Reviewing Endzone Plays

[RedzoneHunter]

After watching the Referees botch that 2 point conversion call at the end of the Skins - Bucs game, I've come up with an idea that I believe may help get these types of calls right in the future.

The problem with that call, and many others just like it, is that the line judges can't see through all of the huge bodies that are gathered in the center of the field from where they stand on the sidelines, and neither can the cameras on the goal line. So they come running into the center of the field to get a better view. This is no good, because the play has already expired by that time, and the possibility exists that a player could move from the spot of where he was actually tackled without being detected.

They have cameras installed that are aiming down the goal line, but these cameras have the same problem of not being able to see through the congestion at the center of the field. These cameras are at field level.

My suggestion to the league would not be to remove those goal line cameras, but to add to the ones that are already in place. They could add four more cameras, one at each corner, but instead of reviewing from ground level as they do now, they could zoom in from a camera pre-positioned at the top of the stadiums. This would allow them to see over the mass of bodies, without having to run in after the fact to see where they think a play has come to a stop, or guessing what could have happened. This may not catch everything, but my guess is that it would be very helpful at getting many of these calls right and eliminate a lot of this second guessing.

What do you guys think?

[NOVA2Tampa]

Well, unless the camera had X-ray vision, it still wouldn't help if the ball is under a huge pile of players.

[canesluver]

You could have one or more mounted to the goal posts, focusing on the goal line. That might give them another angle to add to the sideline cameras.

[heyholetsgogrant]

someone suggested earlier that the NFL should do what Fox did with the glowing NHL puck.

-Grant

[RedzoneHunter]

Well, unless the camera had X-ray vision, it still wouldn't help if the ball is under a huge pile of players.

Agreed, and that's why I said it couldn't catch everything, but those times of the ball being under a pile would probably be less than half of the time. Usually, the referee comes running in to get a better view, to be able to see over a body or two. The closer he gets, the higher his vantage point, but like I said, by this time it's too late to make a proper call in some cases.

[RedzoneHunter]

You could have one or more mounted to the goal posts, focusing on the goal line. That might give them another angle to add to the sideline cameras.

I thought about that too, but the trouble is that the goal posts are ten yards behind the goal line.

[canesluver]

I thought about that too, but the trouble is that the goal posts are ten yards behind the goal line.

If cameras can take pictures from space, I think they could focus on the goal line effectively. Problem is, they would have to have the sideline cameras as well, cameras mounted from the goal posts won't be as accurate as the sideline cameras on breaking the plane calls. They certainly could help though.

[RedzoneHunter]

back to page one

[RedzoneHunter]

I tried to make this as clear as I could, but I think some are still having trouble seeing what I'm suggesting in my first post.

Basically, I 'm suggesting that some goal line cameras need to be raised up above field or ground level. Like at the top of the stadium, or up as high as the Press Boxes and Coaches Boxes are, but right over the goal lines.

And if this technology would've been used last Sunday, I believe the Redskins would have officially won that game 35 - 34, as there would have been sufficient conclusive evidence to overturn a bum call.

[canesluver]

Where do you want to put these cameras? Every stadium is different. Can you mount cameras at press box or above levels at all stadiums? Will they all show the exact same view from each stadium depending on where they are situated? Will fan interference become a factor? The NFL wants a uniform state. I don't know whether you can mount cameras in all the stadiums, and get the same view? If you can't, I wouldn't think the NFL would consider it to be a viable option.

[spiderman6]

stop worrying about goal post cameras and worry about getting into the endzone. If you get into the endzone, you don't have to worry about calls during a game. When your game on the field and not in the film room

[canesluver]

When your game on the field and not in the film room

HUH....

[moondog]

ya how about we just put a sensor inside the ball and on the goalline so it goes off for a td.....dude just as spiderman said you get the ball in/stuff em before they get there = no TD i realize yer only tryin to help and its always a good idea but its never gonna change cuz it wont be perfect i still cant tell if it was good or not cuz sometimes it looks like the ball crosses then his upper body arches back and his elbow hits before the line

the refs screwed us many times earlier too but that wasnt the only reason we lost and unfortunately we all are pretty po'ed about it but lets just hope the skins get a come out blazing and put the game away early mentality cuz im tired of playin not to lose

[RedzoneHunter]

stop worrying about goal post cameras and worry about getting into the endzone. If you get into the endzone, you don't have to worry about calls during a game. When your game on the field and not in the film room

Dude, you missed the point completely. There's no need to worry about any of this. This thread is not about playing the game. I started this thread in hopes of finding ways to help improve the NFL's Instant Replay System. You may think it's perfect just the way it is, but I see plenty of room for improvement.

There probably are still a few people in this world that don't like improving modern technology, these are the ones who go to the cold out-houses instead of a warm bathroom with running water.

[LegionOfDoom]

How bout the refs not make a decision until viewing the replays first..if the ref maskes a call on the field now you need indisputable evidence to overturn his call. See the replay first than make the call....the same needs to be said for when a ref blows his whistle to stop a play...but replay clearly sees something else...now you can't challenge a play that is blown dead by the ref....these are examples of some rules that need to be addressed...blowing a play dead has hurt atleast every team.

[Titaw]

I think that they should put a featherlite radio transducer in between the skin and the bladder of the ball so when they do a replay they can watch the elctronic signature of the ball to see if it actually crossed the goal line. This is actually the only way you could tell in a pile if the ball had crossed the plane.

[skins fan1010]

After watching the Referees botch that 2 point conversion call at the end of the Skins - Bucs game, I've come up with an idea that I believe may help get these types of calls right in the future...

...

What do you guys think?

I get the games in HD on Directv and I have Tivo. After reading everything in the Stadium Forum over the past three days, I went back to review that play last night. I can say with absolute certainty that they had enough visual evidence to overturn that call.

They had two angles that taken together gave that evidence. The first angle was from the back corner of the end zone; it showed the location of the ball in Alstott's arms. That angle clearly showed that Alstott's elbow was ahead of the ball and the ball was clearly visible. Unfortunately, when Alstott went down, his elbow disappeared from view from that angle behind a Buc's player on the ground. However, the second angle was from the back of the end zone, and it clearly showed his elbow hitting the ground short of the goal line, although it was difficult to see the ball from that angle.

So, when you take the two angles together, you know Alstott's elbow is ahead of the ball and that his elbow hits the turf short of the goal line. It was indisputable. I cannot be convinced otherwise. I think with all of the HD cameras at the games, there are already enough to get a call right. You just need a replay ref with balls.

I will admit to you that I am biased and that I was extremely angry after they didn't overturn it after I heard Aikman say Alstott didn't get in. I was so upset that I couldn't look at the Tivo of the game until last night. Between then and now, I thought that although there was some evidence that he didn't make it, it was not enough to overturn it. Now, I know that's not true.

Now, I understand better what Gibbs said he saw. When reporters questioned if Gibbs saw more than what the TV audience saw--if he was turning in different film to the league for review--the reporters were implying that the evidence that the TV audience saw was not enough to overturn it. Gibbs position was (in so many words): "What the hell are you looking at if you didn't see it?"

The reporters were wrong.

[enzof1]

I tried to make this as clear as I could, but I think some are still having trouble seeing what I'm suggesting in my first post.

Basically, I 'm suggesting that some goal line cameras need to be raised up above field or ground level. Like at the top of the stadium, or up as high as the Press Boxes and Coaches Boxes are, but right over the goal lines.

And if this technology would've been used last Sunday, I believe the Redskins would have officially won that game 35 - 34, as there would have been sufficient conclusive evidence to overturn a bum call.

They showed a replayed of the 2 pt conversion from above & it clearly showed that his elbow hit the grown before the ball crossed the line. There was conclusive evidence to overturn the call.

[HaVoC]

Why not just put them camera's in the ground shooting up?

[RedzoneHunter]

However, the second angle was from the back of the end zone, and it clearly showed his elbow hitting the ground short of the goal line, although it was difficult to see the ball from that angle.

This is why there needs to be a camera on the goal line, but higher up to see over the players that were blocking the side judge's view, and the ground level camera view as well.

[worm]

I say we put an explosive in the ball with the Goal line as a trigger and then when they cross the Goal line.. .... Well you get the idea... :laugh: :laugh:

Actually, if they still can't get it right with replay, I say dump the whole system.