Ramseys completed 63% of his passes against the Ravens

[boobiemiles]

I thought one of the biggest factors lost in this scrimmage is Ramsey's completion percentage. The medai has said that he not accurate. But aginst the best secondary in the NFL IMO he completed over 60% of his throws. Am I the only one that thinks that's a good stat? By the way what did Moss do? Did he burn anybody. What did the recivers do as a whole? I know they didn't catch the ball. Was it because of the QB, or they couldn't get open?

[jwsleep]

Good stat. I think the WRs dropped a few, the QBs missed a few. I think Santana had a nice sideline catch that was ruled out of bounds.

[SkinsLover]

Antonio Brown caught a deep ball in the corner of the end zone if I remember right, but he was ruled just out of bounds.

[authentic]

Santana Moss burned the hell out of Ed Reed on a 50 yard bomb from Ramsey (caught with one hand).. unfortunately, it was a dead play.. if it was a live play it may have been the offensive play of the day.

[Suzanne4sure]

The voice of reason..finally. Thanks for that stat. I thought folks were being overly harsh about everything.

[Clinton Portis]

Yeah! Ramsey's the man!

Thanks for that stat, made my morning. :notworthy

[KDawg]

Originally posted by SkinsLover

Antonio Brown caught a deep ball in the corner of the end zone if I remember right, but he was ruled just out of bounds.

That was Jamin Elliot.

The receivers looked like pure crap in the scrimmage.

Standouts were Elliot, F-16 (Antonio Brown), and Moss. Moss caught a couple screens and a couple nice sideline catches... Looked good, but didn't go deep on a fly... His nice sideline catch looked like a post flag, but Ramsey got sacked.

Patten (Who, btw, has been phenominal at camp) dropped a couple easy ones... DMac was silent... Dyson caught a TD in the 7 on 7's, but other than that, nothing... Jacobs got hurt... Jimmy Farris did nothing. Steven Harris did nothing... and I didn't even see Rich Parsons out on the field...

[GoDannyBoy]

We are probably not going to the Super Bowl this year. but I don't buy all the crap being said about us. The Skins will play hard and be in the game until the end. Lets hope we win a few more of those than we did last year.

[alton66]

Thank you for finally reporting some positives from yesterday scrimmage. Some folks are totally freaking out over a scrimmage. A Scrimmage! These are use as an evaluation tool and to weed out players who won’t make the team. And it’s not just some of the folks here, the Media as well. :doh:

[Om]

The only negative I would even begin to consider at this point are the reports that Pat looked a little indecisive out there early on. That's the one area I'd hoped he would show the most progress in from jump, and I thought yesterday would have been a nice place to start seeing it. If for no other reason than his confidence, and everyone else's confidence IN him.

But to worry TOO much about it at this point is silly. The Ravens are really, really good on D. They were playing in front of 35K in their backyard, and clearly fired up as hell. It was Pat's first crack against an unfamiliar D with this new stable of receivers. I THINK the Ravens have been in camp perhaps a week longer than the Skins (not sure about that, however). And you just know he was so focused and intent on NOT making mistakes that he was not just cutting it loose.

Excuses? I suppose some will think so. But to me, just the context.

Here's the thing to remember:

The 2005 Redskins will NOT win based on the strengths of any one player, not even their quarterback. If this team wins, it will be because Gibbs and Williams and Co. will have built a TEAM---offense, defense, special teams, chemistry, schemes, etc.---that becomes more than the sum of its individual parts. We're not Philly---we're not going to rely on Patrick to "make plays" on his own to win games. He, and the team, are going to fail or succeed based on the whole TEAM playing as one.

That's why Gibbs' teams NEVER look good in scrimmages or preseason games. That goes back to his first go around here. The Steelers used to routinely beat the hell out of us up in Latrobe in these early "scrimmages," and we would look awful and outmatched and people would fret. And it's why we'd routinely lose and look confused and overmatched in preseason games ... and people would fret more.

But somehow, mysteriously, every year, once the regular season rolled around, the Redskins would suddenly look crisper, more organized and more together than the other guys ... and would find ways to win games, week after week after week.

So until this team---and Ramsey in particular---starts looking tight, disorganized or overmatched in REAL games, when the full force of Gibbs and Williams wizardry are brought to bear, I refuse to read anything meaningful into their performances. I remember my history and have learned from it.

Could Pat have looked better? Of course. Will he, when it counts?

Stay tuned.

[redskin-one]

Om - I completely agree with your analysis.

[redman]

Originally posted by Om

Here's the thing to remember:

The 2005 Redskins will NOT win based on the strengths of any one player, not even their quarterback. If this team wins, it will be because Gibbs and Williams and Co. will have built a TEAM---offense, defense, special teams, chemistry, schemes, etc.---that becomes more than the sum of its individual parts. We're not Philly---we're not going to rely on Patrick to "make plays" on his own to win games. He, and the team, are going to fail or succeed based on the whole TEAM playing as one.

This is an important point, because it's key to understanding Gibbs' philosophy. In fact, I'll even go farther. We won't win based upon any three players' performances.

There were two Gibbs teams that most people think were the best: the 1983 team (which lost to the Raiders in SB XVII), and the 1991 team which beat the Bills in the Super Bowl. If you look at those two teams, the most talked about thing for each of them was their offensive explosion - they're both among the highest scoring teams in history. Both Theisman and Rypien had career years. But you never hear anyone talk about how the QB's carried those teams, and clearly neither one of those guys is a Hall of Fame caliber QB.

Some will think this comment is sacrilege too, but in neither case did we have an outstanding or even particularly good RB. Riggins had 24 TD's in 1983, but averaged only 3.6 ypc. Byner, while an admirable and workmanlike RB and teammate, rushed for over 1000 yards but averaged only 3.8 ypc, and he gave up his goalline duties to Gerald Riggs.

These are just examples, and I could find more. In each case, though, the team won as a team. The quality of Joe Gibbs teams, if he has anything to say about the matter, are worth far more than the sum of their parts.

[Fifty Gut]

I heard Patten was running great routes and kept getting open, so no complaints about him.

[Gamebreaker]

I didn't think Patten was open very much. I recall one play in 7-on-7, where he got open on a flag route, Ramsey fired the ball and he got shook by the safety coming in pursuit and let it bounce off his left shoulder pad. That was the only time I saw him open. Moss and Brown were open consistently on short routes and were getting good YAC, especially Brown. Dyson dropped a big pass in 11-on-11, that would've been our longest play all day but he let it bounce right off his fingers. I think Brunell may be have been QB at the time.

[KingTaylor22]

thanks for the stat.. makes me fill a little bit better.

[jwsleep]

Great posts, Om and redman. I completely agree with your historical analysis, and especially the issues about team over individuals in Gibbs system (and Williams too, given last year).

Remember, Gibbs claim to fame is not just that he won 3 SBs--it's that he did it with 3 different QBs. Why does that matter? Well, you can ride an Elway or a Favre into the promised land, but it takes coaching to do it with Theisman, Williams, and Rypien. That alone is the biggest source of my optimism about the skins.

As for trying not to read too much into the scrimmage--that's like asking the rain not to fall and the sun not to shine. We're skins fans--it's what we do!

[JRAB]

What worries me about Ramsey is that he should've started showing some signs that he's getting more proficient at reading defenses or a little better at just seeing the field.

He isn't.

And as far as Gibbs historically having teams that play horrible in the pre-season and then playing good in the regular season... we that might now be true or not true.

Things are different now and my bet is that Gibbs wants the team, at least offensively, to show some promising signs. I think he knows the offense needs some confidence and would love nothing better than to have a good showing in a scrimmage and shut the media up a bit.

He has a lot more to prove now than the last time he was coaching.

I might be wrong, but I think he now cares if the team looks like poo in the preseason, whereas he didn't used to.

I just think it's plain homeristic to sit and say, "It's ok that we looked terrible. Gibbs doesn't care if we look bad right now because it doesn't count. We're fine because it's early yet."

Yes that may be true. But it could just as easily be not true and we still have significant problems on offense.

As a matter of fact, the only evidence that we currently have points to us having mucho problems on offense.

What evidence do we have that "it's all going to be fine?" Just because we wish it so? Please.

We can make the excuse that all the starters weren't there, or that it is early, or whatever you want. But we've been doing that for over a decade now and it always ends up that the evidence was right. That all the excuses we made were just that. Excuses. Because when the games did start to count, we only continued to look just as bad as we did in the preseason... every year, dammit. I'm tired of it.

Every year... "it's ok... it's early yet." "It's ok, we'll move the ball when it counts." "It's ok, Patrick will read the defense in the regular season." "It's ok, we'll block when September rolls around."

And then we don't. Know why? Because if we could do it... we'd be doing it now.

If Ramsey could read defenses good, he would've done it last night when the defense was less disguised than it will be in the regular season.

If we didn't drop passes, we wouldn't have done so last night.

If we could pressure the QB we'd do it in preseason too.

But we can't and then we can't in the regular season too. Watch good teams. They're doing it in the preseason too. It's not just a wonder that they start playing well. They do it in training camp, in scrimmages, in preseason games and in the regular season. That's what good teams do.

Don't some of you get tired of every pre-season saying that because of this excuse or that excuse we played poorly? Tired of saying I'm not worried that we looked like crap because once in a preseason game in 1984 we looked bad?

We need to play well now, at least some of the time, in order to play well in the regular season.

I'm tired of all the excuses.

[mookie0720]

What worries me about Ramsey is that he should've started showing some signs that he's getting more proficient at reading defenses or a little better at just seeing the field.

This is what really bothers me.

Same as with Brunell last year, you knew he wasn't going anywhere because he was just as bad in week 8 as he was in week 1.

Same thing with Ramsey, he looks just as indecisve/slow making reads out there now as he did in his rookie year.

[Om]

JRAB,

No one has suggested "Gibbs doesn't care if we look bad right now because it doesn't count." Gibbs ALWAYS cares, and says so. It's the FANS that should know better, based on his history, than to freak out after one so-so scrimmage five days into training camp.

Gibbs genius has always been in his ability to get good people around him, find players who fit his system and personality, create an environment where those players can succeed by giving them superior preparation and schemes to run on Sunday, and being a master at adjusting on the fly.

COULD he have forgotten all those things? COULD his schemes and team-building skills have evaporated or deteriorated to the point he can't win any more? Of course. But there is not a shred of meaningful evidence at this point to suggest that's the case. Not even Patrick Ramsey looking indecisive in this first appearance as the 2005 starter in the circumstances already set out above.

The evidence we DO have is in the clear and trackable progress the team made throughout the course of the 2004 season. I trust you watched all the games, brother, and can see the vast difference between the team that lost to Cleveland and the one that beat Minnesota to close the year.

Which was the point in the first place. Judge them on REAL games, when what it is that makes Gibbs Gibbs has a chance to show through.

[The Bounty Hunter #21]

Lets hope that he can do that during the regular season

[flashback]

Its not Gibbs fault. He just doesn't have the players. And the ones he does have don't want to practice because of "flu-like symptoms" or "heat related problems".

This was just one scrimmage, and it came very early in training camp. But playing well is always better than playing poorly, no matter when or where or with whom.

That game vs. Minnesota was pretty impressive, but it was just one game, and Smoot, Pierce, Coles and Gardner are gone from that team. The glass half full fan in all of you will hope for all the "upgrades" to work out, but nothing's guaranteed. I'd suggest you pay a little less attention to what the 2004 Redskins accomplished and a little more attention to where the 2005 Redskins are right now. The WRs don't look great, the pass-blocking is not up to par and the QB looks pretty spotty. Better luck next weekend, guys.

[Walking Deadman]

I'm lookig forward to what Ramsey (Campbell in the preseason with Brunell) and the WR corp. can do, I like that Moss, Patten and Brown are real speedsters. Would love to see McCants, Dyson, Cooley and Royal in the Redzone. And see Jacobs and Thrash mixed in....these guys just are making me look forward to see what the passing game.

Obviously, we can't go wrong with Portis.....and I love how everything about him and the run game AREN'T being talked about.

I think Gibbs is going to sucker the Bears into thinking that they're going to be a pass-first team and then run Clinton down their throat.

[KevinMac]

A high completion % does little good when your YPA is in the 6 yard range. I don't know what it was yesterday, I'm just bringing up the point that there is no reason to get hyped because of a decent completion % unless it translates into yards & points.

Last year Ramsey hit 62.1%, but it didn't do us much good.

[jwsleep]

Kinda beating this one into the ground, aren't we?

But disregarding my own comment, It's not obvious to me that Gibbs doesn't have the players--look at what Williams (and Blache and the rest of the D coaches) did with what they had last year.

Sure, Ramsey is a question mark (we've all known this--it's the #1 thing everyone, Ramsey and Gibbs included say)--but my guess is that chemistry matters for this. He looks great sometimes. When? When he throws to Chris Cooley. WHy? Is it because Cooley is just BETTER than everyone else? No. It's becuase Ramsey knows what Cooley is going to do, has confidence when he throws there, and Cooley has confidence in Ramsey. When Patten and Moss get in that kind of groove with PR, my guess is he won;t look so indecisive--he'll have 3+ options per play, and he'll feel comforatble with each. But that takes time, and not just TC toss-arounds. Time in real game situations.

Yes, this is the "glass is half-full" interpretation. But it's not excuse making--it's just an argument about why things might still look "sluggish" and still they might get better.

[rdskn4eva]

It was a scrimage.