Scotland and/or Israel warned about London bombings?

[Baculus]

This is an article that I read while checking the various sites that I usually read. This was a rumor that I first heard yesterday when it was reported in AP article that Israeli Finance MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu received a warning. This information was later changed during the day to Netanyahu receiving the report after the attack.

Here is the content of the article:

July 7, 2005

Israel Warned United Kingdom About Possible Attacks

http://fairuse.1accesshost.com/news2/stratfor-london.html

Summary

There has been massive confusion over a denial made by the Israelis that the Scotland Yard had warned the Israeli Embassy in London of possible terrorist attacks “minutes before” the first bomb went off July 7. Israel warned London of the attacks a “couple of days ago,” but British authorities failed to respond accordingly to deter the attacks, according to an unconfirmed rumor circulating in intelligence circles. While Israel is keeping quiet for the time-being, British Prime Minister Tony Blair soon will be facing the heat for his failure to take action.

Analysis

The Associated Press reported July 7 that an anonymous source in the Israeli Foreign Ministry said Scotland Yard had warned the Israeli Embassy in London of possible terrorist attacks in the U.K. capital. The information reportedly was passed to the embassy minutes before the first bomb struck at 0851 London time. The Israeli Embassy promptly ordered Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to remain in his hotel on the morning of July 7. Netanyahu was scheduled to participate in an Israeli Investment Forum Conference at the Grand Eastern Hotel, located next to the Liverpool Street Tube station -- the first target in the series of bombings that hit London on July 7.

Several hours later, Israeli Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom officially denied reports that Scotland Yard passed any information to Israel regarding the bombings, and British police denied they had any advanced warning of the attacks. The British authorities similarly denied that any information exchange had occurred.

Contrary to original claims that Israel was warned “minutes before” the first attack, unconfirmed rumors in intelligence circles indicate that the Israeli government actually warned London of the attacks “a couple of days” previous. Israel has apparently given other warnings about possible attacks that turned out to be aborted operations. The British government did not want to disrupt the G-8 summit in Gleneagles, Scotland, or call off visits by foreign dignitaries to London, hoping this would be another false alarm.

The British government sat on this information for days and failed to respond. Though the Israeli government is playing along publicly, it may not stay quiet for long. This is sure to apply pressure on Blair very soon for his failure to deter this major terrorist attack.

For more breaking intelligence on this and other stories, please visit premium.stratfor.com.

Send questions or comments on this article to analysis@stratfor.com.

----------------------------------------------

Now, for most folks, this would seem luicrious and as unthinkable as the U.S. government being involved somehow with 9-11. I am not going to make this suggestion, or exploit this event for my own pet theories, especially considering that the bombings happened recently and there are stilll victims fighting for their lives in the hospital. Keep in mind, though, that the British government has actually been involved with IRA bombings over the last number of years. http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_mi5terror.html

If you think about it, this does help Blair and Bush. Both leaders had sagging numbers (Blair's approval rate was awful), we have scandals starting on both sides of the Pond (the Downing Street Memo is just a start), and a British and American population that are becoming disgruntled about the war. Now have an unknown Al Queda group that bombs the heart of London. What better way to refocus the population on the War on Terror?

If Al Queda did this, they're fools. Blair and Bush were already in trouble and facing the prospect of pulling out of the region. You'd have to wonder what's the benefit for these organizations?

[redman]

It's too early to rely upon rumors like this because that's all they are at this point.

[chiefhogskin48]

Cmon Bach, this is all hindsight rumour-mongering. Let's wait til the facts come out.

[Ghost of]

Again, you fall prey to the same thinking that dominates many of those who say "no Muslims could do this--must be the Jews or the American government."

ENOUGH.

[chomerics]

Originally posted by Baculus

Now, for most folks, this would seem luicrious and as unthinkable as the U.S. government being involved somehow with 9-11. I am not going to make this suggestion, or exploit this event for my own pet theories, especially considering that the bombings happened recently and there are stilll victims fighting for their lives in the hospital. Keep in mind, though, that the British government has actually been involved with IRA bombings over the last number of years. http://www.prisonplanet.com/archive_mi5terror.html

If you think about it, this does help Blair and Bush. Both leaders had sagging numbers (Blair's approval rate was awful), we have scandals starting on both sides of the Pond (the Downing Street Memo is just a start), and a British and American population that are becoming disgruntled about the war. Now have an unknown Al Queda group that bombs the heart of London. What better way to refocus the population on the War on Terror?

If Al Queda did this, they're fools. Blair and Bush were already in trouble and facing the prospect of pulling out of the region. You'd have to wonder what's the benefit for these organizations? [/b]

Bac,

I hate these guys as much as you do, and I think they are not only capeable of doing such a disastardly deeds, but also have the prerequesite lack of morals to do so, but I don't think it was them.

I think the terrorists are targetting our allies in order to isolate us in an us against the world mentality. If Bin Laden was really the mastermind everyone thinks he is, he would set us up. He would bomb a target using American terrorists and then use the evidence to accuse America of being a terrorist country.

Well, put it this way, if I was an outlaw, I'd try to garner up support of the rest of the world, there is no better way then to make your enemy look like the bad guy.

[Baculus]

So you know, when I posted this, it had nothing to do with such thoughts as "It must have been the Jews!" I don't buy into the Zionist conspiracy theories. After all, some early reports are that the Mossad, instead of carrying out the attack, may have tried to give warnings to Scotland Yard.

As mentioned, too early to tell anything until more information is forth coming. Still though, in spite of such tragic events, we still have to keep our ears open for information, even if it seems off the beaten path. We'll see how the investigation unfolds.

By the way, if a terrorist cell was involved, Bin Laden probably wasn't wasn't planning this attack. He's been marginalized and the organization now, if any, is probably operating from the bottom, upwards.

I do, though, feel that UK involvement, in particular "elite units" with past terrorism is worthy of note and study.

[Sarge]

Damn. One stinking day and the "Isreal secretly did it" nuts are out

[Baculus]

Damn. One stinking day and the "Isreal secretly did it" nuts are out

Actually, it's more like "the Israelis secretly tried to warn us" nuts are out. :-)

[redskins4life234]

Wow people really are anti-semetic, makes me sick. Why would Israel attack london, I mean come on.

[herrmag]

Originally posted by Baculus

Actually, it's more like "the Israelis secretly tried to warn us" nuts are out. :-)

Yeah, I'm not sure where he got that from......

But, I'm not calling you a nut, but do you honestly think for one second that an entire group of people from both the American and British governments would knowingly let this happen? I'm sorry, but I find that weak at best. If you want to take pop shots at either Blair or Bush, fine, but I don't think you can say they essentially let this happen. Uh-oh, I hear Kilmer coming :laugh:

Oh, and yes, you said you "weren't suggesting" that, and then laid it all out there.

[Baculus]

But, I'm not calling you a nut, but do you honestly think for one second that an entire group of people from both the American and British governments would knowingly let this happen?

Take the report as you will. The odd thing is, the article never suggested that the Israelis did it, but folks are immediately assumming it did, for some reason. It did not come across, to me, as anti-semetic. After all, it was taken from some intelligence-oriented organization's website. And this does not necessarily point to British involvement either, but it is rather odd, don't you think? Folks are too hung up on one thing or another without even responding with, "Yeah, if this happened, that is somewhat odd."

But, I'll never underestimate the ruthless of any government, including our own or the British government. History is replete with too many examples of why I am wary. After all, you think about it, in spite of the horrible nature of the attacks, both the Blair and Bush government actually benefit from this attack.

[stevenaa]

If you think about it, this does help Blair and Bush. Both leaders had sagging numbers (Blair's approval rate was awful), we have scandals starting on both sides of the Pond (the Downing Street Memo is just a start), and a British and American population that are becoming disgruntled about the war. Now have an unknown Al Queda group that bombs the heart of London. What better way to refocus the population on the War on Terror?

Can't we wait and let the dead be mourned before hatching politicaly motivated conspiracy theories that have no roots in reality. I am just amazed at this type of thinking. Let's not focus on the actual monsters that are to blame. Let's shift the focus to our own leaders to gain some type of political advantage. Sickening!!!!!!!

[dreamingwolf]

Im begining to understand how bac comes to his warped view of the world.

First I would like to direct you to the source of bac's link. This is not a news or intelligence information website, its a free hosting service.

Second I would like to direct your attention the nature of this web page, and how it deceptively makes you think its from Stratfor which bac bit hook, line and sinker.

Stratfor is hailed as the CIA of private industry, and has a reputation of being very accurate and its not free. It is possible that a user has copied and hosted this article himself and that the original is in the premium section. However, it seems to contridict with the public articles on stratfor.com home page in an article that says " The London bombings were clearly well planned and coordinated over a period of time and successfully evaded the normally very effective UK counterintelligence.". This seems to say the Brits didnt know it was comming. In bacs defense there is an article in the premium section entitled "Israel: Gag Order On London Bombings", however I was not able to read it.

Its very likely that someone has created this article to promote the same feelings that were intended when people blamed israel for not warning us about 9/11. They have obviously used the same format that stratfor uses, with the exceptions of that email link at the bottom. The articles on the home page of stratfor do not have this link at the bottom like the one bac provided.

I will over the weekend send an email to stratfor asking if it is their article that someone is pirating, or if this is a hoax. At this time I find it completely without merit and rather disgusting. That said, bacs initial assertion could be true, what I have issue with is relying or even giving any credence to information on the web that is just thrown up on a free hosting site especially when it has a hint of blaming the jews.

[herrmag]

Originally posted by dreamingwolf

a free hosting site especially when it has a hint of blaming the jews. [/b]

Why does everyone keep thinking this is blaming Israel? In fact, this is blaming the British if it's blaming anyone. At least that's my interpretation.

[Ghost of]

Originally posted by herrmag

Why does everyone keep thinking this is blaming Israel? In fact, this is blaming the British if it's blaming anyone. At least that's my interpretation.

Because of the inclusion of the Israeli embassy.

Earlier stories had erroneously reported the Israelis as having previous knowledge and not saying anything to the Brits.

Then it was the British authorities getting word and warning Israel's embassy.

Thing is, British intel has stopped a few incidents already--one GOT THROUGH. It happens.

We have stopped likely incidents in the US. One WILL get through. Especially if these people operate independently.

Because one has a vague warning about something doesn't mean anything can be done specifically or that you are INVOLVED in planning. That's just stupid.

And again, this all leads back to the same thinking that plenty of Arabs and others apply to the West where everything couldn't POSSIBLY be happening to the omnipotent(in their minds) US(or West) by surprise, they must have known. It all is about diverting blame from those ACTUALLY responsible and ignoring the flood of speeches, sermons, TV broadcasts, book sales, public rallies, internet forums and posts and words of those who believe in jihad(or whatever other cause.)

[twa]

"

If Al Queda did this, they're fools. Blair and Bush were already in trouble and facing the prospect of pulling out of the region. You'd have to wonder what's the benefit for these organizations?"

What benefit did they get from 9/11 or any other attack?

Your reasoning and willingness to easily accept these conspiracy theories is disturbing.

[Baculus]

First, Dreamingwolf, this is only one page that has discussed this tidbit of information. It was originally reported by the AP that Netanyahu received a warning before the attack, then the article was changed that he received a warning after the initial bombing. This isn't a story that was just reported by, purpotedly, just Stratfor. Which, by the way, I did read their other articles that talked about the bombings. Keep in mind that this article I posted NEVER hinted that the Israelis were somehow involved or were responsible for it. The funny thing is, you guys are acting is if the article is anti-semetic, when you are the ones reading anti-semetism into it when it isn't there. You are accusing me of reaching for something when you are doing the exact SAME thing: Looking for anti-semitism when it isn't there. Why?

Talking about warped, Dreaming...Next time you want to accuse me of being an anti-semite, you better say it straight up to me and don't beat around the bush.

And, Ghost, is it possible that Israelis may have foreknowledge of an attack since, perhaps, they have better intel in the field or within certain organizations? That is what my thinking was, not that Israel itself was the perpetrators of the bombing.

So, because Israel's embassy was mentioned, now they are responsbile for the attack? Wow, I thought I was the one reading into stuff, according to you guys - you're even surpassing me!

[Baculus]

What benefit did they get from 9/11 or any other attack?

I spelled out some of the reasons how they could benifit from this attack in my original post. Haven't you been observing recent events with both administrations?

No, to me, what's disturbing are the actions of this administration, and the willingness of its citizens to accept it so easily. *I* am just some poster on a message board - THEY are the ones in charge whose actions affect millions of people.

And you call these "conspiracy theories" disturbing? You haven't been paying attention, my friend - there is a lot more disturbing stuff happening in the world.

Incidentally, I never said that this was 100% positively the case what happened. Not once. But, considering what was happening recently, I found it to be very, very convenient timing. But that may not mean anything at all.

Think what you want - I do.

[Baculus]

Netanyahu Changed Plans Due to Warning

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050707/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_britain_explosions_1

By AMY TEIBEL, Associated Press Writer Thu Jul 7, 7:14 AM ET

JERUSALEM - British police told the Israeli Embassy in London minutes before Thursday's explosions that they had received warnings of possible terror attacks in the city, a senior Israeli official said.

Israeli Finance Minister

Benjamin Netanyahu had planned to attend an economic conference in a hotel over the subway stop where one of the blasts occurred, and the warning prompted him to stay in his hotel room instead, government officials said.

Foreign Minister Silvan Shalom said he wasn't aware of any Israeli casualties.

Just before the blasts, Scotland Yard called the security officer at the Israeli Embassy to say they had received warnings of possible attacks, the official said. He did not say whether British police made any link to the economic conference.

The official spoke on condition of anonymity because of the nature of his position.

The Israeli Embassy was in a state of emergency after the explosions in London, with no one allowed to enter or leave, said the Israeli ambassador to London, Zvi Hefet.

All phone lines to the embassy were down, said Danny Biran, an Israeli Foreign Ministry official.

The ministry set up a situation room to deal with hundreds of phone calls from concerned relatives. Thousands of Israelis are living in London or visiting the city at this time, Biran said.

Amir Gilad, a Netanyahu aide, told

Israel Radio that Netanyahu's entourage was receiving updates all morning from British security officials, and "we have also asked to change our plans."

Netanyahu had been scheduled to stay in London until Sunday, but that could change, Gilad said.

[twa]

The benefit I was refering to was Al Queda,since you were clear on how the US and Brits would Benefit[or Bush and Blair]

Unless you consider all these attacks to be manufactured by the neo-cons?

In my eyes you are blinded by hatred for the right wing of the goverments.

I think what I want too

[Baculus]

I posted an AP article about this.

On another thread, I posted that Al Queda would be fools to conduct this attack. The war isn't extremely popular right now, and even the muslim population is getting sick of terrorism. If some Al Queda-assocated group did this, then they are fools, and its similiar to what started to sink the IRA after an attack around 1998 or so that killed something like 27 British in a bombing.

Of course, no one said Al Queda were very smart, either.

I cannot entirely believe Bush and Blair were involved, either. It IS madness to think that our leaders would be involved, but that's what would be incredulous. Keep in mind, it was senior military leaders that developed Operation Northwood, a fake Cuban terrorist attack that would be a pretext to Cuban invasion. That's madness right there, but it was some of our own government that developed this plan.

Even though I write about so-called conspiracy stuff, I can't believe it all. It's extremely hard to believe, and yet, there has been some incredible events in the past.

[twa]

"I posted that Al Queda would be fools to conduct this attack"

They are fools IMO

What long term benefit is gained for extremest by terrorism?

They are blinded by religous zealotry.

Much like some here are by politics

[Tommy-the-Greek]

I wouldn't be surprised at all if, it is proven that Isreal's intelligence community had some limited prior knowledge about this attack. An attack of this nature had to be carefully planned out months in advance. The cell responsible for carrying out this heinous act probably planned the specifics of the attack in a vacumn. Noone outside the immediate cell knew what they were going to attack. The top leaders outside the cell probably choose the date of the attack. It is this date that the Isreali intelligence community may have gotten wind of.

You don't have to be an expert to know they always seem to choose to attack on a date that has some significance or special meaning to them. I seriously doubt that any of the major intelligence communities knew all the details. I also doubt that the top leaders in Al-queda even knew all the details. That is the only way they can carry out attacks like this and lower the risk of it being found out and prevented.

Even if Blair knew the rumors of a possible attack in London on the day the G-8 summit was to open. I defy anyone to look at a map of London and accurately pick what and where the attacks would take place. So in essence even if the Brits were tipped off and given some information it was impossible to prevent this.

We must all come to grip with the simple fact that these types of attacks are inevitable. The anti-terrorist world will never be able to bat 1.000 in regards to stopping all terrorist attacks. I have faith that we can win the long drawn out War on terror but, I also know we will lose some battles along the way.

What I do question and wonder about is whether we as a nation have the fortitude and will to fight this war to an end?

[TheSteve]

Originally posted by Baculus

I posted an AP article about this.

On another thread, I posted that Al Queda would be fools to conduct this attack. The war isn't extremely popular right now, and even the muslim population is getting sick of terrorism. If some Al Queda-assocated group did this, then they are fools, and its similiar to what started to sink the IRA after an attack around 1998 or so that killed something like 27 British in a bombing.

Of course, no one said Al Queda were very smart, either.

I cannot entirely believe Bush and Blair were involved, either. It IS madness to think that our leaders would be involved, but that's what would be incredulous. Keep in mind, it was senior military leaders that developed Operation Northwood, a fake Cuban terrorist attack that would be a pretext to Cuban invasion. That's madness right there, but it was some of our own government that developed this plan.

Even though I write about so-called conspiracy stuff, I can't believe it all. It's extremely hard to believe, and yet, there has been some incredible events in the past.

So what you're suggesting is that because the idea is so incredible that such a conspiracy is possible it should be considered? I thought propositions were supposed to be judged on the facts not on the possiblities.

[Baculus]

So what you're suggesting is that because the idea is so incredible that such a conspiracy is possible it should be considered? I thought propositions were supposed to be judged on the facts not on the possiblities.

No, that isn't what I said. Please re-read my post and not just the last line.

I thought propositions were supposed to be judged on the facts not on the possiblities.

Oh, such as Iraq and WMDs? The argument is that it's *possible* that Saddam may supply these weapons to Al Queda. We didn't have any facts that Saddam did, but there we are....