Moss Boss Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 You know, we can go on and on cherry picking whatever stats we want to. We can do the same thing with just about every other quarterback in the league. Here are some of Brunell's splits: behind by 1-7 points - 42 of 77, 545, 2 TDs, 2 INTs, 75 rating ahead by 1-7 points - 19 of 26, 192 yards, 2 TDs, 119.4 Tied - 17 of 27, 212 yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT, 96.5 rating Basically, this is close to his overall rating now. Garbage Time 15+ points - 28 of 41, 275 yards, 1 TD That is also pretty close to his production now, but his rating his higher due to no INTs. As for our third down production, yeah its a problem, but again we rank 16th in terms of drive success rate and 16th in yards per drive. On the other hand, our defense is ranked 28th in average yards per drive, 24th in drive success rate, and 31st in forced TO's per drive. I'm curious, don't people think our offense would put up more points with better field position (due to forcing more TO's) and more possessions (having the defense get key stops)? Now, to compare Brunell to other QBs around the league: Tom Brady Behind by 1-7 points - 78.5 rating Ahead by 1-7 points - 89.9 rating Garbage Time - 18 of 26, 168 yards, 1 TD Passes Thrown 41+ - 0 for 4 Passes Thrown 31-40 - 2 of 9, 70 yards, 1 TD Passes Thrown 21-30 yards - 7 of 16, 83 rating Hmm...what happens when you take away Brady's garbage stats. Why isn't he more accurate throwing down field? Byron Leftwich Passes Thrown 21-30 - 2 for 11, 1 INT Passes Thrown 31-40 - 0 for 2, 1 INT Passes Thrown 41+ - 0 for 2 Passes Thrown Behind Line of Scrimmage - 28 of 44, 63% Garbage Time - 11 of 23, 2 TDs Behind 1-7 - 49.3 rating But wait...he has a strong arm so he must be good right? And why don't they go deep more often? Matt Hasselbeck Passes Thrown 41+ - 1 for 1, 42 yards, TD 31-40 - 2 for 10, 1 TD, INT 21-30 - 3 for 8 Behind Line and 1-10 yards - 2 TDs, 4 INTs Garbage Time - 28 of 44, 3 TDs, 2 INTs Why aren't they throwing deep? Also of note is that the reason many of these players have high ratings for deep balls is because they have scored TDs on them. Not sure if you can pin that one on Brunell. Jake Delhomme 41+ - 1 of 3, 1 TD 31-40 - 1 of 6, 1 TD 21-30 - 3 of 16, 1 TD, 1 INT We can ponder this one over as well. Carson Palmer 41+ - 1 for 1 - 51 yards 31-40 - 2 for 5, 1 TD 21 - 30 - 4 for 11, 1 TD 11-20 - 15 for 31, 1 TD, 2 INT Why don't they go deep more often? Eli Manning Behind 15-21 - 15 of 20, 172 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT Behind 22+ - 12 of 16, 141 yards, 2 TDs What do you get when you take out his garbage time stats? And do you guys even want me to get into the Plummers, McNairs, Bledsoes, Roethlisbergers, and Culpeppers???? You take out garbage times stats of any QB, you will see their rating drop. To the contrary, Brunell actually does at least decent in games of tied - 7 point margins. Also, it seems to me that teams don't go as deep as people think they do. It also seems that the geniuses who can break an NFL record and have a 90 QB rating by throwing just dump offs and screens would actually have a much tougher time doing so because it seems most QBs have not been nearly as efficient as Brunell in doing so, and most have at least 1 INT on this short routes. And yes, spare me, I know we get a ton of yards after the catch, but of course the reason for that is YPC is a specialty of our receivers. Why blame Brunell for that? As others have said: Brunell is what he is, which is an old average (maybe a slightly above average) QB. Maybe, just maybe, if the defense can get off the damn field or at least force a TO that will give the offense more possessions and better field position, which would in all liklihood lead to more points. I am now in favor of starting Campbell because it is time to see what he has got, not because of Brunell's play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 If Brunell could convert 3rd downs the defense wouldn't get stuck on the field the whole game. See anyone can play that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Boss Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 If Brunell could convert 3rd downs the defense wouldn't get stuck on the field the whole game.See anyone can play that game. Not really since I pointed out that the offense is 16th in yards per drive and 16th in drive success rate. Points per drive - 15th TDs per drive - 16th I can't help but think if the defense produced just some TOs, we would probably be around 11th in drive efficiency. Also, you need to make sure you look at the other QBs I point out, and the numbers they show. Brunell isn't Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb, but he is better than more than half the starters in the this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raub Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Also, you need to make sure you look at the other QBs I point out, and the numbers they show. Brunell isn't Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb, but he is better than more than half the starters in the this league. I don't need to look at numbers, I look at the play. Brunell is not better than half the starters in the league, I don't care how many stats you dig up that hide his mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TD Riggo Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 That post made my head hurt about a quarter through it! I'm gonna go slip into a coma now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt'n Obvious Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Watching the games > Stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Boss Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 Wow, I show a couple points that Brunell bashers love to use: 1. We don't go deep enough and are inefficient at doing so Yet, when you look at the numbers of other QBs, there isn't much difference if any at all in the accuracy they show on the deep ball or the amount of times they actually go deep. But I guess that doesn't matter. 2. Brunell gets all his numbers during garbage time Yet again, his numbers show in CLOSE games that his production is basically equal to that of his overall numbers. And if you look at other QBs, many of their numbers come in garbage time as well. But I guess that doesn't matter 3. That the defense isn't our biggest problem Yet, we are 28th in average yards per drive given up and 30th TOs forced per drive, while we are average in all aspects of drive efficiency. If our defense forced a few more TO's, our offense would start with better field position, and therefore score more points. But again, I guess that doesn't matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt'n Obvious Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Im not a basher, I support whoever is at QB. Im just tired of seeing checkdowns and on 3 and 8 throwing it two yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcowboys#1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Ya'll need to develop Campbell NOW! Brunell aint gettin any better and sure as hell isnt leading yall to a SB and everyone knows that. Why not see what the kid's got so yall can determine if he is your qb of the future or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dustinwhylee Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 The problem with comparing stats can be summed up in the Colts game. Much (maybe close to half) of Brunell's total stats in that game came from the last 10 minutes of the fourth quarter. While Peyton, on the other hand, didn't need to throw and just kinda sat back and let Addai and Rhodes obtain some yards via the ground. Last year, in the first meeting against the Cowboys, Brunell did horrible the except for like 4 brilliant minutes. Those 4 minutes saved his "QB Rating". However, anyone that watched the game knows the stats are misleading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydshobob Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 You keep saying "why don't they go deep more often?". Remember, 10-15 yards is DEEP for Brunell! Don't think we want 40-50 yard passes all the time. All we want is for him to pass it past the 1st down marker once or twice a game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Happy Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I don't need to look at numbers, I look at the play. Brunell is not better than half the starters in the league, I don't care how many stats you dig up that hide his mediocrity. I suppose you also look at the play of all the other QBs in all their games. You must be a busy man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stretch Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 long ass post snipped You have too much time on your hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peckerwood Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Ya'll need to develop Campbell NOW!Brunell aint gettin any better and sure as hell isnt leading yall to a SB and everyone knows that. Why not see what the kid's got so yall can determine if he is your qb of the future or not? damn, you type like a redneck too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21Knock_U_Out Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Not really since I pointed out that the offense is 16th in yards per drive and 16th in drive success rate.Points per drive - 15th TDs per drive - 16th I can't help but think if the defense produced just some TOs, we would probably be around 11th in drive efficiency. Also, you need to make sure you look at the other QBs I point out, and the numbers they show. Brunell isn't Peyton Manning or Donovan McNabb, but he is better than more than half the starters in the this league. I guess being Mid grade is where we are supposed to be?With all the weapons we should be TOP 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wpenn1 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Wow, I show a couple points that Brunell bashers love to use:1. We don't go deep enough and are inefficient at doing so Yet, when you look at the numbers of other QBs, there isn't much difference if any at all in the accuracy they show on the deep ball or the amount of times they actually go deep. But I guess that doesn't matter. 2. Brunell gets all his numbers during garbage time Yet again, his numbers show in CLOSE games that his production is basically equal to that of his overall numbers. And if you look at other QBs, many of their numbers come in garbage time as well. But I guess that doesn't matter 3. That the defense isn't our biggest problem Yet, we are 28th in average yards per drive given up and 30th TOs forced per drive, while we are average in all aspects of drive efficiency. If our defense forced a few more TO's, our offense would start with better field position, and therefore score more points. But again, I guess that doesn't matter does your great stats show pass interference calls on long balls, how bout rushing yards when the defense cant stack the box because of the threat of a long pass. As was said before we can play these stats game all day. Watch the game fella and you wouldnt need stats, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parlett316 Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 If Brunell would step up into the pocket we would do better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Boss Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 You have too much time on your hands. I have 22 posts and I joined in 2005. But thanks for the response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Boss Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 does your great stats show pass interference calls on long balls, how bout rushing yards when the defense cant stack the box because of the threat of a long pass. As was said before we can play these stats game all day. Watch the game fella and you wouldnt need stats, I've watched every game, and I basically see an average and inconsistent offense. With more possessions and better field position, we would be putting more points on the board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moss Boss Posted October 25, 2006 Author Share Posted October 25, 2006 I guess being Mid grade is where we are supposed to be?With all the weapons we should be TOP 4 I guess, but it isn't like the Bengals or Panthers don't have weapons and they are right where we are. And like I said before, if we get more possessions and have the defense force just some TOs, we'll have more points. You keep saying "why don't they go deep more often?". Remember, 10-15 yards is DEEP for Brunell! Don't think we want 40-50 yard passes all the time. All we want is for him to pass it past the 1st down marker once or twice a game. I'm saying that in reference to the other QBs, who's numbers I posted. All I showed is that people who say that we don't throw the ball downfield enough...well, it looks like that is the case for many teams. Their downfield numbers don't look much different than Brunell's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hanster Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Wow, I show a couple points that Brunell bashers love to use:1. We don't go deep enough and are inefficient at doing so Yet, when you look at the numbers of other QBs, there isn't much difference if any at all in the accuracy they show on the deep ball or the amount of times they actually go deep. But I guess that doesn't matter. 2. Brunell gets all his numbers during garbage time Yet again, his numbers show in CLOSE games that his production is basically equal to that of his overall numbers. And if you look at other QBs, many of their numbers come in garbage time as well. But I guess that doesn't matter 3. That the defense isn't our biggest problem Yet, we are 28th in average yards per drive given up and 30th TOs forced per drive, while we are average in all aspects of drive efficiency. If our defense forced a few more TO's, our offense would start with better field position, and therefore score more points. But again, I guess that doesn't matter People don't understand the game. I think that they drink too much. Mark Brunell is not the problem. Our defense sucks, we don't play team football!!, and the 700 page playbook needs to be subtracted by 600. We need run the ball strait at teams not a pitch out every run and these defenses we play already know the play before we run it. OVERCOACHING!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sydshobob Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 I'm saying that in reference to the other QBs, who's numbers I posted. All I showed is that people who say that we don't throw the ball downfield enough...well, it looks like that is the case for many teams. Their downfield numbers don't look much different than Brunell's. You don't show Brunell's numbers for distance (do you?) . It looks like those other QB's don't throw dozens of bombs, but I'd bet 60% of MB's passes are shorter than 10 yards. Maybe more. Again, I don't necessarily want him to throw 50 yards 10 times a game, 10-20 would be a BIG improvement! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trio Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 go look at other stats.... in the texans game (the record setting game) brunell threw ONE pass that was completed that traveled 15 yards or more through the air...of his close to 280 yards passing, 230 of them were yards after the catch... many of his Jax throws were the same way... brunell's numbers are what they are because we have players at the other skilled positions (Moss, Cooley, Portis, Randle El, etc) that can flat out play and flat out fly...even the game winner against jacksonville was thrown into double coverage, and Moss made an incredible individual play.... i wonder what tom brady would so with Santana Moss, ARE, Lloyd, Portis, and Cooley..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 Great post and great breakdown. :applause: I don't need to look at numbers, I look at the play. Brunell is not better than half the starters in the league, I don't care how many stats you dig up that hide his mediocrity. Sure, why let facts get in the way? I bet you'd insert Bledsoe into the lineup over him if you could, right? Being a QB isn't all about the sex appeal that Peyton Manning or McNabb are bringing to the position with their big plays. It's equally about avoiding costly mistakes. That very thing is why Bledsoe is out of a job right now and likely finished as a NFL QB even though, when he's at his best, he tends to look better than Brunell does delivering the ball. Brunell does well something that doesn't get him enough credit, and that's avoiding critical mistakes. Our score differential would be the worst in the league given our defensive weakness if he turned the ball over more than he does. Don't kid yourself, we have WAAAAAAAAAY bigger problems to address than Brunell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redman Posted October 25, 2006 Share Posted October 25, 2006 go look at other stats....in the texans game (the record setting game) brunell threw ONE pass that was completed that traveled 15 yards or more through the air...of his close to 280 yards passing, 230 of them were yards after the catch... many of his Jax throws were the same way... brunell's numbers are what they are because we have players at the other skilled positions (Moss, Cooley, Portis, Randle El, etc) that can flat out play and flat out fly...even the game winner against jacksonville was thrown into double coverage, and Moss made an incredible individual play.... i wonder what tom brady would so with Santana Moss, ARE, Lloyd, Portis, and Cooley..... I see, so what you're saying is that even though our guys can make big plays with the ball without risking throws over longer distances that can lead to INT"s, we should throw deep anyway? It's called playing to your strengths, and while what we're doing is certainly not perfect, it's not off base either. Get off the sauce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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