25

Redskins #3 - 19 (* 6 sacks in game 2, or 13 sacks in other 15 games or 1 in 34 attempts, total of 6 zero sack games)

Rushing

Eagles #11, 1984 yards

Giants #7, 2156 yards

Redskins #4, 2216 yards

YPC

Eagles 4.8 in 416 attemps

Giants 4.7 in 455 attempts

Redskins 4.5 in 490 attempts

* during the last 6 games no RB in the NFC had more yards or a better YPC avg than Betts our backup, whom also tied a team record 5 straight 100+ yard rushing games

we have already discussed the differences in the run games, fewer attempts equals higher YPC, eagles fewer short yardage runs, or inside runs again equals higher YPC

the eagles are 3rd in all catagories but 1 and that has been debunked above

yeah I base my opinions on homerism :jerk: whatever

[OWUeagleMD]

Bubba, you know as well as anyone that mobility has nothing to do with allowing sacks. McNabb has been plagued his entire career by the fact that he holds on to the ball too long and accepts sacks when there is no reason. Peyton Manning is sacked less than any QB I've seen over his career and has no mobility at all.

EDIT: I just noticed how you cleverly suggested that Brunell would have been a reason the Skins should have allowed more sacks. I guess we're ignoring the fact that Brunell threw the ball into the stands if someone came within 13 yards of him.

[Big Weirdo]

bubba loves stats. Haven't you ever heard they only tell half the story? Why didn't you address me when I linked you to football outsiders. You love KC Joyner and friends. Football Outsiders is in the same mold. Or are you only allowed to use them when they fit what you want to say?

You can hate Shawn Andrews all day. (I really like how you call him blubber boy though you haven't read the story about his friend of a long time died due to heart failure from being overweight which encouraged him to lose weight) But the fact is this: He is good. Very good. Better than you will ever give him credit for. You can make up things all day because you really don't have a stat to back up what you want to say about Shawn. The kid is good and deserves the credit he gets.

[bubba9497]

bubba loves stats. Haven't you ever heard they only tell half the story? Why didn't you address me when I linked you to football outsiders. You love KC Joyner and friends. Football Outsiders is in the same mold. Or are you only allowed to use them when they fit what you want to say?

You can hate Shawn Andrews all day. (I really like how you call him blubber boy though you haven't read the story about his friend of a long time died due to heart failure from being overweight which encouraged him to lose weight) But the fact is this: He is good. Very good. Better than you will ever give him credit for. You can make up things all day because you really don't have a stat to back up what you want to say about Shawn. The kid is good and deserves the credit he gets.

Football Outsiders are not in the same mold, they use stats subjectively to make pre conceived opinions, many times what they try to peddle doesn't even make sense, given credit for something that succeeds or fails more for other reasons than what they suggest,

KC Joyner bases his on simple facts, not subjective theories. How many blocks did a guy make or miss, how many blocks did the guy make on out side runs, inside runs.. etc

Andrews is good but no where near as good as you and others want to proclaim, sorry but that is how it is and the Philly OL though better than last season wasn't as good as either the Skins or the Giants... again spin it anyway you want but the numbers don't lie

Philly was better than the Skins in many areas, but not the OL, nor at the guard position

and save the lecture, so he lost weight because his friend died, good for him, he is still too heavy and slow compared to the other three guards in the East I rank above him

you know, you'll want to insist that I am wrong and just being a homer, but I provide facts and logic to my arguments, you provide spin, and accusations

maybe the ones who are only seeing what they want is you

OH WAIT only I'm a homer :laugh:

I have this same argument all the time when I point out an unpopular point about a player or team... and it isn't just with Non-Skin fans.. I had arguments in the past about Ladell Betts, Dockery, Samuels, Brunell, etc... when at the time people called me a homer because the popular belief was the players weren't any good over paid injury prone what ever, but now everyone is on their bandwagon

Same thing when I said the Eagle DL will not be that great in preseason, and Howard won't be the savior everyone thought. When I said Bunky wouldn't start, or be all that effective this year, That Reggie Brown wasn't going to get a thousand yards in the eagle system, that Stallworth has flashes but also stays injured, and makes mistakes, that the Dallas OL, and secondary were not going to improve this season and were liabilities, That Roy Williams was overrated, That TO dropped too many passes, That Romo sits to pee quick start will fade fast by the end of the season

Outside of my Redskin predictions the only thing I really missed on was Tiki Barber having another big season

but every time, despite the fact I posted stats, and logical reasons for my beliefs, all I heard was homer, take off the glasses, hater... same as now. For the record I never base my opinions on dislike of a player or team, regardless of what you want to believe.... (a new quote for thespaniard to take out of context to put in his sig :laugh: )

nothing of any real substance to debunk my opinions

[OWUeagleMD]

I didn't realize how often you are right. All the negative things you said about the Eagles came true, and I didn't even realize it. With all of your mini-predictions coming true, one would think your master opinion would be right as well. But that didn't happen. I wonder if that has something to do with the half-truths you've ignored while patting yourself on the back.

Listen, I'm not calling you a homer at any point in this thread. But, you ARE calling us homers. I'd just like to point out the absurdity of calling someone a homer when their opinion coincides with the overwhelming majority. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you have to admit, so far, you're in a minority of one.

[Big Weirdo]

Well damn bubba you're a regular ****ing Nastradamus. While you're tooting your own horn you root for the last place team in the NFC East, Shawn Andrews is still in the Pro Bowl and you will still be called a "homer" (though no one even called you that in this thread).

[bubba9497]

you will still be called a "homer" (though no one even called you that in this thread).

When I see that this is what I see:

1. My favorite team

2. Team I hate the least in the NFCE

3. Team I really hate in the NFCE

4. My most hated team

yeah, no one posted the word homer.....

Well damn bubba you're a regular ****ing Nastradamus. While you're tooting your own horn you root for the last place team in the NFC East, Shawn Andrews is still in the Pro Bowl.

and the eagles haven't won a Super Bowl, so what does that have to do with the price of eggs in China?

tell you what come back to me when you have something tangible to disprove me

[Big Weirdo]

OK. Well you continue to post what you post and let people call you a homer. There is a reason people call you that. It's a stereotype you have. And they're called stereotypes for a reason. It's a specialty to you have.

Now that I look back at my list, I also agree that you are a homer. And no one here can call me a homer. I call for Reid's head all the time. So you're right, you're not the only homer, but you are one.

Hey, BTW, where is tr1? I haven't seen him lately. Miss his articles.

[bubba9497]

I didn't realize how often you are right. All the negative things you said about the Eagles came true, and I didn't even realize it. With all of your mini-predictions coming true, one would think your master opinion would be right as well. But that didn't happen. I wonder if that has something to do with the half-truths you've ignored while patting yourself on the back.

I didn't ignore anything, not patting myself on the back just pointing out it's always te same song and dance when I post something that at the time goes against popular belief, or burst someones bubble

Listen, I'm not calling you a homer at any point in this thread. But, you ARE calling us homers. I'd just like to point out the absurdity of calling someone a homer when their opinion coincides with the overwhelming majority. I'm not saying you're wrong, but you have to admit, so far, you're in a minority of one.

called no, implied..... well :laugh:

I ddn't call you a homer either... I did suggest your reluctance (and Who dels) to my viewpoint maybe shaded by your team loyalty especially when you don't post anything other than your opinion to refute my opinion and eviedence I provided.

I usualy am in the minority to begin with, that was my point when I patted myself on the back as you called it

[DWinzit]

I didn't realize how often you are right.

I agree with you OWUE, Bubba is often correct!!!

[OWUeagleMD]

:laugh: more spin but nothing of substance

Facts

Eagles gave up sacks 1 every 19 attempts with 2 mobile qbs

Giants 1 out of every 21 with a non mobile Eli, and lost their starting LT

Redskins 1 out of 25 pass attempts with an old Brunell, and an inexperienced Campbell

As I stated before, the weakest part of McNabb's game is his penchant for giving up sacks. Eli Manning has been criticized all year for throwing the ball early and turning his body to avoid hits. Mark Brunell threw the ball away this season more than any QB I've ever seen.

Something to consider: if the Eagles are known to set up the run with the pass (as you often point out in other situations, when it suits your current argument) wouldn't it stand to reason that teams address stopping our offense accordingly? Defensive ends have less responsiblity on outside contain and are more apt to rush the passer with abandon. Defensive tackles too are not as restrained by the threat of the run. Once again, these are all things you would point out if we were arguing about the Eagles willingness to run the game.

Sacks Allowed rank

Eagles #10 - 28 sacks

Giants #8 - 25

Redskins #3 - 19 (* 6 sacks in game 2, or 13 sacks in other 15 games or 1 in 34 attempts, total of 6 zero sack games)

Clearly a waste of time, since we all know the Eagles pass the ball entirely too much, of course they will allow more sacks than others.

Rushing

Eagles #11, 1984 yards

Giants #7, 2156 yards

Redskins #4, 2216 yards

Again, clearly a waste of time to mention, since we all know the Eagles rush less than anyone.

YPC

Eagles 4.8 in 416 attemps

Giants 4.7 in 455 attempts

Redskins 4.5 in 490 attempts

* during the last 6 games no RB in the NFC had more yards or a better YPC avg than Betts our backup, whom also tied a team record 5 straight 100+ yard rushing games

we have already discussed the differences in the run games, fewer attempts equals higher YPC, eagles fewer short yardage runs, or inside runs again equals higher YPC

Where is the statistic that alludes to the difference a commitment to the running game makes in an offensive line's ability to run block? Similarly to a defensive line's advantage in mentality when a team relies heavily on the pass, an offensive line gains a distinct advantage when a team relies heavily on the rush. Clearly someone who understands everything in the world about O-Line play would include such a reality in their argument.

[OWUeagleMD]

I didn't ignore anything, not patting myself on the back just pointing out it's always te same song and dance when I post something that at the time goes against popular belief, or burst someones bubble

called no, implied..... well :laugh:

I ddn't call you a homer either... I did suggest your reluctance (and Who dels) to my viewpoint maybe shaded by your team loyalty especially when you don't post anything other than your opinion to refute my opinion and eviedence I provided.

I usualy am in the minority to begin with, that was my point when I patted myself on the back as you called it

I didn't even come close to implying that you were a homer. I stated clearly that I thought you were wrong, but I also stated clearly that I wasn't calling you a homer.

I haven't called anyone a homer on this board since you began posting on the changes that needed to be made around here. I think I showed clear respect for your right to an opinion throughout this thread, though I can't say that respect was neccesarily returned.

[bubba9497]

OK. Well you continue to post what you post and let people call you a homer. There is a reason people call you that. It's a stereotype you have. And they're called stereotypes for a reason. It's a specialty to you have.

Now that I look back at my list, I also agree that you are a homer. And no one here can call me a homer. I call for Reid's head all the time. So you're right, you're not the only homer, but you are one.

Hey, BTW, where is tr1? I haven't seen him lately. Miss his articles.

:yawnee: umm yeah

it the same old story, if enoygh people scream it, people start believing it, dispite the facts

I'm called Homer because I post things people don't want to believe, but can't logically disprove, so the resort to the old, you're a homer argument... jus as you did above, in a different varation.

you know what, I give other teams credit when earned, I blame Redskins when they fail, I even admit when I am wrong...

but I am a homer when I stand up and backup (keyword there) my beliefs when they not the popular thing.

no way your opinion is shaded because Andrews plays for the eagles... :thumbsup:

[OWUeagleMD]

:yawnee: umm yeah

it the same old story, if enoygh people scream it, people start believing it, dispite the facts

I'm called Homer because I post things people don't want to believe, but can't logically disprove, so the resort to the old, you're a homer argument... jus as you did above, in a different varation.

you know what, I give other teams credit when earned, I blame Redskins when they fail, I even admit when I am wrong...

but I am a homer when I stand up and backup (keyword there) my beliefs when they not the popular thing.

no way your opinion is shaded because Andrews plays for the eagles... :thumbsup:

I can't imagine trying harder to turn this into an argument that does not involve the word homer. Somehow, we keep making our way back to it though.

[Big Weirdo]

You're so very humble, bubba. You sat there and tooted your own horn for being right about certain things. That is pathetic, imo.

You sit here and say Shawn isn't good at all. Call him names even though you're in your 40s and continue to fail and recognize he has had a good year whether you LIKE IT or NOT. You claim to know good O-line play but yet no one even knows what credentials you have in this area. Were you an O-line coach or something?

[bubba9497]

I didn't even come close to implying that you were a homer. I stated clearly that I thought you were wrong, but I also stated clearly that I wasn't calling you a homer.

I haven't called anyone a homer on this board since you began posting on the changes that needed to be made around here. I think I showed clear respect for your right to an opinion throughout this thread, though I can't say that respect was neccesarily returned.

excuse me I lumped you in with number5 (who did his tr1 impression) and who del

the fact that I am providing stats and facts to back up my opionion is proof I respect your opinion, or I wouldn't bother gathering the info to debate, I would just laugh you off

but in return no one has posted anything other than their opinion or they watched the game and... stuff... nothing else to refute my opinon

so if you feel insulted, I apologize, no insult was intended to you

[DWinzit]

excuse me I lumped you in with number5 (who did his tr1 impression)

Tr1 deserves better than this bubba!

[bubba9497]

You're so very humble, bubba. You sat there and tooted your own horn for being right about certain things. That is pathetic, imo.

yeah I know, some how I accidentally pointed out that I was wrong about the Skins, and Tiki Barber...

again if you read what I wrote, it wasn't tooting, or patting, just pointing out in those arguments, I was told the exact same thing... I hate, I am homer, I rank out dislikes or likes, I am wrong for every reason but football related... even though I backed my opinions in facts, and stats relevant to the argument... no one countered with info or stats to disprove me... but I am the homer... see the point

I doubt it

You sit here and say Shawn isn't good at all. Call him names even though you're in your 40s and continue to fail and recognize he has had a good year whether you LIKE IT or NOT. You claim to know good O-line play but yet no one even knows what credentials you have in this area. Were you an O-line coach or something?

Where did I say he was no good? got a link?

I said he was 4th Best in the NFC East at Guard, and didn't deserve the probowl... and that is based on what I see and research, has nothing to do with like or dislike

I call a lot people stupid names, and always will so? Does that change the facts? it's a freaking football message board not a court of law, and if you can't joke and tease in your 40's then might as well be getting ready for the rocking chair.

You know, you don't know what my credentials are, that is why I try to always provide stats, facts, logic, something tangible to back my opinion, not just expect others to believe me because "I said so"

Well you have done a great job, of turning this away from the topic, and trying to discredit me... as if that somehow changes the stats I posted :applause: