Gary Horton Chat 9/6

[wsniper1]

Mike (Long Island): Is Clinton Portis going to play next monday, and how serious is his shoulder injury?

Gary Horton: (12:34 PM ET ) I've heard reports on both sides of the fence, regarding Monday night. He will play and his shoulder won't be ready. I will say this, I think that's an injury that should cause considerable concern for Redskins fans. Even if he's ready in Week 1 or 2, a shoulder injury could bother him the entire season and as many hits as he will take, it just seems unlikely that he can get through 16 games. I see this as a potential problem the entire season.

Eric Harrison (Philly): Is Donte Stallworth really the answer to the Eagles problems at the Wide out position?

Gary Horton: (12:27 PM ET ) He's an upgrade, but he's not the answer. In my mind, you now have Stallworth and Reggie Brown. Guys that are complementary receivers but not true No. 1 guys. This will be a receiving corp that gets production by committee. In all honesty, they've had success with that in the past. They will share catches and Stallworth will actually help Reggie Brown by not allowing defenses to double team him. But I don't think any of their receivers are difference makers on their own.

l-dog(indy, IN): how good can manning(eli) be this year? do you think he can improve his completion percentage? and does the giants "D" gell together well enough to be dominant? Can lavar and carlos stay healthy?

Gary Horton: (12:33 PM ET ) I think they're definitely a contender, but their success revolves around Manning's production. There are no more excuses for Eli and he can not make the bad decisions that he did a year ago and he can not have lapses of bad mechanics. He's a smart guy who prepares well and he has a variety of big targets in the passing game and a solid running game. This team should be great in the red zone, because of those big targets. They were not a year ago. I think the big thing Eli has to do this year is to be content to dump the ball off or throw the ball away if the play's not there. That requires patience and he needs to have it. Defensively, they have a great front seven with a potential pass rush of Strahan and Arrington coming off the same side. How do you block that? I love the fact that they revamped their entire secondary, because they didn't like their matchup capabilities a year ago. But that unit may take a little time to gel. If Manning manages the game well, this is a team that can go deep into the playoffs, even in a tough division.

Pete: Philly PA: The Eagles have the more talent and depth on the offensive and defensive lines in the NFC. Why doesn't anyone think this team can win the east?

Gary Horton: (12:15 PM ET ) Well, your first pint is well taken. If you know Andy Reid, even though this is a pass happy offense, he believes you buiild a football team in the trenches. The Eagles showed it this year in the draft. I love their offensive and defensive lines. I Think their defensive line will revitalize that struggled last year with a marginal pass rush up front. The reason that I think they will still struggle is that I don't see a passing attack that really stretches the field or gives you game changing plays. It's hard to ask your offense to put together 10-12 play drives with short passes. The other thing that concerns me is as good as Westbrook is, can he get through a 16-game season healthy? How does this offense sit on a lead and run out the clock? I don't know if they're physical enough to get that done in a division that's dramatically improved.

Gary Horton: (1:00 PM ET ) As a promo for myself, tune in next Monday at 5 p.m., when we do a half hour chat just about the Monday night football games, which I'm spending a lot of time watching film.

no Cowgirls stuff.

I will update as it goes(oops coulda put this in the Stadium)

[bubba9497]

The Eagles have the more talent and depth on the offensive and defensive lines in the NFC

:doh: no they don't

[Ken]

:doh: no they don't

Who does then?

Remember, they are talking about both lines and talent and depth.

Hint: It is definitely not the Skins....

[Kurd Cudins]

Who does then?

Remember, they are talking about both lines and talent and depth.

Hint: It is definitely not the Skins....

The skins have the best O-line, the Feables have the best D-line.

Overall, however, I think the Feables do have the best "lines" in the east.

My ranking of the trenches:

Feables

Skins

Pukes

Gay-ants

[bubba9497]

Who does then?

Remember, they are talking about both lines and talent and depth.

Hint: It is definitely not the Skins....

as usual, you don't know what your talking about

The eagles have only the third best OL in the East, and zero depth, and I am not sold on how "great" their DL is supposed to be, they were bad last season, and Howard doesn't make them great.

overall depth on both lines, I would say Seattle

[Ken]

as usual, you don't know what your talking about

The eagles have only the third best OL in the East, and zero depth, and I am not sold on how "great" their DL is supposed to be, they were bad last season, and Howard doesn't make them great.

overall depth on both lines, I would say Seattle

Wow.

I don't know what I'm talking about but you spout off nonsense and it makes complete sense...gotcha. :thumbsup:

Howard is a much better defensive end than anyone on the Redskins. So please, keep spouting homer nonsense.

Walker was hurt for most of last year and will be rotating with an impressive 2nd year player in Patterson. Bunkly has been pretty impressive and at the least, represents the talent end of the equation. Forgive me if I'm not impressed with the "talent" of Boshetti and Gholston. Lol.

Throw in Rayburn, and you can see they go about 4 deep at DT.

Now, on passing downs, Cole comes in to give them a third legitimate pass rusher to go with Kearse and Howard. Few teams can do that. BTW, Cole also represents talent along with Patterson.

The Skins Oline might be the best starting unit, but where is the "talent" in the backups?

The Eagles have guys like Justice, Jean-Gilles, and this Cole guy who has been impressive playing center. I was more impressed with their depth when they had Fraley on the bench. These guys are unproven but they do represent the talent end of the equation.

[Ken]

as usual, you don't know what your talking about

The eagles have only the third best OL in the East, and zero depth, and I am not sold on how "great" their DL is supposed to be, they were bad last season, and Howard doesn't make them great.

overall depth on both lines, I would say Seattle

Seattle.

Can't say I know their personel as well as the Eagles but they do appear to be soft at backup DE.

In addition, losing a guy like Hutchinson can't help the depth of you squad.

Maybe BlueTalon can chime in on this...

[DCsportsfan53]

:doh: no they don't

If you're factoring depth, then I believe he's right, the Eagles would be #1.

[OWUeagleMD]

If you're factoring depth, then I believe he's right, the Eagles would be #1.

He included a neato emoticon though. That makes his point for him. No evidence neccesary when you include a "what-a-fool" emoticon.

[DCsportsfan53]

He included a neato emoticon though. That makes his point for him. No evidence neccesary when you include a "what-a-fool" emoticon.

Yeah, even if you disagree and think Seattle's lines are better, the comment wasn't deserving of a :doh: . At the very least, the Eagles have to be under strong consideration if you're talking about the best and deepest lines in the NFC.

[tr1]

Wow.

Howard is a much better defensive end than anyone on the Redskins. So please, keep spouting homer nonsense.

Let me just say, Bull****.

Howard had durability problems, and he isn't consistent. Last year, he had 3.5 sacks.

When you make stuff up, try to desguise that you don't know what you're talking about.

[tr1]

He included a neato emoticon though. That makes his point for him. No evidence neccesary when you include a "what-a-fool" emoticon.

The Eagles' lines were so good last year, they got them to a 6-10 record...:doh:

There's some evidence for ya.

[bubba9497]

Wow.

I don't know what I'm talking about but you spout off nonsense and it makes complete sense...gotcha. :thumbsup:

Howard is a much better defensive end than anyone on the Redskins. So please, keep spouting homer nonsense.

Walker was hurt for most of last year and will be rotating with an impressive 2nd year player in Patterson. Bunkly has been pretty impressive and at the least, represents the talent end of the equation. Forgive me if I'm not impressed with the "talent" of Boshetti and Gholston. Lol.

Throw in Rayburn, and you can see they go about 4 deep at DT.

Now, on passing downs, Cole comes in to give them a third legitimate pass rusher to go with Kearse and Howard. Few teams can do that. BTW, Cole also represents talent along with Patterson.

The Skins Oline might be the best starting unit, but where is the "talent" in the backups?

The Eagles have guys like Justice, Jean-Gilles, and this Cole guy who has been impressive playing center. I was more impressed with their depth when they had Fraley on the bench. These guys are unproven but they do represent the talent end of the equation.

what nonsense, The Eagles OL was horrible last season, #27 in rushing, #19 in YPA, and #21 in Sacks allowed giving up 42. and they traded away Fraley, and have rookies as backups... Quality depth. :thumbsup:

Howard better than anyone on the Skins whatever yeah those 3.5 sacks were awesome

The Philly DL is okay, They were #20 against the run last season and #25 in sacks again hardly quailfies for overall best talent on either line.

and did I say The Skins were the best overall????

[bubba9497]

He included a neato emoticon though. That makes his point for him. No evidence neccesary when you include a "what-a-fool" emoticon.

you'll be the first to know

[tr1]

Bubba, quit throwing facts at them...you know how that makes them angry...

[Number5]

As far as I can see, some of the Redskins fans are basing their assumptions on last seasons stats and using them to evaulate this current seasons talent? While others such as Ken are using what they have seen thus far during the pre-season with the new players added to the mix and playing thus far as well as the returning players current performances to evaulate them.

In a world where "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE LATELY", I see it almost upsurd to try and use stats from over 8 months old to decide the current talent levels of either team. What does last seasons stats have to do with now? Did Bunkley play for the Eagles last season or FSU? How can Howard stats while playing for the Saints last season affect his current performance with the Eagles? As far as I can see, he has been nothing but outstanding thus far for the team, but then again, I am basing this on seeing him help the team, right now...as opposed to some within this thread who would tell you straight up, last year, he sucked, so he'll suck this year, even though he is healthy, playing in a new system for a new team, and has a new attitude.

See what I'm getting at? Or let me put it this way, last season, the Steelers won the Super Bowl, but they lost Randel El, the Bus and several other key cogs to the team....because they won the title, last year, and using the current train of thought that I've seen thoughout this thread, this would all but hand the Steelers the trophey, because they won it last season....correct?

[bulldog]

then what is the argument for picking the Giants to win the East again?

certainly, for Giants fans it would be because increased continuity and the maturation of Eli Manning should add to their win totals, given the usual caveats for injuries, etc.

no team is going to play the same way in two consecutive years, week to week.

however, when you see certain things like a top 10 defense consistently fielded here under Gregg Williams, are folks suddenly supposed to ignore that and think the Redskins will have trouble stopping Chester Taylor and the Vikings?

or are they going to think that the same players with some significant additions from 2005 will if anything be stronger over a 16 game schedule in 2006?

[Goaldeje]

So, No.5, you're saying Ken has watched all the starters' snaps in the preseason this year for all 4 teams in the NFC East, if not the NFC? I think most people would agree that the preseason means nothing. What else do we have to go on but last year?

I don't think Howard sucks; in fact, I think he has a good chance to be a major contributor this year. However, he seems to be injured often, and didn't light it up last year with the Saints, so it's not like there aren't any causes for concern at all. It's the same arguement you guys throw at us about Carter. He has sucked for the past two years. We think he will be much better b/c of a new scheme that better suits him, new team, etc. You guys think Howard will be better b/c he will be playing on a defense with better players than in New Orleans. Both are reasonable expectations.

As to the point Gary Horton was trying to make, this is a stupid arguement. As we Redksins fans have especially seen, coaching is paramount in the NFL. Gregg Williams takes guys who don't have the most talent in the world (Salavae, Boschetti, etc) and makes them serviceable linemen, even turning our D-line into a dominating run-stopping unit. Griffin is clearly the best player on our line, but would you consider him a superstar? Absolutely not.

Talking about depth from strictly a talent point of view is somewhat silly, particularly on defense. We just let one of our biggest-talent guys walk in Lavar, and yet we hang onto Wynn? Coaching not talent.

[tr1]

N5, using your logic, the Skins will be better on the D-Line with the acquisition of Carter, right?

Now, if you're basing things on what you saw in preseason, then good luck. I saw a Dallas team look great against NO and SF...and I know that's an illusion since their o-line is for ****, and their running back is average.

Until the bullets fly, last year's regular season is your best indicator...

If you think your O-line will immediately be better because a rookie will start, again, good luck. You should be glad that Andy doesn't think like that.

[bubba9497]

As far as I can see, some of the Redskins fans are basing their assumptions on last seasons stats and using them to evaulate this current seasons talent? While others such as Ken are using what they have seen thus far during the pre-season with the new players added to the mix and playing thus far as well as the returning players current performances to evaulate them.

In a world where "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE LATELY", I see it almost upsurd to try and use stats from over 8 months old to decide the current talent levels of either team. What does last seasons stats have to do with now? Did Bunkley play for the Eagles last season or FSU? How can Howard stats while playing for the Saints last season affect his current performance with the Eagles? As far as I can see, he has been nothing but outstanding thus far for the team, but then again, I am basing this on seeing him help the team, right now...as opposed to some within this thread who would tell you straight up, last year, he sucked, so he'll suck this year, even though he is healthy, playing in a new system for a new team, and has a new attitude.

See what I'm getting at? Or let me put it this way, last season, the Steelers won the Super Bowl, but they lost Randel El, the Bus and several other key cogs to the team....because they won the title, last year, and using the current train of thought that I've seen thoughout this thread, this would all but hand the Steelers the trophey, because they won it last season....correct?

Well since the previous season is the most accurate stats to base a teams abilities with, and the fact that the team is almost the same in both units as far as starters, and same coaching.... it is fairly reliable indictor... unless of course the stats don't say what you want them to... then they are pointless :laugh:

Ah yes the "preseason" argument always used when they don't have squat in regular season to back up some silly opinion.

Even in "preseason" the eagles haven't done squat on the OL to be impressive, #27 in rushing, #27 in YPA, and #23 in sacks allowed... and again they have a couple rookie backups

Has Bunky even played with the first unit yet? The two games I saw him play in preseason, he wasn't doing anything against backups, and scrubs... but he is going to Morph into the superman eagle fans have been claiming he will be over night

The Defense in preseason was #18 in rushing Defense, #16 in YPA, they did have the most sacks... but again in preseason.... until they do it when it counts, I hold reservations about how "great" they are going to be.

but still it is noway good enough to proclaim they have the best OL & DL, including depth.

[Number5]

So, No.5, you're saying Ken has watched all the starters' snaps in the preseason this year for all 4 teams in the NFC East, if not the NFC? I think most people would agree that the preseason means nothing. What else do we have to go on but last year?

No I believe that he didn't watch all 4 teams, but anybody with common sense would understand that things change over time. Just because you were dominate last season doesn't mean things will carry over. If that were the case than last season the Eagles would have went undefeated because of 2004. Using your arguement, that season, they were great and based on 2004 stats, 2005 they should have been better. Yet, anyone who watched that team through the pre-season and regular season would quickly note that they were in fact worse. What you can go on is actually watch how the team performs during the pre-season and look for certain things such as pressure provided by the 1s and 2s against the opponents 1s and 2s. You can look at certain players to see if they regained their explosiveness or their agility.

I don't think Howard sucks; in fact, I think he has a good chance to be a major contributor this year. However, he seems to be injured often, and didn't light it up last year with the Saints, so it's not like there aren't any causes for concern at all. It's the same arguement you guys throw at us about Carter. He has sucked for the past two years. We think he will be much better b/c of a new scheme that better suits him, new team, etc. You guys think Howard will be better b/c he will be playing on a defense with better players than in New Orleans. Both are reasonable expectations.

Agreed! :applause:

As to the point Gary Horton was trying to make, this is a stupid arguement. As we Redksins fans have especially seen, coaching is paramount in the NFL. Gregg Williams takes guys who don't have the most talent in the world (Salavae, Boschetti, etc) and makes them serviceable linemen, even turning our D-line into a dominating run-stopping unit. Griffin is clearly the best player on our line, but would you consider him a superstar? Absolutely not.

Talking about depth from strictly a talent point of view is somewhat silly, particularly on defense. We just let one of our biggest-talent guys walk in Lavar, and yet we hang onto Wynn? Coaching not talent.

[Number5]

N5, using your logic, the Skins will be better on the D-Line with the acquisition of Carter, right?

Now, if you're basing things on what you saw in preseason, then good luck. I saw a Dallas team look great against NO and SF...and I know that's an illusion since their o-line is for ****, and their running back is average.

Until the bullets fly, last year's regular season is your best indicator...

If you think your O-line will immediately be better because a rookie will start, again, good luck. You should be glad that Andy doesn't think like that.

Has Carter thus far elevated the play of your DL?

Has he allowed you secondary to gamble a tad more because of the pressure that he has applied thus far this season?

Using your logic, it seems that since he had a bad season last year, that he would only decrease the level of play from your defense....correct?

I want to note a couple of things from your post though....

1 - Please tell me the rookie who will be starting on the Eagles OL? From what I typed, I never mentioned even 1 rookie starting for the team.

2 - With the amount of turnover, is it really a fair gauge to use last seasons stats, especially for my team when, A) McNabb played half the season, The Eagles were behind in more than half of their games C) A supposed commitment to run more? Seeing how things are bound to change, why use stats from last year, if this year is to be different?

[bubba9497]

C) A supposed commitment to run more? Seeing how things are bound to change, why use stats from last year, if this year is to be different?

because what you want to happen, and what will really happen is two different things, and since this year hasn't started.... how can you use stats that haven't happened??

you listen to every team they have gotten better, yet there are still going to be losers and nothing is in concrete until after the season has began. until there is proof other wise, you go with what you know to be true.

and please save all the McNabb missed 6 games , he doesn't play on either line.

[Number5]

Well since the previous season is the most accurate stats to base a teams abilities with, and the fact that the team is almost the same in both units as far as starters, and same coaching.... it is fairly reliable indictor... unless of course the stats don't say what you want them to... then they are pointless :laugh:

Ah yes the "preseason" argument always used when they don't have squat in regular season to back up some silly opinion.

Even in "preseason" the eagles haven't done squat on the OL to be impressive, #27 in rushing, #27 in YPA, and #23 in sacks allowed... and again they have a couple rookie backups

Has Bunky even played with the first unit yet? The two games I saw him play in preseason, he wasn't doing anything against backups, and scrubs... but he is going to Morph into the superman eagle fans have been claiming he will be over night

The Defense in preseason was #18 in rushing Defense, #16 in YPA, they did have the most sacks... but again in preseason.... until they do it when it counts, I hold reservations about how "great" they are going to be.

but still it is noway good enough to proclaim they have the best OL & DL, including depth.

1 - Yes Bunkely played and even started with the 1s....against the Steelers.

2 - While you pull stats regarding what the team has done during the pre-season....are those stats for the entire game ro just the 1s and possible 2s. The reason I ask this is because for the most part, only the 1s and 2s are going to be playing during the season and with guys trying to make the team, the talent level between back up and starter is quite a jump.

3 - While I don't agree with annoiting the Eagles the DEEPEST OL AND DL in the NFC, I will say that they are going to be pretty good and shock a lot of people. If you watched the impact that Howard and Bunkley to and extent have had thus far while using "vanilla" schemes, just imagine what will happen when the real games begin.

This season should be a good test for all NFC East teams as well as there fans.

[Number5]

and please save all the McNabb missed 6 games , he doesn't play on either line.

True...but during his last season, he showed that he couldn't run from them like he normally does either. A mobile McNabb can make a OL look ALL-PRO....(i.e. the famous 14 second scramble against Dallas)