Another war video

[webnarc]

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10907.htm

This one is a little different from most that we've seen. This one deals with Fallujah towards the end of 2004. It's a war video so there are some disturbing sense.

My favourite line in it is "Saddam was a broken back dictator who represented no threat to anyone".

My least favourite part addressed the use of MK 77, and seeing the impact that this chemical has on human's. There are a lot of melted faces and fully clothed skeletons.

War sucks. It brings out the worst of human beings.

[redman]

War sucks. It brings out the worst of human beings.

Including, evidently, the desire to propagandize by dubbing an "interviewer's" voice into a video of a soldier discussing the battle.

War is awful. The video dwells on that without ever asking whether it was necessary or "worth it". I'm sure that the filmmaker's answer to those questions would always be "no", which makes me question his moral makeup.

[webnarc]

Including, evidently, the desire to propagandize by dubbing an "interviewer's" voice into a video of a soldier discussing the battle.

War is awful. The video dwells on that without ever asking whether it was necessary or "worth it". I'm sure that the filmmaker's answer to those questions would always be "no", which makes me question his moral makeup.

Yeah, everyone is trying to tell the story, but the part with the White Phosphorus seemed really unnecessary, along with the comments for the service man that "we were waiting for the outcome of the election before we started the offensive".

Watch it with the volume turned down, it will remove a lot of the bias.

[Prosperity]

I am glad all these dead children will enjoy a democratic and free Iraq, oh wait I forgot about the whole being dead part.

[redman]

I am glad all these dead children will enjoy a democratic and free Iraq, oh wait I forgot about the whole being dead part.

Yup. WWII was pretty useless for the 7-8M Jews who were exterminated too, not to mention the 20M Russians who were killed by the fighting and the people who died in the occupied countries. I guess it wasn't worth it.

[redman]

To give you more insight into what that website is about, here's an article they're hosting that reports on suspicion that British Commandos are planting bombs in Iraq.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10343.htm

[Prosperity]

Yup. WWII was pretty useless for the 7-8M Jews who were exterminated too, not to mention the 20M Russians who were killed by the fighting and the people who died in the occupied countries. I guess it wasn't worth it.

Typical conservative response. I was referring to the Iraq war you know "operation Iraqi Freedom", not WWII. Try and post RELEVANT material please.

[redman]

Typical conservative response. I was referring to the Iraq war you know "operation Iraqi Freedom", not WWII. Try and post RELEVANT material please.

And I was illustrating how stupid your comment was by analogy. Try to be intelligent please.

[webnarc]

To give you more insight into what that website is about, here's an article they're hosting that reports on suspicion that British Commandos are planting bombs in Iraq.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10343.htm

I appreciate the attempt at deflect and discredit, but I posted the link to the video.

Are you saying that the use of MK77 and White Phosphorus is appropriate because the video is hosted on that website?

[redman]

I appreciate the attempt at deflect and discredit, but I posted the link to the video.

Are you saying that the use of MK77 and White Phosphorus is appropriate because the video is hosted on that website?

I'm saying that that website has a very distinct philosophical bias such that I'm not going to take anything/everything they report/say/claim/allege at face value.

[webnarc]

I'm saying that that website has a very distinct philosophical bias such that I'm not going to take anything/everything they report/say/claim/allege at face value.

The video is only hosted on the website. But I support you using your freedom in whatever way you deside .

[Prosperity]

And I was illustrating how stupid your comment was by analogy. Try to be intelligent please.

You might have been right, IF Iraq actually does turn into a democratic and free country. It might become democratic for a while but I doubt it will be free. In that scenario you could compare the worth to WW2 (ie the value of self defense, defense of innocense, and even the value of punishing "evil" behavior against the value of millions of lives lost due to starvation, disease, bombings...) However, you are assuming the best case scenarion for Iraq. I am assuming the most realistic scenario (not much will change except the names of the rulers and that they will wear beards and turbans). Now all that aside who would it be worth to? To the dead it would be worth nothing, to me it would be worth a lot, but so do the lives of those lost, I don't know how much it is worth to you ("my party was right and I am not a complete moron for supporting them" or "a stable Iraqi puppet government can provide cheap oil and a base of operation" or the least likely one: "Iraqis are happier, the ones that aren't dead")

Your analogy failed, but I appreciate the personal insults, keep them coming

[Prosperity]

I'm saying that that website has a very distinct philosophical bias such that I'm not going to take anything/everything they report/say/claim/allege at face value.

If the video is the website's own then you have a slight point, you should take it with a grain of salt and investigate the matter further. If it isn't then you don't have a point and it was a cheap attempt at deflecting the issue like Webnarc said.

[redman]

You might have been right, IF Iraq actually does turn into a democratic and free country. It might become democratic for a while but I doubt it will be free. In that scenario you could compare the worth to WW2 (ie the value of self defense, defense of innocense, and even the value of punishing "evil" behavior against the value of millions of lives lost due to starvation, disease, bombings...) However, you are assuming the best case scenarion for Iraq. I am assuming the most realistic scenario (not much will change except the names of the rulers and that they will wear beards and turbans). Now all that aside who would it be worth to? To the dead it would be worth nothing, to me it would be worth a lot, but so do the lives of those lost, I don't know how much it is worth to you ("my party was right and I am not a complete moron for supporting them" or "a stable Iraqi puppet government can provide cheap oil and a base of operation" or the least likely one: "Iraqis are happier, the ones that aren't dead")

Your analogy failed, but I appreciate the personal insults, keep them coming

And your original post didn't have a personal insult ("Try and post RELEVANT material please.")? Spare me your righteous indignation, Liberty, because it's hypocritical to the point of being comical. You called me out and I served it right back to you. Don't cry now about personal insults.

There is no downside to a democratic Iraq IMHO, as long as it remains democratic. We're foolish if we belive that an Iraqi democracy will mirror ours - it won't and can't because if we simply installed our Constitution there it would fail. In order for it to have a chance, it needs to be constructed by Iraqis. Over time, democracy spawns individual freedoms. That's the natural order of things. That's the seed I want planted in Iraq, which is the veritable cross-roads of the Middle East. That's a long term goal, and one which we probably in our lifetimes will not be able to see its full benefits; we could see its failure very quickly however.

My concern is that the democracy will not be able to protect itself from tyrants, and will suffer a coup that will allow it to revert to being a dictatorship or puppet of a neighbor (probably Iran). Given the propensity for the Shia to allow or even encourage meddling from the Iranian Shia leadership, this is a very grave concern. It's also a concern insofar as Sunni Baathists (likely aided by Syria's Baathist regime) continue to try to violently exert their will on the country.

So no, I'm not one of those who simply kowtow's to the almighty Bush, etc. I think he's mishandled many things about this. But I do think that the effort to create a democratic Iraq is very worthwhile.

[Thiebear]

You might have been right, IF Iraq actually does turn into a democratic and free country. It might become democratic for a while but I doubt it will be free. In that scenario you could compare the worth to WW2 (ie the value of self defense, defense of innocense, and even the value of punishing "evil" behavior against the value of millions of lives lost due to starvation, disease, bombings...) However, you are assuming the best case scenarion for Iraq. I am assuming the most realistic scenario (not much will change except the names of the rulers and that they will wear beards and turbans). Now all that aside who would it be worth to? To the dead it would be worth nothing, to me it would be worth a lot, but so do the lives of those lost, I don't know how much it is worth to you ("my party was right and I am not a complete moron for supporting them" or "a stable Iraqi puppet government can provide cheap oil and a base of operation" or the least likely one: "Iraqis are happier, the ones that aren't dead")

Your analogy failed, but I appreciate the personal insults, keep them coming

Reason 249 why a name change is needed...

If you want to see why: Click the 2nd link in the signature and spend 4 hours reading whats going on. It will make you feel worse, but you'll understand why...

[Prosperity]

Reason #265,965 why Thiebear needs to stop posting and start thinking. For the last f'n time look up the definition of the word and then explain why my post contradicts it. These gay drive by posts are a waste of time for both of us.

Damn simpletons

[redman]

Reason #265,965 why Thiebear needs to stop posting and start thinking. For the last f'n time look up the definition of the word and then explain why my post contradicts it. These gay drive by posts are a waste of time for both of us.

Damn simpletons

Personal insults. Keep 'em coming. :laugh:

Main Entry: hu·bris

Pronunciation: 'hyü-br&s

Function: noun

Etymology: Greek hybris

: exaggerated pride or self-confidence

- hu·bris·tic /hyü-'bris-tik/ adjective

[Prosperity]

Personal insults. Keep 'em coming. :laugh:

If I initiated the attack then you would have a point, but neither is true. His post had no point other than to insult me. I proved he was wrong, and I have done so countless times before, but he refuses to learn. You did not prove I was wrong, so calling my post and me stupid were insults, while my post was just an honest observation and evaluation.

[airborneskins]

Alright, I spent the last 28 mins or so watching this video. THere is so much wrong with it tht it is not funny. I will comment on a few things, but I cannot comment on all of it.

First off, the accusations that we used Napalm in the battle at the airport are completely wrong, we did use white phosphorous, but that is not nearly as dangerous as napalm.

On the shooting in the mosque, (that I am sure that no doubt everyone has seen), think of it this way, if you were going into a place that the previous night, you were in a gunfight at, and you think taht everyone is dead, then someone moves, and you do not know if they still have ammo in thier weapon, I am sorry , but I would fire too. No doubt that these Marines were battle fatigued, but a few hours earlier, this guy was trying to kill you, Do you take the chance that he may succeed? Sorry, call me an idiot, but I want to get home to my family, so I would have shot him as well.

At about the 7:30 mark (approx) they were doing an interview with a lady. The interpreter finishes interpreting before the lady is done speaking.. Ding Ding Ding, Hello, Maybe he was saying what he wanted to say in order to get the point accross. Now I am no linguist, but I am interested to know what the ady was really saying..(maybe there is someone on this board that may be able to help me)

At one point in the video, they are acusing the US soldiers of firing at the people holding up the white flags. Well what he neglected to inform us on , is that we had intel that this was a tactic that was used to get close to the soldiers and set off a suicide bomb. Now, in the video taht they showed, the guys did not get shot, just simply shot at, in order to stop them from advancing. Once again the guy failed to tell the whole story.

I found it quite amusing that this guy that did the report used photos and video of torture victims that we saw (aww say about, 12-16 months before this allegedly happened) as something that he shot. These videos and pictures were used to illustrate what Saddam did to his people that did not like him. But once again this guy failed to tell the whole story and used the video as his own.

When he was interviewing the Marines ( I think) and they were telling the story about Kalice (sp), where the car was rushing at them trying to escape the gunfight. Well , Hell yeah, I would have shot them up too, you never know what they may have in the car, and if it speeding at me, I'm sorry, call me crazy, but I will light it up too. You see what some people don't understand, we are trained to react that way. And they are trained to kill Americans. Now, that car may have had innocent people speeding at them to get away from the fight, but I for 1 would not be willing to get blown up if I were wrong.

Lastly, we all know that War is an ugly thing. There is nothing pretty about it. But until you are on the front lines and you have to make on the spot decisions of you or them, I don't care what you say, You would choose (kill) them in a heart beat. There are innocent casualties in combat situations. No doubt there were innocent lives lost in Fallujah. But being a veteran of fire fights in Fallujah, I can tell you that that place was a hornets nest for terrorists. Do not forget the Civilian contractors that where hung from the bridge over the Euphrates after they were drug through the streets of Fallujah being spit on by the citizens.

I just wanted to put my 2 cents in on this video to hopefully shed some light on certain issues that came to mind while I was watching it.

HTTR!!!

[Tarhog]

I've said it 3 times in the last 2 days. If you guys can't discuss without the insults, you won't discuss.