Clinton launches withering attack on Bush on Iraq, Katrina, budget

[chomerics]

Sorry Chom but T Blairs comments were on CSpan3 and the local PBS when he said he couldn't see signing the Kyoto treaty when it wouldnt be economically beneficial to England and how India, China and russia wouldnt sign it.

What does Kyoto have to do with this discussion?

[NavyDave]

My original comment was that the meeting clinton was at was dealing also with global warming but that issue was killed when Tony Blair came out and let it be known that he was not going to sign off on supporting the kyoto treaty.

As far as Clinton what is new?

All he does is look at trying to capitalize on what he thinks are bad issues for the president and spew the same nonsense with no comments on what he would do better except of course raise taxes.

Exactly what great economic and military actions did he do during his 8 years besides trying to force my military to enlist openly gay people which led to dont ask dont tell or have his arm twisted into signing the welfare reform act?

Well he could claim that he signed NAFTA but at the same time he did help advance the missle technology of China and in some way north korea.

[Sarge]

Sarge, you should look up what Kennedy did in the 80's for the military and the soldiers. Kennedy has always been pro-soldier and anti-complex, that is my position as well. Look at who sponsered the bills which gave soldiers the benifits they now have, and I think you may be suprised, a lot of what you have going for you right now is because of Kennedy.

I can't wait to hear your reshonse with a bunch of laughing emoticons, but do the homework and look up the bills. I seem to remember him doing a number of things for the soldiers while my father was in the Air Force in the 80's.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to show that to me

[BlueTalon]

I remember something he did in the 80's. We used to get paid on the 15th and 30th of the month. Now we get paid on the 1st and 15th. Any idea why? Because Congress decided it could save a whole bunch of money on their budget by pushing a whole military payday into the next fiscal year. Never mind that it doesn't distribute the pay as equally through the month, never mind that it causes more hardships for military families. Thank you very much, Democrat-controlled Congress.

[Mad Mike]

Your brain clutch is slipping. I tried to stay out of these political threads because quite frankly they make me think that most of you are selectively ignorant at the times that fits best for you, and validates your arguements. Hands down Clinton was a better president, and in my opinion has earned the right to say what he feels if it's in Bush's II favaor or not. I know it's a fact that under Clinton the military shrunk, but dont you people feel there were midigating issues for it's decline. The internet was booming, jobs were available, Russia had lost to Osama bin Laden and his U.S. provided stinger missles, and there wasn't a major arch international criminal to be found anywhere. So why would a guy or woman that wants to distinguish themselves and make a living choose the military to do so?

I keep trying to understand why people think that Clinton shrunk the military. Couldn't it be that he managed the situation properly. Look under CLinton we had more armed conflicts than any other president, and sent more troops into foreign conflicts than any president in history. We lost Somalia, but we did alright in Korsovo and Bosnia. But we didn't have any wars, because quite frankly there was no reason for it.

Clinton left the country in good shape. He warned Bush about Al Qeida because of the USS Coles attack. But like most things Bush was like "ah I know what I'm doing", next thing we have is 9-11. Come to think of it the whole reason we lost in Somalia is we went against an establish power base, favored by the majority (I belive). He led them to beleive that the US was threat to their way of life....sound fimiliar. Bush was the guy that appointed his "friend" the head of FEMA, not Clinton. Bush was the one that landed on the Aircraft carrier with the slogan Mission Accomplished, Bush was the one that said Hussien was a immediate threat. Bush is the one that went to battle and is loosing the war. It's Bush, yes it's all Bush. I'm a proprietor of my own business. If it fails there are reasons it did, but I'm ultimately held responsible. Maybe I can try one these Bush tactics and see how it work with my creditors.

Somones brain clutch is slipping all right... YOURS.

1) we did not supply stingers to UBL. Even then he wanted no help from the US. Study Afganistan and you will find that it has always been split by factions and bin Ladens faction had nothing to do with the US and saw funded by UBL himself. This is in part how he became a hero over there.

2) The United States was attacked 8 TIMES during Clintons 8 years in office. I'm sorry but his responsibility goes FAR beyond telling Bush that bin Laden was a threat. That's why the 9/11 commission said...

"We must then ask when the U.S. government had reasonable opportunities to mobilize the country for major action against al Qaeda and its Afghan sanctuary. The main opportunities came after the new information the U.S. government received in 1996–1997, after the embassy bombings of August 1998, after the discoveries of the Jordanian and Ressam plots in late 1999, and after the attack on the USS Cole in October 2000."

You will note that every one of those times was under Clinton. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Yeah. Clinton was a real hero.

3) we lost in Somalia because Clinton's leadership was a joke. He ordered our soldiers into the country to feed the people under UN control. THEN told them to capture ADID which turned it into a real war after denying them the armor they requested and we got the whole Black Hawk Down incident and american soldiers dragged through the streets. Two weeks later Clinton cut a deal with Adid and they were shaking hands. Which is why bin Laden said...

"But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order- you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge, but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. It was a pleasure for the "heart" of every Muslim and a remedy to the "chests" of believing nations to see you defeated in the three Islamic cities of Beirut, Aden and Mogadishu."

Ignorence like yours just ticks me off.

[chomerics]

Somones brain clutch is slipping all right... YOURS.

1) we did not supply stingers to UBL. Even then he wanted no help from the US. Study Afganistan and you will find that it has always been split by factions and bin Ladens faction had nothing to do with the US and saw funded by UBL himself. This is in part how he became a hero over there.

Mike, follow the logic here, and I will type slow for you.

1. We gave money, guns and stinger missles to the Mujahadeen.

2. Osama Bin Laden was part of the Mujahadeen

3. We trained Muj how to use the equipment.

4. Osama Bin Laden was part of the Mujahadeen

5. Osama Bin Laden did not have his own "faction", he in fact was trained by us, and he was given weapons, not directly from us, but through the outfit that we were supplying.

You need to read Ghost Wars, because it explicitly explains the entire Bin Laden connection with the CIA, and how he went from a Muj freedom fighter to a terrorist.

2) The United States was attacked 8 TIMES during Clintons 8 years in office. I'm sorry but his responsibility goes FAR beyond telling Bush that bin Laden was a threat. That's why the 9/11 commission said...

"We must then ask when the U.S. government had reasonable opportunities to mobilize the country for major action against al Qaeda and its Afghan sanctuary. The main opportunities came after the new information the U.S. government received in 1996–1997, after the embassy bombings of August 1998, after the discoveries of the Jordanian and Ressam plots in late 1999, and after the attack on the USS Cole in October 2000."

Well Mike, Clinton had less then 20 days to pay back for the Cole. He also did not want to hand over a war to a new administration. What is Bush's excuse for doing absolutely nothing about the Cole? What is his excuse for sitting on the ground for 9 months and doing absolutely nothing about this threat the Clinton should have taken out? Oh yea, I remember what his response was, I'm on vacation. Aug. 6th PDB, "Bin Laden Determined to Attack in the US", and Bush stays on vacation for yet ANOTHER 20 days :doh:

Still haven't found a way to exhonerate Bush of this one yet huh :doh:

You will note that every one of those times was under Clinton. EVERY SINGLE ONE. Yeah. Clinton was a real hero.

Yet, the biggest one, the one where we were attacked on US soil fell under Bush. . . Oops, sorry, my bad, must have been Clinton's fault Bush was sleeping at the wheel too huh.

3) we lost in Somalia because Clinton's leadership was a joke. He ordered our soldiers into the country to feed the people under UN control. THEN told them to capture ADID which turned it into a real war after denying them the armor they requested and we got the whole Black Hawk Down incident and american soldiers dragged through the streets. Two weeks later Clinton cut a deal with Adid and they were shaking hands. Which is why bin Laden said...

Read up on Somalia as well, read about what happened in the white house, who's decisions it was to go in, and what the consequenses were.

Ignorence like yours just ticks me off.

No Mike, the only thing that ticks you off is when you look foolish arguing with somebody who actually calls you on your propaganda and BS. I see your sig is still the same, are you STILL trying to say Saddam hussen was behind 9-11, or have you flip-flopped on that one :doh:

[chomerics]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I'm sorry, but you're gonna have to show that to me

I'm looking for the resources, but Thomas only goes back to the 89-90 session (100th senate). I have e-mailed kennedy's office for a history of his sponsership on all military bills since he entered the senate in 62'.

Voted YES on adopting the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty.

Adoption of the Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty would ban nuclear weapons testing six months after ratification by the 44 nations that have nuclear power plants or nucelar research reactors.

Status: Resolution of Ratification Rejected Y)48; N)51; P)1

Reference: Comprehensive Nuclear Test Ban Treaty; Bill Treaty Document #105-28 ; vote number 1999-325 on Oct 13, 1999

Voted YES on allowing another round of military base closures.

Vote on an amendment to allow one round of military base closures beginning in 2001 as determined by an independent panel.

Bill S.1059 ; vote number 1999-147 on May 26, 1999

Voted NO on cutting nuclear weapons below START levels.

The Kerrey (D-NE) amdt would strike bill language requiring that U.S. strategic nuclear forces remain at START I levels through the end of fiscal 2000 unless Russia ratified START II.

Status: Motion to Table Agreed to Y)56; N)44

Reference: Motion to table Kerrey Amdt #395; Bill S. 1059 ; vote number 1999-149 on May 26, 1999

Voted YES on deploying National Missile Defense ASAP.

Vote that the policy of the US is to deploy a National Missile Defense system capable of defending against limited ballistic missile attack as soon as it is technologically possible, and to seek continued negotiated reductions in Russian nuclear forces.

Bill S 257 ; vote number 1999-51 on Mar 17, 1999

Voted YES on military pay raise of 4.8%.

Vote to pass a bill to authorize a military pay raise of 4.8% in 2000 and annual pay increases through 2006 of 0.5% above the inflation rate. The bill would also provide additional incentives to certain enlisted personnel who remain on active duty.

Bill S.4 ; vote number 1999-26 on Feb 24, 1999

Voted NO on deploying missile defense as soon as possible.

Vote to limit further debate and proceed to a bill that would require the U.S. to deploy as soon as possible an effective National Missile Defense system capable of defending against a limited ballistic missile attack.

Bill S 1873 ; vote number 1998-262 on Sep 9, 1998

Voted NO on prohibiting same-sex basic training.

Byrd Amdt (D-WV) that would prohibit same-sex military barracks and basic training.

Status: Amdt Rejected Y)39; N)53; NV)8

Reference: Byrd Amdt #3011; Bill S. 2057 ; vote number 1998-180 on Jun 25, 1998

Voted YES on favoring 36 vetoed military projects.

Overturning line-item vetoes of 36 military projects vetoed by President Clinton.

Status: Bill Passed Y)69; N)30; NV)1

Reference: Line Item Veto Cancellation bill; Bill S. 1292 ; vote number 1997-287 on Oct 30, 1997

Voted YES on banning chemical weapons.

Approval of the chemical weapons ban.

Status: Resolution of Ratification Agreed to Y)74; N)26

Reference: Resolution of ratification of the Chemical (Comprehensive) Weapons (Convention) Ban; Bill S. Res. 75 ; vote number 1997-51 on Apr 24, 1997

Voted NO on considering deploying NMD, and amending ABM Treaty.

Vote to consider establishing a policy requiring the deployment of a national missile defense system by the end of 2003. The bill would also urge discussions with Russia to amend the ABM Treaty to allow deployment of the system.

Bill S 1635 ; vote number 1996-157 on Jun 4, 1996

Voted NO on 1996 Defense Appropriations.

Approval of the 1996 Defense Appropriations bill.

Status: Bill Passed Y)62; N)35; NV)3

Reference: Defense Approps Bill FY 96; Bill S. 1087 ; vote number 1995-397 on Sep 5, 1995

Small business in developing homeland security technologies.

Kennedy sponsored a resolution on small businesses

Expresses the sense of the Senate that: (1) small business participation is vital to U.S. defense and should play an active role in assisting the military, Federal intelligence and law enforcement agencies, and State and local police to combat terrorism through the design and development of innovative products; and (2) Federal, State, and local governments should aggressively seek out and purchase innovative technologies and services from, and promote research opportunities for, American small businesses to help in homeland defense and the fight against terrorism. Passed/agreed to in Senate.

Source: Resolution sponsored by 26 Senators 02-SR264 on May 8, 2002

This is the only sponsered bill in this years senate so far, it was to add an additional $10mil to vets for PTSD

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00242

Again, he is all for the soldiers, but not for the complex, there is a big difference IMO.

[Mad Mike]

Mike, follow the logic here, and I will type slow for you.

1. We gave money, guns and stinger missles to the Mujahadeen.

2. Osama Bin Laden was part of the Mujahadeen

3. We trained Muj how to use the equipment.

4. Osama Bin Laden was part of the Mujahadeen

5. Osama Bin Laden did not have his own "faction", he in fact was trained by us, and he was given weapons, not directly from us, but through the outfit that we were supplying.

You need to read Ghost Wars, because it explicitly explains the entire Bin Laden connection with the CIA, and how he went from a Muj freedom fighter to a terrorist.

Well Mike, Clinton had less then 20 days to pay back for the Cole. He also did not want to hand over a war to a new administration. What is Bush's excuse for doing absolutely nothing about the Cole? What is his excuse for sitting on the ground for 9 months and doing absolutely nothing about this threat the Clinton should have taken out? Oh yea, I remember what his response was, I'm on vacation. Aug. 6th PDB, "Bin Laden Determined to Attack in the US", and Bush stays on vacation for yet ANOTHER 20 days :doh:

Still haven't found a way to exhonerate Bush of this one yet huh :doh:

Yet, the biggest one, the one where we were attacked on US soil fell under Bush. . . Oops, sorry, my bad, must have been Clinton's fault Bush was sleeping at the wheel too huh.

Read up on Somalia as well, read about what happened in the white house, who's decisions it was to go in, and what the consequenses were.

No Mike, the only thing that ticks you off is when you look foolish arguing with somebody who actually calls you on your propaganda and BS. I see your sig is still the same, are you STILL trying to say Saddam hussen was behind 9-11, or have you flip-flopped on that one :doh:

Thanks for the silly response.

1) The Mujahadeen is a broad name given to to anyone fighting the Russians. Try reading up on the subject and you will find that Afghanistan is a land of fiercely independant tribes. You so called argument is a joke on the level of a childs... "did so" and you are absolutely WRONG. But I'm not playing that game. You made the claim. You prove it.

2) Re Clinton... More excuses. what about the other 7 attacks? :doh:

3) Somolia? Dude I've done the research. Plus Iv'e done a two hour interview with someone who was there. But please, by all means, If you are going to imply something BACK IT UP. Because Clinton was the president and Clinton called the shots. Those are the facts and all of your childish non-arguments can change it.

PS. My sig is still the same because the fact remains the same. Saddam had that picture painted. You tell me.. What was HE trying to say?

[The Bounty Hunter #21]

this crap will never end......