Predicto Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I guess they are still just getting railroaded, eh Sarge? I seem to recall you being pissed that this investigation was even being undertaken. FORT CAMPBELL, Kentucky (CNN) -- Four U.S. soldiers accused of raping and killing a 14-year-old girl and slaying her sister and their parents will face courts-martial on murder charges, military officials say. The commander of the 101st Airborne Division has referred murder charges against the soldiers for the alleged crimes that occurred in Mahmoudiya, south of Baghdad, in March. Two of the soldiers could face the death penalty if convicted. According to a written statement, Maj. Gen. Thomas Turner made the decision after reviewing a report of the investigation and receiving recommendations from the investigating officer, the appointing authority who directed the investigation and his staff judge advocate. One of the soldiers, 23-year-old Army Spec. James P. Barker, told an Army criminal investigator that after the killings he poured kerosene on the girl's bullet-ridden body, according to testimony in August at a military hearing. The girl's father, mother and five-year-old sister were also killed, according to military officials. Barker said in an interview that he held the girl down while she was raped by another soldier, Sgt. Paul Cortez, 23, according to Special Agent Benjamin Bierce of the Army's Criminal Investigation Division. Barker said he then attempted to rape the girl himself, before she was shot to death by former Pfc. Steven D. Green, Bierce said. But, Barker added, he was not sure if he penetrated the girl, because he was having trouble getting an erection. Bierce also testified that Barker admitted pouring kerosene from a lamp onto the girl's body, although it was unclear from the testimony who set the girl on fire. Bierce's testimony came during the second day of a preliminary hearing in Baghdad for Barker, Cortez, and two other soldiers, Pfc. Jesse V. Spielman, 21, and Pfc. Bryan L. Howard, 19, who are also charged in connection with the killings in Mahmoudiya. The hearing was held to determine whether there was enough evidence to proceed to courts-martial. A planned brutal attack According to statements given at an August military hearing, the soldiers were drinking whiskey, playing cards and hitting golf balls when Green brought up the idea of going to a house near the checkpoint where they were stationed, to rape the girl. Barker described Green as very persistent, Bierce testified. The statements said the five soldiers -- Green, Cortez, Barker, Spielman and Howard -- then changed into dark clothing and covered their faces, before going to the house. According to Barker, Howard was the lookout and was given a radio to use if anyone approached, Bierce said. The four remaining soldiers then entered the home, at which point the statements from Barker and Cortez about what happened diverge, according to testimony. Barker told investigators that Cortez pushed the 14-year-old girl to the floor and made "thrusting motions" as Barker held down her hands; then they switched positions, Bierce said. Sometime during the assault, Barker said he heard gunshots come from the bedroom, where the girl's parents and sister had been taken, and an agitated Green emerged and said he had killed them, Bierce said. According to Barker, Green then put down the AK-47 he had been carrying and raped the girl, while Cortez held her down, and then picked up the gun and shot her several times, Bierce said. Green then went into the kitchen and, when he returned, said he had opened the propane tank and they needed to get out of the house because it was about to explode, Bierce said. However, in his statement to U.S. Army investigators, Cortez denied raping the girl, although he admitted holding her down while Barker raped her, Special Agent Gary Griesmyer testified. Under questioning, Griesmyer testified there was no evidence Spielman raped or murdered anyone in the house. Special Agent Michael Hood also said Spielman passed a polygraph test in which he denied shooting or raping anyone. However, in his statement to investigators, Barker put Spielman at the scene and said Spielman grabbed the five-year-old girl outside the house and took her inside, Bierce said. After the alleged attack, Barker also said the soldiers gave Spielman their clothes to burn and that he threw the AK-47 in a canal, Bierce said. A sixth soldier, Sgt. Anthony W. Yribe, has been charged with failing to report the alleged rape and killings, but was not alleged to have been a participant. Also testifying at the August hearing was a soldier in the same platoon as the accused men, Pfc. Justin Watt, who said he began trying to find out what happened at Mahmoudiya after Yribe confided to him that Green had told Yribe about the rape and killings. "I wanted to see if I could confirm my suspicions that there were more people involved," Watt said. "I believed there were American forces involved." Watt said when he asked Howard about what happened, Howard revealed the plan to rape the girl and that his role was to be the lookout. "(Howard) let me know that he ended up seeing a Humvee and calling them back frantically," Watt testified. Howard also told him that when the other soldiers returned from the house, "Their clothes were covered in blood," Watt said. After piecing together the details about what happened, Watt said he reported his suspicions to a combat stress team. "If you have the power to make something right, you should do it," Watt said. "Investigation is not my job. But if something went down, something terrible like that, then it's my obligation to come forward." However, Watt also described the conditions at Mahmoudiya as a "suck-fest," testifying that the soldiers were living in the basement of a "dilapidated, abandoned water treatment facility," and had gone 30 days without a shower. http://www.cnn.com/2006/LAW/10/18/soldiers.court/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Before anyone posts a response - I do NOT think that this reflects on the typical US soldier, nor is it even an statement on whether we should be in Iraq. It's just a sad piece of news. and I needed to get another dig in at Sarge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneBoost Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 People make mistakes, being over in a conflict zone can really mess you up, I still support the military 100%, and anyone who doesnt can go blow a goat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Force Cane Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 but you "support the troops" right? :puke: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 but you "support the troops" right?:puke: Pretty much all of them except maybe one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 It is a sad piece of news. I really have very little mercy for these guys. True war criminals in my opinion. I lived in Mahmoudiyah for about 75% of my tour in Iraq and spent quite a bit of time in Yusufiyah(best I can tell this incident happened on the route between the two towns). It really pisses me off that the same people I spent so much time trying to earn the trust of were subjected to such treatment at the hands of my comrades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 but you "support the troops" right?:puke: I don't support these troops. Not one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Before anyone posts a response - I do NOT think that this reflects on the typical US soldier, nor is it even an statement on whether we should be in Iraq. Of course not. But, as with most groups, there's always gonna be a couple bad apples. Same stuff happened in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 I don't support these troops. Not one bit. Well, you are allowed to hold that view, since you are military. I, on the other hand, am a commie lib terrorist sympathizer, so I can have no opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneBoost Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 I don't support these troops. Not one bit. They made a mistake, simply like you accidently running over a squirrel. I support what they did, not the raping and murder part, but for putting there life on the line for all of us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 Of course not. But, as with most groups, there's always gonna be a couple bad apples.Same stuff happened in the Civil War, WWI, WWII, ect. Agreed. I hardly ever start threads on here. After seeing the first couple of responses, I wish someone else had posted this story instead of me. I do not hate our troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 They made a mistake, simply like you accidently running over a squirrel. I support what they did, not the raping and murder part, but for putting there life on the line for all of us. I'm guessing you might want to clarify this post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 They made a mistake, simply like you accidently running over a squirrel. I support what they did, not the raping and murder part, but for putting there life on the line for all of us. Ummm . . . raping and murdering is not a "mistake" Oh, and I choose to withhold judgement until after the trial. If they are guilty, throw the book at them. If not, let them go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 They made a mistake, simply like you accidently running over a squirrel. I support what they did, not the raping and murder part, but for putting there life on the line for all of us. What they also did was do enough damage to completely cancel out all the times I dodged IED's and RPG's riding down Route Jackson and Sue in order to gain the support of these people. To convince them that you are better with us than them. That we are the good guys. They didn't accidentally shoot the wrong people, that happens and is part of war. They raped and burned a kid and her family. They didn't accidentally run over a squirrel. Go through my posts. You will see that I support the military 100%, I believe in what we are doing in Iraq. And I hope these guys get the book thrown at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins2redskins Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Oh don't worry about it Predicto. I get where your coming from,I support the troops as well. I don't support the ones that do things like these did,regardless of it being in war. We're entitled to our opinion,don't regret starting the thread. I have alot of family members who have been in the military,my nephew still is,I'm sure he may end up in Iraq or who knows where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProBowler Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Well this is just another trickle down effect for all the pro war people out there. Let's get the youngest people we have who don't know anything yet and strip them of all their emotions so they can go fight a war. Let's add another 4 to the death toll for americans and a 14 yr old girl and her family to the death toll for the Iraqi side. Just wonderful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Well this is just another trickle down effect for all the pro war people out there. Let's get the youngest people we have who don't know anything yet and strip them of all their emotions so they can go fight a war. Let's add another 4 to the death toll for americans and a 14 yr old girl and her family to the death toll for the Iraqi side. Just wonderful! ummm . . . who else would you send to war? this isnt the first time something like this has happened before . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProBowler Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 ummm . . . who else would you send to war? this isnt the first time something like this has happened before . . . Well my answer is obvious! Send some people who are older and have a mind of their own and are capeable of making a decesion on their own without being brainwashed. Let me ask you a question. Why do you think there is a age limitation before you can be accepted into the military? It use to be 25 I don't know what it is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Well my answer is obvious! Send some people who are older and have a mind of their own and are capeable of making a decesion on their own without being brainwashed.Let me ask you a question. Why do you think there is a age limitation before you can be accepted into the military? It use to be 25 I don't know what it is now. Do a little research before you make ridiculous claims. And then clean up your point so it makes sense. "An age limitation before you can be accepted into the military"...You can be accepted at 17 with a parent or guardian signature. You can get at I believe 42 all on your own. edit: Looks like you are eligible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProBowler Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Do a little research before you make ridiculous claims. And then clean up your point so it makes sense. "An age limitation before you can be accepted into the military"...You can be accepted at 17 with a parent or guardian signature. You can get at I believe 42 all on your own. edit: Looks like you are eligible Buddy, I know what the hell I'm talking about.I went to a recruiters office when I was 18 and I'm almost positive you were not elgible after the age of 25 back then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Buddy, I know what the hell I'm talking about.I went to a recruiters office when I was 18 and I'm almost positive you were not elgible after the age of 25 back then. You are 100% wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slateman Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Well my answer is obvious! Send some people who are older and have a mind of their own and are capeable of making a decesion on their own without being brainwashed.Let me ask you a question. Why do you think there is a age limitation before you can be accepted into the military? It use to be 25 I don't know what it is now. Its like 35 now . . . You send young men, because young men are the most fit and usually still single. They are also much easier to train and indoctrinate at 18, 19, 20, then they are at 28, 29, and 30 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProBowler Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 You are 100% wrong. No I'm not! It sure as hell wasn't no 42 I'm damn sure of that! It was in your 20's like 25 or 27. You provide me a link of where you can get in now at 42 and how long this has been in effect. I will bet the only reason you can get in at 42 now is because they are short on people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redskins Diehard Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Its like 35 now . . .You send young men, because young men are the most fit and usually still single. They are also much easier to train and indoctrinate at 18, 19, 20, then they are at 28, 29, and 30 Its 42 now, for the Army. 27 I believe for the Air Force and Marines, 35 for the Navy. You also bring people in at 18 because then the 30 year olds have 12 years of experience and the guys at 20 years of service are still capable of performing. But this really has little to do with this case. It is a sick dude whether he is 18, 28, or 38 that rapes, murders, and burns a family. There should be leadership out there with them...and leaders do not let stuff like this happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskins2redskins Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I tried to join the AF when I was 18,I'm 38 now. I passed everything except my vision kept me out. I think the cut off age back then was in the 30's if I'm not wrong. EDIT: I could be wrong now don't jump me:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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