dahurt002 Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 "Champ was rarely considered the best CB before he left the Redskins."are you serious? well......apparently someone n Denver was willing to wager with the dollar sign that they knew better than you. so...who did you speak to among NFL GMs, personnel departments and coaching staffs to settle upon this pov? Fansince62 is right after Champ left the skins is when he became CONSIDERED the best CB, but when he was a Skin the media called him a Top Five CB, He was never considered to be the best CB in the NFL until he left the skins- Thats my point, the media made Smoot out to be a Pro-Bowl CB when he left the skins- Yeah Right- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishOrange15 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Note #3: Lavar didn't start in 8 games not 7. Not sure how that will affect the numbers. . I went right to the NFL.com's Gamebook link for each box score and double checked the starts and the number of starts that I had for Lavar are correct. Just double checked them. Rich...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahudson Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 hey I can play the stat game too look Lavar played last year 13 games in the regualr season . Chriss Clemons played 14 games ...who do you think had more sacks more forced fumbles (they both had the same number of defeletced passes.)The point of this . Numbers dont tell you everything and although saying the defence was better with Arrington playing than not might be true that cannot be used to say Arrington was the reason the Defence was playing better, there are just too many other factors to take into account . I don't have an agenda and I am not trying to prove anything with those numbers. But his own team mates have said he got them hype up and they were more excited when he was on the field. Of course that might just make him an on-field cheerleader, but I did think the stats were interesting. The most interesting thing to me was the amount of turnovers we recovered. I just can't help but think the opposing team was thinking about Lavar. Anyways, I think we will be fine, but Lavar's stats are meaningless. Defense is a team thing and what someone like Lavar, ST or C Griffin (any of our starters for that matter) do on the field (allowing others to make plays, etc) is what really needs to be judged. Not individual stats... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahudson Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 His stock with the media is going to skyrocket now that he is not here.Champ was rarely considered the best CB before he left the Redskins. Sorry, but this is crazy. Champ and McCallister (Ravens) were considered the top corners and Champ was considered the top cover guy in the league pretty much the whole time he was here and still is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IrishOrange15 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Fansince62 is right after Champ left the skins is when he became CONSIDERED the best CB, but when he was a Skin the media called him a Top Five CB, He was never considered to be the best CB in the NFL until he left the skins- Thats my point, the media made Smoot out to be a Pro-Bowl CB when he left the skins- Yeah Right- I think you're crazy on this one. I often times heard Champ considered by the media as the best CB in the game and every time they asked some player who was the best CB in the game, Champ's name always came up. Smoot was a Pro Bowl alternate in 2004. I always had a hard time thinking either Champ or Lavar were overrated since they always seemed to play well against my Cowboys. Smoot on the other hand I didn't think was all that great. However, I thought he fit into Williams' system very well. Rich...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazyhorse1 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Bingo! He was overrated at that price tag. I'm excited to see the players we sign/re-sign with the money we get back by letting him go. And I believe he truly didn't want to be here. A lot of you guys ought of start a Cult of the Coaches. As soon as the coaches make a questionable move, the player involved becomes villaineous and no count, an over-rated bum ok to dump on regardless of past service or future promise. Most of all, the player's positive stats become either meaningless or forgotten and the coaches' all encompassing wisdom is envoked. No wonder games are played on Sunday. Players don't really matter. What matter's is the coaches' divine plan. Coles was never a great or even good receiver. Gardner dropped so many passes his 1000 yd season was hardly worth it. Sure, Stephen Davis was good but Candidate better for the ball coach's team. So what that Ramsey had almost 6000 yds in a season and a half, he didn't show leadership and shuffled his feet. Arrington's 53 tackles in six starts in spot action didn't mean squat in 05, or Williams would have kept him. Holdman doesn't need to be good, he just needs to fit Williams' system. If Gibbs says Brunell's ok for the playoffs, that good enough for me. I trust the coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahudson Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Note #1: The Bears had 41 yards rushing that day. Note #2: The 49ers had 72 of their 140 yards rushing on one play and it was run directly at Lavar. Note #3: Lavar didn't start in 8 games not 7. Not sure how that will affect the numbers. Note #4: The games Lavar didn't start we had the exact same record as the games he started, 5-3. Not trying to bash Lavar just your reasoning. No offense taken. I should point out (as I did already) that I just took this from a Cowboys site. It really isn't my post or stats or idea. I just thought it was interesting. I for one, don't discount Lavar's effect on the defense even though I know he has his negative side as well. Most of his negatives are from trying to hard. I imagine he will do well at his next stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahudson Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 A lot of you guys ought of start a Cult of the Coaches. As soon as the coaches make a questionable move, the player involved becomes villaineous and no count, an over-rated bum ok to dump on regardless of past service or future promise. Don't forget how we think players like McCune or Sykes or whoever is going to be sooooo awesome because the Coaching staff has them on the roster. People are more comfortable turning on players they liked when they leave the team. It is easier to say "F him, he sucked anyways...." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiefPowhatan17 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 It is totally amusing that when a player plays for the SKINS he is overrated, but when he is out on the market he is going to be an impact somewhere. It has been the same on 980 this week. Everyone is saying how he will thrive elsewhere. Well, it just figures that they can't be great here or achieve thier potiential.. I miss the old days when guys like Monte Coleman, unselfishly would play for 15 years and never complain or miss a play. And always make the play. I miss those players.:helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dahurt002 Posted March 8, 2006 Author Share Posted March 8, 2006 I think you're crazy on this one.I often times heard Champ considered by the media as the best CB in the game and every time they asked some player who was the best CB in the game, Champ's name always came up. Smoot was a Pro Bowl alternate in 2004. I always had a hard time thinking either Champ or Lavar were overrated since they always seemed to play well against my Cowboys. Smoot on the other hand I didn't think was all that great. However, I thought he fit into Williams' system very well. Rich...... Don't get me wrong, I know Champ was the best, and some people called him the best but now its not even a question, I just feel some way his stock rose because he left the skins, I think its funny How a team has the best CB in the league replaces him with Springs(Who gets no Respect) and has no drop out at the position- I mean he made you forget about Champ- but What do I know (Champ=Best CB in League, Spring=O.K replacement) Now does that make sense to you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 I went right to the NFL.com's Gamebook link for each box score and double checked the starts and the number of starts that I had for Lavar are correct. Just double checked them.Rich...... According to his actually player page gamelog on nfl.com they list 8 starts. You might be right though because it lists him starting against Dallas and I'm pretty sure he only was in on a couple plays in that game. Either way there are so many subjective issues involved that you have to take those stats with a grain of salt. Denver and KC both have great rushing attacks and Lavar didn't play in either. In the Denver game on one of Bell's big runs Holdman wasn't on the field which probably means that Lavar wouldn't have been out there either. In the second Dallas game we ended up giving up over 100 yards rushing but everybody knows that we shut down their running game until we put in the scrubs at the end. I'm not a Lavar hater or lover. I liked Lavar and hate to see him go but I also think that his skills have diminished somewhat and isn't worth the money he was going to get. The long run by Frank Gore in the 49er game really sealed it for me. Nic Clemons blew by Lavar chasing Gore. Lavar looked like a 325 lb lineman trying to keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Happy Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 "Champ was rarely considered the best CB before he left the Redskins."are you serious? well......apparently someone n Denver was willing to wager with the dollar sign that they knew better than you. so...who did you speak to among NFL GMs, personnel departments and coaching staffs to settle upon this pov? We are talking about the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 On the other side of the ball, Griffin and Taylor had games they didnt start WHILE LaVar was starting. The thing to remember though is, the begining of the year the defense was pretty poor. It may have had a bit to do with Holdman, so ANY replacement would have been an improvement. We faced a couple young guys, but then again we did later on too, ones that played well and made our defense look worse. Whether the defensive performacne at the end of the year had anything to do with arrington, im sure a little did, but for the majority of it, its all up in the air. Hes gone now, we need to concentrate on a replacement. LaVar is the type of person people love to love, and love to hate, we have both here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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