Borders & Waldenbooks Ban Mohammed Cartoons

[brewdogmike]

I guess freedom of speech and of the press isn't a priority in this case:

Borders and Waldenbooks stores will not stock the April-May issue of Free Inquiry magazine because it contains cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad that provoked deadly protests among Muslims in several countries.

“For us, the safety and security of our customers and employees is a top priority, and we believe that carrying this issue could challenge that priority,” Borders Group Inc. spokeswoman Beth Bingham said Wednesday.

It gets better:

I work for Borders Books and after reading the article you posted on Wed. 3/29 about our company not carrying the magazine due to it showing the dreaded cartoons of blasphemy, I thought I should write with another tidbit of information I learned about my company the other week.

I was shifting rows of books in our religion section and it happened to be that all of our Koran books (a section on its own) ended up on the bottom shelf. The next day I was informed by my General Manager that it is Borders policy as a whole (not my particular store) that due to complaints in the past from Muslim customers, we are not allowed to put our copies of the Koran on any shelf other than the top.

Commentary: This has nothing to do with sensitivity; it’s all about pure, simple fear. If a Christian group complained to Borders about Bibles being placed on a bottom shelf, they would be laughed out of the room. But when Muslims do the same thing, Borders institutes a store-wide policy. The difference? The implicit or explicit threats of violence that accompany the latter.

[Kilmer17]

They are a private company.

If you want to make a point, dont buy from them.

But they're making this decision based on their idea of what is best for their bottom line.

Freedom of Speech doesnt apply. There is no Govt entity preventing them from displaying or selling it.

[Redskins Diehard]

They are a private company.

If you want to make a point, dont buy from them.

But they're making this decision based on their idea of what is best for their bottom line.

Freedom of Speech doesnt apply. There is no Govt entity preventing them from displaying or selling it.

And that about sums it up.

I'm starting to wonder if people really know what the Freedom of Speech really means. So many people apparently think that you should be able to say whatever you want and face absolutely no consequences.

[brewdogmike]

Now, I don't want to get into a whole discussion about boycotts and the company's right to do this or that. And, yes, the First Amendment does not apply directly. I wish only to point out that a major American corporation has decided pre-emptively not to sell a magazine containing these "offensive" images -- and they said this was for the safety and security of their customers and employees.

The threat of violence -- just the non-specific, generalized hint that violence might result -- is enough for them to pull the cartoons. That's all they need to decide that their customers do not need to see the cartoons.

This from a company that regularly celebrates "banned books" and pats itself on the back for carrying other controversial books. Think of what kind of repugnant things you could easily find in one of those huge bookstores! But what this company is saying is, they have no respect for their customers' right to choose what they wish to read.

So what's it going to be next time? What's going to happen the next time that something you and I consider to be "free speech" is branded as "offensive" to Muslims, and effectively banned?

[Kilmer17]

If I want to go into Borders and buy a book on Neo Nazi recruiting methods, I bet I cant find one. Does that mean they dont respect my rights?

Moral equivalency is a bad argument. You cant excuse bad behavior by pointing out other bad behavior.

[brewdogmike]

If I want to go into Borders and buy a book on Neo Nazi recruiting methods, I bet I cant find one. Does that mean they dont respect my rights?

What that means is, the company has no fear of violence (we dare not call it terrorism) if they keep the book on the shelves.

The company assumes, rightly or wrongly, that violence could ensue from carrying a magazine containing cartoons supposedly offensive to Muslims. And, therefore, under threat of violence or appearing insensitive, that particular magazine will not be offered for sale, while the Nazi book will remain in stock.

It doesn't offend you on some level that rioting Muslims somewhere overseas, and their presumed supporters here in the United States are determining what you can and cannot read in America?

[Kilmer17]

You really need to do a search of the forums regarding my views on Muslim extremism.

I have MANY issues with it.

But Im not going to blame a Capitalist Company for making a Capitalist decision.

[HSW]

Now, I don't want to get into a whole discussion about boycotts and the company's right to do this or that. And, yes, the First Amendment does not apply directly. I wish only to point out that a major American corporation has decided pre-emptively not to sell a magazine containing these "offensive" images -- and they said this was for the safety and security of their customers and employees.

The threat of violence -- just the non-specific, generalized hint that violence might result -- is enough for them to pull the cartoons. That's all they need to decide that their customers do not need to see the cartoons.

This from a company that regularly celebrates "banned books" and pats itself on the back for carrying other controversial books. Think of what kind of repugnant things you could easily find in one of those huge bookstores! But what this company is saying is, they have no respect for their customers' right to choose what they wish to read.

So what's it going to be next time? What's going to happen the next time that something you and I consider to be "free speech" is branded as "offensive" to Muslims, and effectively banned?

Not an issue...if any large customer base complains about something

they will and should (if they like making money) accomodate the request.

[brewdogmike]

You really need to do a search of the forums regarding my views on Muslim extremism.

I have MANY issues with it.

But Im not going to blame a Capitalist Company for making a Capitalist decision.

Fine. I blame an American company for making a cowardly decision.

[Kilmer17]

Fine. I blame an American company for making a cowardly decision.

precicely.

I like smaller independant bookstores better anyway.

[brewdogmike]

precicely.

I like smaller independant bookstores better anyway.

I guess they have those in Bradenton, because there sure aren't any in Northern Virginia.

[Guest Gichin13]

You really need to do a search of the forums regarding my views on Muslim extremism.

I have MANY issues with it.

But Im not going to blame a Capitalist Company for making a Capitalist decision.

on the money here.

if you do not like their decision, buy your books elsewhere and send a letter telling them of your decisions.

[Kilmer17]

They are there. You just have to look for them.

[rincewind]

They are a private company.

If you want to make a point, dont buy from them.

But they're making this decision based on their idea of what is best for their bottom line.

Freedom of Speech doesnt apply. There is no Govt entity preventing them from displaying or selling it.

Borders is a public company - f***ers made me sell my stock when i quit.

Obviously, i worked there. There are quite a few books that they carry but don't have in the store - you have to special order them. An examply would be the Anarchist Cookbook. Its unfair to say the banned the book, when i guarantee they would order it for you.

As for the Koran on the top shelf thing - unless that is a new rule within the past year, I cry bull****.

[rincewind]

I guess freedom of speech and of the press isn't a priority in this case:

It gets better:

Commentary: This has nothing to do with sensitivity; it’s all about pure, simple fear. If a Christian group complained to Borders about Bibles being placed on a bottom shelf, they would be laughed out of the room. But when Muslims do the same thing, Borders institutes a store-wide policy. The difference? The implicit or explicit threats of violence that accompany the latter.

Your commentary is biased and off. They listen to ALL customer complaints and take them seriously. When i worked in Largo, we received quite a few complaints about the location of the Africian-American section - it was moved. We received complaints about the CHRISTIAN section being near the gay/lesian section - the gay/lesbian section was moved.

So there goes that theory.

[PleaseBlitz]

They are there. You just have to look for them.

Kilmer, i agree with you on this issues totally.

But there arent any mom and pop bookstores.

[Kilmer17]

I meant private not Govt.

Not talking about the ownership of the company. Just that it's not the Govt.

For those in the DC area-

http://www.olssons.com/index.html

In Loudoun County-

http://www.booksandcrannies.com/

In the Shenedoah valley-

http://www.givensbooks.com/index.php

That took a 5 second google search. I sure there are plenty more.

As I said, you just have to look for them.

[brewdogmike]

Your commentary is biased and off. They listen to ALL customer complaints and take them seriously. When i worked in Largo, we received quite a few complaints about the location of the Africian-American section - it was moved. We received complaints about the CHRISTIAN section being near the gay/lesian section - the gay/lesbian section was moved.

So there goes that theory.

The point is, there were no complaints. This was a pre-emptive decision, made because they fear violence. They said, in effect, we're not even going to let these cartoons in the front door because we're afraid of what Muslims might do to us.

I'm not talking about a company responding to consumer complaints -- I'm talking about a company making the decision to self-censor based on the threat of mob violence and/or terrorism.

[PleaseBlitz]

I meant private not Govt.

Not talking about the ownership of the company. Just that it's not the Govt.

For those in the DC area-

http://www.olssons.com/index.html

In Loudoun County-

http://www.booksandcrannies.com/

In the Shenedoah valley-

http://www.givensbooks.com/index.php

That took a 5 second google search. I sure there are plenty more.

As I said, you just have to look for them.

Wow. I just did a Mapquest search for Fairfax County. Got nuthin'

Plus, i like Borders. Does that make me a bad person?

[rincewind]

The point is, there were no complaints. This was a pre-emptive decision, made because they fear violence. They said, in effect, we're not even going to let these cartoons in the front door because we're afraid of what Muslims might do to us.

I'm not talking about a company responding to consumer complaints -- I'm talking about a company making the decision to self-censor based on the threat of mob violence and/or terrorism.

If a Christian group complained to Borders about Bibles being placed on a bottom shelf, they would be laughed out of the room. But when Muslims do the same thing, Borders institutes a store-wide policy. The difference? The implicit or explicit threats of violence that accompany the latter.

Which is it? In one post you say 'if Christians complained', then you say 'i'm not talking about complaints'.

I understand where you're coming from about the assumed violence, but you brought up the whole 'Christian complaints' thing.

I still say they have the right to not carry something that has sparked widespread violence around the world. They also don't actively carry 'The Satanic Verses' by the way.

[Kilmer17]

Not at all. I've been in many Borders. I like it.

I just prefer smaller independant stores.

Here's a copied list from somewhere. It includes major chains as well. But lots of independents.

Alexandria, VA:

Blue and Gray Books and Prints (210 King, second floor, Alexandria

22314, 703-739-9849). A Civil War bookstore. Open Sun-Thu

12N-6PM, Fri-Sat 12N-9PM.

Book Bank (110 S West, 22314, 703-838-3620 or 703-598-6988,

bookbank1@cs.com). Over 20,000 used books, hardback and

paperback. Good SF and mystery sections. Open Mon-Thu

11:30-5PM, Fri-Sat 11AM-6:30PM, Sun 12:30N-5PM. [10/03]

Book Rack (7001 J Manchester Blvd, Alexandria 22310, 703-780-2325).

Used bookstore, mainly paperback. Open Mon-Thu 11AM-7PM,

Fri-Sat 10AM-6PM, Sun 12N-5PM.

Cosmic Book Store (10953 Lute Court, 703-330-8573). SF and comics;

affiliated with Hole in the Wall. "Excellent bookstore, though

the prices are sometimes a bit high."

From Out of the Past (703-768-7827). "Eclectic mix of books, sometimes

overpriced badly IMHO, but *the* place in Washington to buy

things like old Life magazines. They currently have no store but

hope to get one in 1996. They are running a mail order business

and you can call them.

Kay's Bookshelf (8727-D Cooper Rd, Alexandria 22309, 703-360-3202).

General used books, mainly paperback. Open Mon, Wed, Fri 10AM-8PM;

Tue, Thu 10AM-6PM; Sat 10AM-5PM; Sun 12N-5PM.

A Likely Story (1555 King west of Washington, Alexandria,

703-836-2498). A good children's bookstore. Open Mon-Sat

10AM-6PM, Sun 1PM-5PM.

Olsson's Books and Records (106 S Union, Alexandria 22314,

703-684-0077). For description, see main entry under Washington

DC, Dupont Circle. Open Mon-Thu 10AM-10AM, Fri-Sat 10AM-12M,

Sun 11AM-6PM.

One Good Tern (1710 Fern, Alexandria 22302, 800-432-8376 or

703-820-8376). New books on nature and the environment as well as

nature and bird paraphernalia. Open Mon, Wed, Fri 10AM-6PM;

Tue, Thu 10AM-8PM; Sat 9AM-6PM; Sun 12N-5PM.

Ptak Science Books (810 N Fairfax, Alexandria 22314, 703-683-6837, FAX

703-684-6843, JFPtak@access.digex.net). One block west of the river

and 8 blocks north of King St. Used and antiquarian science books

and maps. Open Wed-Sat 12N-5PM.

Voyages Books and Art (209 Madison Ave, Alexandria 22304, 703-739-2484).

"They are in the Washington Antiques Center (at the back) at Madison

and North Fairfax. Relatively small stock of used and antiquarian

books. Despite the name I found very few travel books but a more

general stock." Open 11AM-6PM seven days a week.

Arlington, VA:

Aladdin's Lamp (2499 N Harrison, Lee-Harrison shopping center,

Arlington 22207, 703-241-8281, aladlamp@speakeasy.org). New

children's books. Open Mon, Wed, Fri-Sat 10AM-6PM; Tue, Thu

10AM-8PM, Sun 11AM-4PM. [04/05]

Bookhouse (805 N Emerson, Arlington 22205, 703-527-7797,

nhughes@bookhouse.com). Off Wilson Blvd by Safeway and a

couple of blocks from George Mason. The store is in a private

house. High-quality used and rare book store. Open Wed-Sun

1PM-6PM. [10/03]

Berryville, VA:

Berryville Old Book Shop (17 E Main, Berryville 22611, 540-955-7070,

ajustice@shentel.net). Self-described as "a delightful

assortment for all readers, emphasizing History, Military,

Children's." Open Thu-Sat 12N-5PM; also Fri evenings in

summer. [10/03]

Burke, VA:

Burke Used Books (9570-L Burke Rd, Burke 22015, 703-426-2901,

burkebooks@onebox.com). Both hard and paperbacks. Open

Mon-Sat 10AM-8PM, Sun 12N-5PM. [10/03]

Centreville, VA:

Mc Kay Used Books Inc (6011 Centreville Crest Ln, Centreville 22020,

in Centreville Square II Shopping Centre opposite Shoppers Food

Warehouse, 703-830-4048). "This is a big store (two adjacent

store fronts) with lots of used books, CDs and videos also some

used software and DVDs. The organization of the books is a bit

haphazard with regards to alphabetization but there are plenty

of books to choose from. There is a smaller sister store in

Manassas, VA which also carries used CDs, videos and DVDs."

Open Mon-Sat 9AM-10PM, Sun 10AM-8PM. [10/03]

Chantilly, VA:

C&W Used Books (13888 Metro Tech Dr, Sully Place Shopping Center,

Chantilly, 703-968-7323). Similar to their store in

Woodbridge, VA. "Both are very well organized and tend to

carry very clean copies of the used books. To my tastes the

one in Chantilly is slightly superior but I can't put my

finger on why."

Falls Church, VA:

Burke Used Books (7395 Lee Hwy, Falls Church 22042, 703-206-9230,

burkebooks@onebox.com). Both hard and paperbacks. A

branch of the Burka, VA, store. Open Mon-Sat 10AM-8PM, Sun 12N-5PM. [10/03]

Mon-Sat 10AM-8PM, Sun 12N-5PM. [10/03]

Hole in the Wall (905 W Broad, Falls Church 22046, 703-536-2511). It's

in a private house on the left (as you going towards Tysons Corner).

SF, fantasy, and strange odds and ends. Open Mon-Fri 10AM-8PM,

Sat-Sun 10AM-6PM. [10/03]

Mike's Books (5618 Columbia Pike, Falls Church 22041, 703-820-5050). In

a small mall behind Bailey's Crossroads, on the left just past

Circuit City (if you are traveling east). Look for the Craven Tire

sign. This may well be the name of the store (at least according

to owner Mike Hardisty) but the sign on the door says Mike's TV, as

Mike is primarily a TV and stereo repair guy. He decided to use

some spare space to get rid of his surplus books and the bookstore

idea blossomed from there. Though the stock is small and you will

have to climb over old TVs to see it, it is surprisingly good and

pretty cheap. Good on history, particularly Civil War and WWII

(Mike's heroes are Sherman and Patton) but used books in other

areas as well. [stay tuned on this, as the owner died 12 Oct 1997,

and no one is sure what will happen with the store.] Open Mon-Fri

10AM-6PM, Sat 10AM-2PM.

Scriblerus (250 W Broad, Falls Church 22043, 703-573-4114,

http://www.scriblerus.com). Antiquarian books, scholarly

editions, antique maps. Open Mon-Sat 10AM-5PM, Sun 12N-5PM.

[10/03]

Manassas, VA:

Hole in the Wall Books. Someone said there was a branch of the Falls

Church store in Manassas. [06/04]

Mc Kay Used Books Inc (8389 Sudley Rd, Manaport Plaza, Manassas

20109, 703-361-9042). "Mainly paperback and cheap hardback

used books." Also CDs and videos. Open Mon-Sat 9AM-10PM,

Sun 10AM-8PM. [10/03]

Propero's Books (9121 Center, Manassas 20110, 703-257-7895). General

used bookstore, including history, Civil War, fiction (quite

a few old novels). Reasonable prices. Open Mon-Sat 10AM-8PM,

Fri 10AM-9PM, Sun 12N-6PM. [03/06]

The Manassas National Battlefield Site at Sudley has a good stock of

new books on the Civil War, particularly on the two battles of

Manassas/Bull Run. On the other hand, it's skimpier than many other

National Battlefield bookstores.

McLean, VA:

Old Book Co. of McLean (6829 Redmond Dr, McLean 22101, 703-734-0858,

FAX 703-734-0885, http://www.abebooks.com/home/oldbookco).

From Route 123, turn right onto Old Dominion and right onto

Beverly. Store is in row of shops on left. Good-quality

general used book store, with good stock on Americana, things

English, spy stuff. Open Mon-Sat 11AM-8PM, Sun 1PM-6PM.

Reston, VA:

Barnes & Noble.

Reston's Used Book Shop (1623 Washington Plaza, Reston 22090,

703-435-9772, reidbooks2@aol.com). From Reston Parkway, right

onto Baron Cameron (660), right on Village Road, left on

Northshore, immediate right into Lake Anne Parking Area.

General used stock, reasonable prices. Open Apr-Dec

Mon 10AM-6PM, Tue-Sat 10AM-9PM, Sun 12N-9PM; Jan-Mar

Mon-Sat 10AM-7PM, Sun 12N-5PM..

Springfield, VA:

Barnes & Noble. [11/04]

Borders. [11/04]

Jeff's Baseball Corner (5222 Port Royal Rd, Springfield 22150,

703-321-9209, FAX 703-321-8881). "Specializing in out-of-print

sports books, periodicals, magazines, memorabilia" per the ad in

the phone book. Open Mon-Fri 10AM-8PM, Sat 10AM-6PM, Sun 12N-5PM.

Vienna, VA:

Borders (Tyson's Square, 8311 Leesburg Pike, Vienna 22182, 703-556-7766).

Just beyond Tysons on Route 7 (going east), on the left. Even

bigger than the Bethesda store. Coffee shop. Open Mon-Thu

9AM-10PM, Fri-Sat 9AM-11PM, Sun 11AM-7PM.

README.DOC (280A Cedar Ln, Vienna VA 22180, 703-645-8010,

http://www.readmedoc.com. Discount computer books. Also has

stores in Chambersburg PA and Gaithersburg MD. Open Mon-Fri

11AM-8PM, Sat 11AM-6PM, Sun 12N-5PM.

[brewdogmike]

Which is it? In one post you say 'if Christians complained', then you say 'i'm not talking about complaints'.

The second quote was from the source I cited. It was not mine. But the point it makes is valid -- the difference is the threat of violence.

And I'm sure they don't carry Satanic Verses anymore, and it wasn't because some people wrote some complaint letters -- it was because of the threat of violence.

[oriolesfan93p]

Its a cowardly thing for them to have done but frankly I am not suprised. I don't shop there anyways so they can do what ever they want, its a free country and they are not imposing on anyones freedom of speech they are simply using their freedom to choose what to and not to sell.

[Kilmer17]

BTW, anyone else thinking about the debates over pharmacies refusing to seel birth control?

[rincewind]

The second quote was from the source I cited. It was not mine. But the point it makes is valid -- the difference is the threat of violence.

Okay, i thought that was your commentary.

And I'm sure they don't carry Satanic Verses anymore, and it wasn't because some people wrote some complaint letters -- it was because of the threat of violence.

Then they're consistant. I don't blame them for not carrying things they fear might incite violence in their stores. But people made it sound like its a Muslim thing, as if they are afraid of Muslim violence. Not true - they are afraid for their employee's safety, period.