nuposse87

Harrison Barnes' athleticism is a joke. Even if on paper, he registered those tremendous scores, he never utilized it in 2 years at UNC. He didn't play dominant ball, and all of a sudden you think he will utilize it against superior competition in the NBA? He may be a decent enough scorer in the NBA, but his game and stats speak for themselves. All he can do is score, and not even efficiently when compared to Beal and MKG's game, although MKG's game is more predicated on smaller things and attacking the rim than long range shooting. Beal did get into a slump but for Barnes' pedigree he's been in a 2 year slump.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56792/bradley-beal

that is beal's game logs. Just looking at it I'd say the middle third of his games was his toughest stretch. He has the right mechanics and has the work ethic to improve, I question Barnes' ability to ever turn it on. I don't want the best potential available, I want the player that translates the best at next level and has demonstrated that. Beal / MKG or bust.

There are some pros and cons obviously about olympic play. On one hand, It will provide good structure and high level of competition for him. I have no doubts that he can become a premier low post threat. His defensive rebounding and TOs are my only concern. Now if he excels in Olympic play and has a stellar season I have a feeling other GMs will take note, and we're going to have to pony up lol. I believe seraphin is J. Noah's backup for the french national team.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_national_basketball_team

Seraphin is one off season with Hakeem from being where I want him to be. I also see a little Z-bo in his game.

I'll give you rebounding, but booker is no slouch on defense. Robinson isn't the most intelligent defensive player in the world but I think he has the potential to be great. Offensively...he is younger so he does have the potential to be better. If we do get him, I won't throw a tantrum...I'd just like to see how we address our putrid wing play.

*btw just an interesting note, Booker had a higher bench press than anyone in this draft. I know basketball isn't necessarily a strong man's game, but it isn't like Booker is getting pushed around the block. I also recall in an interview last season Booker saying seraphin is the strongest player he's banged with down low, we may have some the strongest low post play in the league.

I don't dislike having Robinson on our team...I do have wonders though. Both Booker and T-Rob have the same standing reach, which is most important when guarding opposing 4s, Booker has a higher vertical, and is considerably stronger than Robinson. They have a similar offensive style of play and Booker has finally shown he can hit the mid range jumper. What are we going to get with Robinson that we haven't already gotten with Booker? More hustle plays? Only advantage to Robinson is that we may be able to deal Booker for a mid round pick, and Booker being somewhat injury prone is a bit concerning. That and he has two years left I believe, and odds are we'd rather pay Seraphin than Booker.

Stats mean nothing to me honestly,I'm just not a huge stats guy with prospects there was'nt a huge difference anyway and alot of stuff goes into that teammates, system etc. I form my opinions based off years of being around the game and knowing what i'm looking at. Even in the small video scouting breakdowns draft express has done on both, the difference is night and day between a guy like Barnes and Beal offensively.

Watch the draft express breakdown on both players there breakdown of Beal and its what you'll see if you have access to games. Lots of jumpers and very little creating jumpers or NBA type ISO plays. He also played Sf on a team with shotjackers in the backcourt and no frontcourt help that allowed his rebound numbers to be inflated, he did'nt even average that in high school. He also played 34mpg which is alot in college.

Barnes video you will see lots of NBA type ISO's that translate to the pro game. Shooting off the dribble, pump fakes drawing fouls and getting his own shot off of them. He averaged 7 FTA a game those are great signs to being a pro scorer. Barnes also had a stacked team and was still the #1 option for his club both years. He was the defensive focus unlike Beal. He put up 17ppg in under 30mpg both years.

I still think Barnes goes before Beal NBA GM's have access to some of the same games i've watched of these guys. Beal is a good pick in the 5-8 area but is'nt a elite offensive talent the comparisons to Ray Allen are laughable. Even has a freshman Ray Allen was a lights out shooter that would dunk all over you.

not a big stats guy and then you try to make an argument with how much superior Harden is over Beal with stats, LOL (for the record, I'd take Harden over Beal, but I don't see Harden like potential in Beal anyways)

Here is my biggest problem with Barnes, he may be a 20 ppg scorer in the NBA if given the opportunity, but the same can be said of Nick Young. Barnes doesn't do anything outside of scoring (and not even efficiently) to help his team. He is a stand-out athlete as demonstrated by his combine scores, but I have never seen him use his superior athleticism to dominate the college game, and he should have had no problem.

You claim he had problems with accruing stats because he played at UNC, if anything, having superior talent around you should make you a more efficient player, this was clearly not the case. He was a the number 1 option and still managed to have a worse TS. While Kenny B. was the high scorer for UF this year, but it isn't like Beal was a scrub on the team, he was a close 2nd, just like Zellar was a close 2nd to Barnes. Look at the stats, even though you seem to disregard them when they destroy your argument. If you are suppose to be a star player in the draft, get use to lock down defensive assignments on you, that is how it works in the pro. Barnes proved he can't handle it efficiently, so the whole "oh he was the defensive focal point" thing doesn't really work well IMO. It's also comical you say he put of 17 ppg, he did that at worse efficiency than Beal (btw it was15.6 ppg his first year, I'm nit-picking now, but don't flat out lie). He didn't even improve significantly in his sophomore year. How is that not a red flag?

Ray Allen is one of the greatest players to ever play SG, I'm not expecting that from him. His athletic scores are enough to say he could be like Eric Gordon. Harrison Barnes has shown enough offensive aptitude to make me think he could be a Granger like scorer but I doubt he will ever be as good defensively. I'll take the guy that has Eric Gordon like potential..especially considering how rare good SGs are these days.

Steve, how in the world can you justify taking Beal at #3 thats insanity, you even said so last week.

Honestly for example what does he do better then Barnes?

Rebound? Put him on Unc doubtful. Beal did' nt rebound that well in high school and played Sf this year with shotjacking guards and no legit bigs.

I take all these guys over Beal without hesitation

Davis

Drummond

Barnes

Mkg

Trob

He is' nt a top 3 pick in any draft, period

I already showed you a statistical breakdown of how Beal was a better played in his freshman year than Barnes has been in his 2 seasons. You haven't given one coherent argument other than explaining why Barnes is a better prospect. Do I have to give you the break down again?

---------- Post added June-15th-2012 at 03:16 PM ----------

He'd be a massive roster upgrade for us though. Just because it would be a different role for Harden, doesn't mean he wouldn't be up to fulfilling the extra responsibilities.

He is also a FA after 2013, depending on who we draft will let us know if we're going to make a big run at him. As it stands now, I would see OKC paying up to keep him, even if that is near max money.

Harden can't make a team relevant on his own. He would also likely have to sign an extension for Cha to really consider it. I thought Cho was going to build through the draft like OKC? That sort of trade reeks of incompetence.

Love's problem is they drafted pretty weird players initially to build around him. He is no "hyper-star" in my book, the top 5 players in the game. He is definitely a Star with superstar potential. The only PFs clearly better than him as players you would want to build around are LMA, and Bosh. Those guys have their faults but they can carry teams. I don't include Griffin because I think without a top 5 talent Blake would never make the Clips relevant, he is a good rebounder, and good at dunking and laying...and now that the league is going to look into flopping (hopefully) his hype will hopefully die, as it should.

Getting it back to the Draft and FA debate. Realistically what I would want comes down to what the lolcats do. If they take T-rob I would go with this approach:

Draft Beal. Trade the first 2nd round pick+Booker to buy us back into the 1st mid round. I'm expecting a mid teens like 13-16 with that package. I would then attempt to draft Ross/T. Jones/Moultrie in that order, whichever one is first available. I'm going to assume we don't get Ross and for argument sake we get T. Jones who I think is the perfect Forward off the bench for us. Our last 2nd round pick we'd hopefully use on a guy like....Darius Johnson-Odom. I think he would be a better backup than Mack.

So via the draft we'd add perimeter shooting and hybrid forward for the bench. Cut Lewis, Bench Blatche till the trade deadline cause I doubt Ted will actually amnesty even though he should. With the new cap Space I'd offer a generous package to Ersan Ilyasova who actually helps us in the defensive rebounding department, and functions as a stretch 4, making Wall's job a helluva lot easier. Plus playing with Scott Skiles, I imagine he has a good enough concept of team defense to not be a liability for us.

Wall/DJO

Beal/Crawford

C. Singleton/ T. Jones

Ersan/Seraphin

Nene/Vesly

My hope is C. Singleton returns to early season form and actually becomes the 3 and D forward we expected from him.

Kevin Love isn't a star?

exactly, and even when you compare the two, Love is an exceptionally better athlete than Sullinger. Sullinger is a poor man's Z-Bo. While I like Z-bo he has legit size to bang without athleticism. I see no evidence to believe sullinger can ever be effective as Z-Bo.

---------- Post added June-13th-2012 at 07:30 PM ----------

I'm sold lol. Bring him home.

As Wizards fans, we've been deprived of a Big man with TRUE star potential since Kwame friggin brown. It is hard for me to not root for T-Rob. I believe Beal is still the best grab for us, I'm just hoping the franchise views this objectively and chooses him just because he is a hometown kid. If we could get the 5th pick from Sac in some way a beal+T-rob draft would be ideal. I'd offer Booker+future 1st pic+ 2nd pick for him, and maybe a salary swap for them. Not sure they'd bite on that though.

Millsap, Bass, Boozer and even Kevin Love all have significantly better agility scores than Sullinger. Al Jefferson is a bad comparison, he is a true center and his fat ass was only .3 seconds slower than Sullinger. While pick and pop players have a place in the NBA, if they don't have the ability to guard effectively I don't think they warrant picks in the top 20. Sullinger is too small to bang with even mediocre centers and too slow to deal with average PFs. Doesn't help one of his legs is actually longer than the other, won't take long for his back problems to keep him out of games.

Never said Mkg played Pf. I said he played like a Pf in college posting up smaller Sf' s basically 2 guards shooting his baby hook.

People can doubt Sully all they want we'll see.

What is Barnes shooting percentages i' d bet Beals are' nt better then either of Barnes seasons. Thats without looking so i could be wrong. But spotting up Barnes is deadly.

I still think MKG is crafty enough to score effectively in the NBA, he isn't a good shooter from the perimeter, really that is the only gamble with him. And with his work ethic, I think it is worth it.

As to your wait and see approach for Sullinger...I don't even think he is worth a 1st round pick, and I am dead serious about that. He has back issues, compile that with all my reasoning in my previous post, I can't see how anyone would think he is worth waiting and seeing on. Sorry but I'd rather not see any franchise waste a pick on him, let alone it be my beloved Wizards :/

Well...if you clicked my link you would have seen Barnes shot 42% his first season and 44% his next season. In Beal's rather "mediocre" by some of the people's here standards...first year, he shot 44.5%. Of course I'd rather look at eFG% instead of FG%. Barnes' eFG% was nearly identical in his rookie and sophomore campaign , 48.8 and 48.7 respectively. Beal's eFG% was 52.5%. Oh and it doesn't end there, Beal had a better Per and TS%. When Beal and Barnes was on the floor , Florida and UNC were about the same defensively, but Beal also led to more offensive production when he was on the floor than Barnes. Outside of Barnes being marginally better from the 3 point line, there is not statistical argument you could tell me to take Barnes over beal. Beal is simply better. Not to say Barnes isn't worth a lottery pick, but at the 3rd pick, it is an easy decision between the two.

My views have nothing to do with combine results. I like a consistent body of work which is why I like Sully over Trob. People can't judge Barnes based on the last few games its a body of work.

Here is what I saw in going back

Mkg plays like a Pf in college lots of postups on smaller college Sf's shooting lots of hook shots. Thats not gonna happen in the Nba againest longer Sf's. He is weak as heck to be 230+ and do 6 reps its pitiful at that weight not that it means alot but he wont be a bully on the block. His ballhandling is over rated and he very rarely created off the dribble. Most of his buckets came running the break or posting up.He plays hard and is a good defender but nowhere near what Singleton was at Fsu and we see how that translated although I think he turns it around with a full camp. Mkg will play defense, play hard, rebound and finish on the break and thats about it until he develops a jumpshot. The kid only averaged 20ppg playing in high school.

You do know, Terrance Jones was their PF right? MKG may attack the post like a PF but he definitely showed enough ability that would classify him as a SF. Again, being able to bench press so and so amount of times doesn't correlate to a strong game, especially in basketball. I'll take MKG's defense in year one over Singleton's defensive prowess in his latter years in FSU. I don't know if it was the lockout shorten seasoned or simply not being ready for the pros, but Singleton's production fell off a cliff. He is a decent backup wing but I have my doubts regarding him as a starter. His ball handling (MKG's) is still better than Singleton's and something no one seems to realize, is that this offense is predicated on Wall creating for others, if other players are just OK ball handlers it shouldn't be that big of a concern.

With Barnes what you see is what you get. I think he is a 17-20ppg 5-6 reb Nba player. He plays good defense,posses protypical Sf size and is flatout deadly with his feet set especially on the break. He is a good finisher on the break and a decent rebounder. He hit alot of shots off the dribble but don' t beat many to the rim. He is a perfect fit with a Pg like Wall to get him wide open jumpers. He should continue to improve after being a bigman most of his life.

Barnes does have the physical tools to succeed but he hasn't exactly dominated college play. For someone who was as touted as he was to shoot as poorly as he did at UNC should be a warning rather than an "oh well this guy measueres to so-and-so numbers, clearly he is going to be 20 ppg shooter."

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/harrison-barnes-1.html

He slightly upped his stats and while his PER and TS% are pretty good his advanced stats aren't as impressive as MKG's

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/michael-kidd-gilchrist-1.html

Barnes strikes me as the type of guy that could help a bad team score but unable to help a good team win.

Sully vs Trob

Trob scares me the most he will be boom or bust. He could' nt sniff the court his first 2 seasons or even get more then 10 min per game. The Morris twins are' nt anything special proving that this year. If your a special elite talent they find a spot for you. Not only that but his To' s are very high for a bigman even in limited minutes the previous seasons. What he is though this year was a bulldog outhustling guys playing hard.

Markieff stil has a chance to be an OK pro, but his brother....just sucks..I'm a little with you here, in that I see T-rob having some bust potential...but I think his floor is the safest in this draft, unless you draft A. Davis. His style of play leads me to belive he can at least make a couple jumpshots a game with put backs and hustle points rounding him out. At the very least, a 10-8 PF.

When I compare Sully and Trob to me its skill vs athletism. Both struggle with lenght, both play good post man defense but dont defend the rim. Both are good rebounders. But Sully is advanced offensively a very skilled, smart player. He knows when to screen& roll, has array of post moves with excellent footwork. He has developed a nice 3 pt shot and is deadly from the highpost pick and pop game. He showed his work ethic losing weight but he wont wow anyone with his physique or athlethism. Trob seems to be the type that will run the floor, get putbacks ans stick a elbow jumpers but not a offensive creater at all on the block like Sully. If he can' t rebound the same way as college and we' ve seen it before with dominant guys like Beasley he will be a bust and 1 year wonder.

OK people need to wake up and realize how terrible Sullinger will be at the next level. He may be the most skilled big man in the draft, but he will be an AWFUL defensive liability. His lane agility is on par with Brendan Freaking Haywood. You can't possibly twist the fact he won't be able to keep up with PFs in the NBA let alone rotate quickly enough to provide any sort of weak side help. Robinson has shown he has some post moves, and I don't see why he won't improve. Robinson's jump shot doesn't even look all that bad, if Booker can improve as much as he did, I don't see why anyone would doubt Robinson could. We've already seen how woeful Sullinger performs when confronted with NBA size as the match against Kansas clearly demonstrates. Sully may be a decent big man off the bench, but he has NO potential to be a starter in this league. At least T-rob has that going for him.

Well I think both Beal and Barnes proved they are more athletic than people gave them credit for. You can't praise the way Beal has shown for himself and simultaneously dismiss Barnes.

Beal actually played to what people expected of him in the ladder part of the season. I can't attest to why that is, but he made amends for it. Barnes didn't play to his pedigree, not only was he suppose to be the best SF in the country, he had the tools to be the best player in the country. He didn't demonstrate anything near that. Can he turn it around? Sure, but I wouldn't bet the 3rd pick on it. I see him being a Rudy Gay like player, hyper-athlete that can fill up the stat sheet but I'm not sure he has the intangibles to will a team into a contender role. I guess that is ok for a 5-10 pick, but for a top 5 pick, I want a player that can AT least dominate the game in one aspect, whether it be offense or defense.

I agree that Charlotte should draft Drummond, but if they do, he might be forced to play before he's ready. It'd be best for him to sit behind a pro like Nene early in his career.

I'm not high on Drummond, I think he has high bust potential. But when he does get drafted...he might 2nd most physically imposing player in the NBA 2nd only to Dwight. That alone should buy him some playing time. All he really needs to do is learn to camp in the post. Until he learns to shoot his damn FTs he will be a liability though. That is a risk CHA should take. I won't necessarily be irate if we got him, but with the failures of Kwame Brown and AB(although he was a 2nd round pick) I have little faith we'd develop him correctly.

Re: MKG, I think he's the player that ends up being nitpicked the most as the process wears on. He's not going to pop in highlights or in athletic tests. He's got those ugly shot mechanics and his numbers don't jump off the page. People will forget about his games and how well he played over the course of the year.

High work ethic is a big plus for me. As odd as MKG's shooting motion is, I think it will be good enough one day where he can be a third option on a team. Maybe 2nd. I think his defense would be amazing for us. I've been saying, since Booker and Nene can shoot the mid range game, and if you add someone like B. Rush or D. Green you will have good enough floor spacing for guys like Wall and MKG to slash.

That's true about his arm length relative to his height. Most basketball players don't have exactly the same arm length as their height. The flip side though is that he is a legit seven feet so his arm length is still workable for an NBA center.

I don't think his potential for growth is very high. I don't think he's ever an All Star. But I do think he'll be a good starting center with some offensive skills--a couple of workable post moves and some nice pick and pop range. Plus he runs pretty well and can finish in transition and he defends pretty well for not having very much length. Kind of like Nene. I could see him being averaging like 15 to 16 & 9 on good shooting and playing good team defense during his prime. Pair that with a rebounding freak like TRob who could legitimately average like 18-20 and 11 and you've got the makings of a really nice front court.

A 15-9 center on solid efficiency in the modern NBA is a max player bro curtail your expectations a little. I see him as a...bit more active Spencer Hawes. Could be a decent stop gap center, but just about that. His height does help him, but his release point on his shot can be altered by NBA size. That is the worrisome part.

No TRob? Right now I'm taking TRob over Beal for sure--if he's available.

T-Rob...Ugh...I'm really torn on him right now. He has shown signs of a face up game, which could make a dominant PF in the NBA...but still it is just signs. Add the fact his "story" just makes you want the guy to succeed. I think he has the safest floor among all the draft pics not named A. Davis. I think he could easily be a 15-8 PF, possibly higher, but that is contingent on quite a bit of development. If we draft him, we gotta use booker and our 2nd round pick (first one) to get back into the mid first round. Being a junior also makes you wonder what really is his ceiling. Beal and MKG have shown very good signs at very young ages. I just see more potential in them.

We're going to beat to death this 3rd pic issue, I'm curious what people see as plausible ideas for our 2nd round pick or the possibility of moving into the first round.

We're in an odd situation now. Personally I see the Bobcats swinging for the fences with Drummond. The team really has nothing to build with so they'd probably be best served with a player that is more potential than production. Barnes' numbers are quite impressive, but he never seemed to use his athleticism to dominate games. I see this as a bit of fools gold, he may go 4 now to the cavs but I still have my doubts about him. Beal's athletic numbers aren't as gawdy as Eric Gordon's but it is enough to make me think w/e inefficiencies he has with his size, he can make up with his superior athleticism. MKG is pretty much where I thought he'd be, his stock only goes down because others helped themselves more than people thought.

My only issue with Zeller is his T-rex arms, not sure how that will translate for him in the next level. He is a skilled player though. Being a senior also limits his potential, I could see him falling into the late teens.

It is still a toss up between MKG and Beal for me.

---------- Post added June-11th-2012 at 03:51 PM ----------

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Drummond has the size and strength of a true center, he just happens to be a freak athlete on top of that. PJIII has the height of a PF/C but he lacks strength and was pushed around at the college level. He's one of those players without a true position in the NBA and will likely end up playing a great deal of SF.

I think he played out of position at Baylor to be honest. He is a wing player in my mind that can defend the 4. I would draft him to be our 3. PJ III still has demonstrated skills to play at the next level so I think its worth some risk, but i might be in the minority here.

I don't really think Ross is a legit lottery talent. He'd fit a need, but isn't close to as good a player as Sully is to justify reaching for him at 10 (assuming Sully is available).

PJIII just doesn't have it in him. I don't think he amounts to anything in the NBA. He'll come out with an individually monstrous game just often enough to fool you into giving him extra chances but he will simply never be an important part of a winning team. He'll bounce around the league for a few seasons, be on his third or fourth team in five years. He's not worth it. I wouldn't take PJIII over Jan Vesely if they were both in the same class.

guess it depends on whose scouting reports you believe. I personally like ross as the 2nd best SG in this draft. He has great size for the 2 and great athleticism. Beal is the only guy I feel who could be more of a "sure thing" at the two spot than Ross. As the PJ III, he has huge question marks, but if you're in the camp of drafting players out of potential, like Drummond you can't help but marvel at PJ III's massive athleticism advantage over others. With him and drummmond, you can coach up players that need to get motivated. I don't mind taking a player like that at 10, at the 3...I'm not so sure. I think Sully will be gone by 10 honestly, and the team that takes him will more than likely end up with a poor man's milsap in my opinion. His advanced stats are great, I have no idea how his game will translate in the next level, that makes it gamble to me. I'd rather gamble on someone who has the potential to dominate than someone whose best case scenario is a the first big off the bench on a playoff team.

What about TRob at 3 and Sully at 10? Would you double down like that? Sully lookin like he can play center.

I would do T-rob/MKG at 3 and either terrance ross, or PJIII with the 10. I think sullinger could be an OK pro but you have to really think, is he going to be THAT much better than seraphin? I doubt his game translates as effectively in the pros as seraphin has recently demonstrated. If you take Beal at 3 and take sullinger at 10 I have no major irks with that. Wing play must be addressed though. Name some players we can trade in plausible scenarios to befit the idea of taking Sullinger and T-Rob with the the two top 10 pics.

The story is on realgm and other outlets. The Hornets would be willing to dump #10 to dump Okafor and Ariza.

It would be Rashard for #10, Ariza, Okafor

You could probably flip Okafor for someone like Ben Gordon.

I'd do it in a heartbeat were not signing a bigname anyway.

PG-Wall-Mack

OG-Ariza-Crawford

SF-Singleton-Vesely

PF-Nene-Booker

C-Okafor- Seraphin

Nene,Okafor and Seraphin can all play the 4 or 5. Okafor and Ariza are good defensively. Ariza is better defending Sf's but can play 2 guard. Thats a very good big deep frontcourt that can handle a injury.

Then you have the #3, #10,#32,#45 picks

ah another RealGMer. Yah I saw this trade and..I'm not against it because I wanted cap room to sign James Harden in '13 but now it seems more and more OKC will shell out near max money to retain him. My concern is that Ariza, while good on D is a career 32% shooter from the 3. Flipping Okafor for Gordon would be ideal, he might be the perfect 6th man for us. I would try to flip Ariza for Marvin Williams, their contracts are near each other, we can add filler, my only reasoning there is that he knock down the corner 3 a lot better.

I would then see if we could move Booker+32 pic to get back into the middle of the first round. I think it is reasonable to think within the 14-16 range.This gives us the opportunity to draft based on talent rather than need (I prefer doing it the other way but I'm just seeing what I can create here). I would be surprised if LOLcats didn't take Robinson, they need a sure thing, I'm pretty sure Robinson is the most NBA ready player.

We would have the 3rd, 10th, 15th or so, and 45.

Drummond is our value pick. We will be expecting a lot from him but he can sit behind Nene and pray to w/e he doesn't bust. 10th I'd go Terrence Ross. Dude will be a solid swing-man. 15 I'd T. Jones, energy forward off the bench. He has a chiseled frame, might be able to to develop as the guy we need to lock down on guys like LBJ and Melo. 45th I'd take the best PG available or just flip it for cash considerations. If tyshawn taylor is there, perhaps him.

Roll out next season with

Wall/T. Taylor

Ross/Gordon/ J. Crawford

M.Williams/T. Jones/C. Singleton

Vesly/Seraphin

Nene/Drummond

I switched Jan and seraphin as the starting PFs just to have bench scoring balance in the low post..I'd probably still try to get rid of crawford and sign the best spot up 3pt shooter we could. D. Green preferably.

His eFG% wasn't bad so it's clearly his free throws that caused the TS% to be terrible. The fact that he lacks an offensive game and is on a horrible team most certain affects his stats as well. Do you dispute that? As for his free throws, yeah he needs to improve his percentage a lot.

The team chemistry was bad, I won't say you're wrong about that. That all falls on all the UCONN prospects equally. I love Lamb's game but I wonder if he can work well with a team because of this past season. The same applies to Drummond. Given that Drummond is a dunking machine if he didnt't have a eFG% north of 50 i'd be very worried. That just tells me his posts moves need work...can he get there? Absolutely. We are gambling though, and I'd argue moreso with Drummond than other prospects.

As for Withy's PER... um he played 3 minutes a game his freshman year.

Than look to his sophmore and Junior year and see how a lesser athlete was still a better center

The major factor with Rivers is that he has speed and handlers to flat out beat defenders. Crawford and Beal do not. My concern is that average athletes that do well in college struggle to replicate those results at the pro level. Should also be noted that Rivers had a better 3P% than Beal, despite his love of jacking up bad shots.

I will let it be known, I am trying to look at rivers objectively but He comes off as bit arrogant and being a dukie makes it a bit more difficult for me to give him any benefit of the doubt. That being said...for a team that doesn't have a ball dominant PG he isn't a bad option. In terms of fit I don't see it with Wall. We need a catch and shoot SG with decent handles. Both Beal and Lamb fit that but they don't create for themselves like Rivers does. I think Rivers also benefited from superior team play. If we don't take beal, and we're trying to draft a SG based on their potential, I'll still say Ross has very good value at say, the 10th pick.

Wall

Crawford

MKG

Seraphin

Nene

Know what I see there? A team with out a single reliable shooter on the floor. Spacing would be an absolute nightmare because every single defender would give up a great deal of space on the perimeter entirely content to live with the shot attempt.

well, I doubt that would be the open day line up. My scenario would include signing one of either D. Green, B. Rush. Both of those guys have a better concept of not jacking shots up than Crawford and play team defense better.

Wall

D. Green/B. Rush

MKG

Booker

Nene

OR if we draft a SG

Wall

Beal/Lamb/Rivers/Ross

D. Green/G. Green/ J. Green(although he may be a bit overpriced

Booker

Nene

I put booker in over seraphin because he did develop an outside jumper last year. He certainly is undersized at 6'7 but his standing reach and superior strength and athleticism last year was commendable was it not? Oh and Nene certainly open's up room for slashers he has a fairly nice shot from the high post. Wall and MKG are the only guys in either scenarios that haven't consistently proven to knock down a J.

Regarding the best SG arguments:

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/bradley-beal-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/austin-rivers-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeremy-lamb-1.html

Lamb and Beal are fairly efficient players with Rivers just being alright. Lamb's mid range game is pretty solid, if coaching really was the problem, i would trade back and try to grab him. Defensively Rivers was also the worst of the bunch, but he did go against fairly good ACC talent so I can cut him some slack. If you are drafting on potential I'd say Lamb, he has a very smooth game but he'll need some coaching. Beal measures like Eric Gordon...but he isn't the athlete he was. He lacks that explosive first step, so he would need to grow a little to compensate.

TS% accounts for free throws which Drummond absolutely struggled with, not exactly the giant red flag you want to make it out to be. The ratings are greatly impacted by the team on the floor around these player. No one in their right minds would argue that UConn had a better defense or offense than either Kansas or Kentucky.

UConn had the 155th scoring offense and the 99th scoring defense.

Kentucky? 15th offense 25th defense

Kansas? 48th offense 44th defense

Like I've said before the entire team imploded. The scouts watch the game tape and they are saying he can defend, not just shot block. He has the size to hold his ground and the speed to help. It should also be noted that no one is saying he should be taken over Davis.

None of the players available to the Wizards are win now immediate impact options. A slightly undersized rebounding PF (TRob), a wing that can't shoot (MKG), an undersized average athlete that can't create his own shot at SG (Beal). I do find it interesting that people are willing to accept that Beal is a great shooter despite his numbers screaming otherwise. Shot selection is part of being a great shooter.

If you think his putrid FT shooting which if he doesn't improve will be used against him, is the only reason his TS was bad than I might to have to concede you just pick and choose the stats you like to befit your argument. UCONN was dysfunctional yet you don't want to say Drummond may have shouldered some of that blame? Drummond was an ineffcient player given his size, on a much lower level. Even Withey's per in his freshman year was better. Scouts say a lot of things, and like me or anyone else. They get things wrong.

You say shot selection is part of being a great shooter yet you think Austin Friggin Rivers is an option, lol. That is a vulgar joke. We have his slightly shorter clone in Jordan Crawford. As to your win-now argument. With Nene we did rather well. Did we play ****ty competition? Yes, but good teams blow bad teams out. We had our struggles but we have people can start and play efficiently. Nene and seraphin can be a starting frontcourt tandem for a playoff team. I've seen enough from Seraphin to think he will fix his most glaring shortcoming which is defensive rebounding, and say it is worth a gamble to pick the best wing talent available. MKG doesn't have to be a knock down shooter for us improve at the 3, he just needs to get average, I'd rather put my faith in his work ethic than Drummond's.

Defense, shot blocking, and rebounding are not part of playing basketball?

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 02:24 PM ----------

Where did you hear that?

That's the exact opposite of what you heard.

Being a superb shot blocker doesn't mean he will be a good defensive big man. I am aware the article claims he has defensive rotational ability but from what few games I was able to catch, he seemed slow and out of place.You can make the argument that the whole team may have been the problem but I take it for what it is.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/andre-drummond-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jeff-withey-1.html

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/anthony-davis-5.html

Drummond's defensive rating and opponent offensive rating is significantly worse thant Anthony Davis and Whitey(Someone who I mocked, and will gladly eat crow for doing so). What is worst Offenses are stagnant with Drummond in the game as represenative by the Ortg. Not to mention his rather, Meh TS% which is a giant red flag given his absurd physical attributes. So yeah, he is a bad defensive center.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 02:54 PM ----------

Drafting Drummond says nothing about Wall.

It absolutely does, we aren't in win-now mode with drummond. You are building for a future...Again. Wall still has a chance on becoming a top 5 pg, my hope is he will but if things stay the same I could see ernie Drafting potential with Drummond should he be there. This franchise only goes as far as Wall can take us. If he can't I don't blame them for trying to prepare for his potential departure.

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that is an interesting leap.

If the Wizards drafted Davis, would you feel the same way? He is as big of a project as Drummond, imo

Davis has a floor though, even now, that could be effective for the wizards. Looking at those highlights, all Drummond can do effectively is dunk. Jan can do the same thing, but not with the same authority. Drummond has also shown to be quite incompetent in defense...which would take time to fix, and the fact that he may actually be able to fix it. Drummond's floor IMO is current Kwame Brown..a serviceable Big man that is bigger than most in the league (but ever Kwame plays competent Man D). Davis' floor is Camby IMO. Davis' main concern is his need for bulk in order to bang down low. His frame suggests he can do that. As stupid as the wizards are at developing bigmen, they wouldn't have trouble in finding a nutritionist to help him gain weight. It must be said though, I think Drummond's ceiling is higher than Davis'. A team doesn't necessarily need to extend their rebuild plan with Davis, I guess that is what I am trying to get at.

---------- Post added June-8th-2012 at 02:17 PM ----------

The team has enough young players as it is on the floor, the last thing Wall needs is a rookie that comes in getting 25+ minutes a game. He needs veterans on the floor with him not rookies that are learning how to play. If this team wants to make Wall happy that doesn't happen in the draft that happens via trades and free agency. Drummond can sit behind Nene and Seraphin. Remember, Drummond can rebound and he can play defense, his weakness was on the offensive end of the floor so he can be a rotation player should anyone get injured.

I've heard he is atrocious in defense. He has the same awareness McGee had. He may make some highlight reel blocks, but if he doesn't know how to rotate we get set back another year or two. If we draft him we have to trade away any decent young assets we have in order to land veteran FAs that can make a difference.

*I'm not uber against taking him...just don't see us being able to get the talent we need to satisfy Wall in the mean time. We would have to trade 2 of Jan, Booker, And Seraphin(don't want him to go) in order to get a serviceable 3. The option of giving Lewis for ariza+Okafor+10 pick also exists...but that is a lot of salary talent for Meh talent.

Drummond is a project player though...he isn't exactly refined in the low post. I'm not sure that John Wall would appreciate us trying to develop another big man (who has franchise potential). Drafting Drummond would lead me to believe the organization doesn't believe wall has the ability to develop to be a top 5 pg, and they may be looking to a future without him. Cause I doubt Wall sticks around for another two years of futility. We'd have to trade away big men for this to work.

John Henson, 6'9 without shoes.... With a 7'5 wingspan. How the hell does that happen?

helps his stock a lot...his problem is his frame isn't really conducive to adding much weight...for his sake, I hope he is.