GoSkins0721

Oklahoma, dude. ****ing Oklahoma: "The Land That Time Forgot"

Yep, those are a good option, too. The one thing I would caution about buying any paver/brick is be sure you are buying the same lot number. Regardless of what they tell you, the color does vary by lot. I've worked with several brick clients over the years and it varies by run/lot. I forgot to mention that earlier. And you're right, you can always add on to a patio. Not having to cut them is the key.

That's a good idea. Some people prefer the "rock dust" instead of sand. That's the stuff they use under roadways. It can get as hard as concrete but isn't permanent. Also, putting that plastic edging nailed down with large spikes will keep anything from shifting. VT can't use mortar because it looks like his water shutoff will be underneath the pavers. Here's a good visual of the steps including the plastic edging: http://cleancutproperty.com/landscaping/paver-patio/

Thanks for the compliment. I fought planting grass in this area for 20 years & finally decided to bite the bullet for a patio. The only thing I would add to your comments is: rent a gas tamper to tamp down the sand or dust you put down. You could make one out of a small piece of plywood & a 2" x 2" for the handle. Also, constantly check the level. I would try to have a slight pitch away from the house so water drains off & away from the house. That looks like your water shut off valve. You should be able to see a faucet & gauge in there. If so, you're fine covering it over with new pavers. I would somehow mark the paver(s) near it so you know where it is in case of emergency.

We didn't put in our patio ourselves, but here are a few things we considered while deciding what we wanted. Some of this might be "yeah, I know that" but I thought I'd post anyway: Pavers come in all shapes, sizes & colors. Make sure you have some samples & put them in your yard to be sure it's what you want. Decide on the pattern of the pavers so you can determine how many of each size you want. Here's a link that will show you what I'm talking about http://www.eaglebayusa.com/pavers/cottagestone/ We chose the "Cottage Stone 3 I" pattern. One of the contractors who gave us an estimate said this pattern was a good option for smaller patios. We used a tumbled style paver. The style of the paver is important as it determines how many cuts you will need to make. Our patio is kind of a semi-circle with a long winding sidewalk. They cut a TON of pavers to keep the pattern throughout the patio & sidewalk. So, be prepared to cut pavers. They used a handheld power saw with a diamond blade. They used a plastic edge, hammered in with large spikes to set the edge. It keeps the edge straight & keeps the pavers from moving. These things bend easily to patch the layout. If you're thinking about adding a wall, make sure the paver you're buying has a matching wall blocks. That's about all I can think of right now. Here's a pic of part of the finished patio, with the fireplace my wife & I put together:

I know! I was rolling. I don't know why it didn't post the vid in the thread. Every time I try to post a vid or pic it seems to work sporadically. I'm obviously not doing something right.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8hYAdOpW_Y Didn't have receipts for "dubious" expense report....

^^ cop missed that from inches away? Is that Brazil today?

Hey! I resemble that remark!

Good for you! I see the deck is bigger than originally planned. Did you go with Trex or wood for the deck & railings? Any decision on the patio? Post some pics when it's done.

Well, 8x12 is not that big (it's less than 100 square feet). If I were you, I'd build it bigger than you think you need. Find a deck design website & place the virtual furniture on it (plus grill, etc.) You'll see how much space that stuff takes. A couple of chairs, grill, table, umbrella stand and suddenly you have no space to enjoy a ****tail with more than 1 person. Since it will be at the 2nd floor level, I'm assuming that is the main house floor where the kitchen is. If so, you will definitely want to have your grill & other things on the deck so you don't have to go up & down the stairs to the patio to cook. I keep my gas grill on my deck & my smoker on my patio. The smoker is used for long cooks that I don't have to monitor every 10 minutes. That's a nice size patio. As I said, look at the patio pavers/stone as an option to concrete (which can crack). Since you have a new home, the ground around your house is going to settle for a while. For the fence, I've never done a vinyl fence but I'm pretty sure you can't just push them in the ground. They have to be set in concrete. It's really not that difficult if you're the least bit handy. A 1 or 2 person power auger will make short work out of digging the holes. The work is the design & layout in your yard. Once that is all mapped out, hole digging & filling with concrete is not bad. Again, depends on the size & number of post holes. The other hard part is getting the gate right (as in designed & laid out correctly).

A friend of mine used a similar product 2-3 years ago. I would rate it a C-. The product was very, very thick. He said it didn't cover nearly as much as it was supposed to. He only did the deck & not the railings & spindles. It has a very rough texture to it that I don't like. Oh, and it was expensive. I've seen the new product advertised but not actually used. From the commercials (I know, I know) it looks thinner than the product he used. If I were going to use it, I think I'd buy a treated board to test how it covers & how it looks after putting it on & letting it sit in the sun for a week or 2. Also, I'd have to give serious thought on what to use on the railings & spindles (this product, something else or nothing). If you decide to use it, let us know the results.

Approximate sizes for each? Fence - Pretty easy weekend warrior job could possibly be done in 1 weekend. Estimates from a fence company will be per foot AND additional charge for the number of gates you want. Make sure you know where you want the gates. Deck - off of a second level makes this less of a DIY (at least for me). The few decks I've assisted in building were all treated wood not composite. If I did mine over, I would use wood on the floor & composite for the railings/spindles. I ended up painting ours AFTER construction and hate it every few years I need to re-do it. Power washing & staining the deck floor every couple of years is pretty painless (~3 hours of work & about $100 for material & renting the power washer). Patio - I would vote against concrete, but that's just me. A decent brick/stone patio can be done for a reasonable price. We like the look of the tumbled (man made) stone. Plus, a matching stone knee wall adds to the look. Add a fireplace & you have a nice patio. I'll post a pic of mine if I can find it. Before you jump into any of these, consider the annual maintenance costs (fence is usually $0) before deciding on the material. For the patio, look at plenty of examples before you decide to go one way or the other. Also consider what & where you will put things on the deck & patio (chairs, tables, lighting, electrical plugs, running water, grill, speakers, tv, etc.) in your design. Hope this helps...

Remember the threats after the 2nd win in Chicago? Maybe they catch these asshats... WASHINGTON -- The Wizards say the NBA has investigated a person who made threats to the team on Twitter during its first-round series against the Chicago Bulls. Center Marcin Gortat said Thursday after practice that there was "one gentleman who really threatened us, actually made some terrorist threats to us." More at the link... http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2014/story/_/id/10868407/nba-investigates-twitter-threats-sent-washington-wizards

No way. Seriously. The dudes name is "Popadick" and he was caught for exposing himself? LMFAO!!

Skin'emAlive...I hope you're nowhere near this: "KATMANDU, Nepal – An avalanche swept Mount Everest's slopes on Friday along a route used to climb the world's highest peak, killing at least 12 Nepalese guides and leaving three missing in the worst disaster to hit climbers on the mountain, officials said." http://www.foxnews.com/world/2014/04/18/avalanche-sweeps-everest-6-killed-missing/

Wilbon has been dead to me for many, many years.

Go argue with the American Cancer Society (my highlight): "Regular screening can often find colorectal cancer early, when it is most likely to be curable. In many cases, screening can also prevent colorectal cancer altogether. This is because some polyps, or growths, can be found and removed before they have the chance to turn into cancer." http://www.cancer.org/cancer/colonandrectumcancer/detailedguide/colorectal-cancer-detection

That's a good one. Your original point was to berate preventative care practices because those "free" procedures actually cost money. I agree, they do. But I pointed out the costs of the preventative care does not come close to the costs to treat the disease(s) they are preventing (you know, the costs you ****ed about increasing as a result of the cost of preventative care). Now your counter is: "Well, you'll live longer with preventative care practices so it's actually costing us more". Like I said, that's a good one. "Live longer and you cost us all more money". You didn't address my point of saving more money by catching/preventing a disease early. At this point, I don't expect you too. Sounds like those death panels were a good idea after all

That's a pretty broad brush to use to paint 'preventative care'. The trend the past 30+ years is to have more preventative procedures be covered by insurance companies. Hell, I've had dental x-rays covered by my dental insurance since the early '80s. Once a year, I think, and then the panoramic x-ray paid for once every 2 or 3 years. Mammograms, pap smears, flu shots, etc.etc.etc. have all been part of the move to preventative care. And, I hope the trend continues as more & more tests are developed. Because this is much cheaper than paying for the associated illness (or dying). And, yeah, these have to be paid for through increases in premiums. But it's not new & unique to Obamacare. Edit: Damn, I'm slow. I forgot what hasn't been mentioned: While the cost of these preventative care procedures increases the premiums, I don't know where or who has the data to determine how much LOWER the premiums are because something was caught at an early stage. That is, if it's caught earlier & can be prevented, there is less future costs incurred to deal with the medical condition prevented. Any idea how to factor those costs that didn't occur into the premiums people pay?

Yeah, anyone over the age of 50 who hasn't experienced the joy of a colonoscopy owes it to themselves to have one. The prep work is something that shouldn't be missed. In all seriousness, it is one of the most powerful weapons for preventing colorectal cancer.

That made me laugh. In a sad, DC fan kind of way.

The early push button phones didn't have these buttons (phones that hit the market in the early-mid '60s). They only had the numbers on the phone. If you see one of these phones, they look pretty funny (but were futuristic to us oldsters who grew up with rotary phones!): 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 It wasn't until the late '60s that engineers had the idea to connect phones to computers. They worked with computer experts & came up with the @ and # buttons to add to the push button phone. So, they were added with the idea they could be used to help connect telephones to computers.

LCL, MCL, ACL...kid's sports career is over before it even started!