SittingBull Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Originally posted by Westbrook36 Hmmm. So you think the Worst Case Scenario for your defense is to be decent which translates to average? The very worst that they will be is average. So you expect them to be above average? Thanks for the synopsis on my post :dunce: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Glory Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 What good is a ball hawking Safty when the other team is running up our gut because our D-line sucks? Taylor had better be a good tackler because his tackling skills will be on more display then his in the air ball hawking skills. P.S.--------there is no such thing as a " great" safety. Safties are either average or good. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OURYEAR#56 Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 I think we're going to mimmic the Ravens this year. Our d-line will occupy the blockers, and the backers will make the plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Originally posted by Old Glory What good is a ball hawking Safty when the other team is running up our gut because our D-line sucks? Taylor had better be a good tackler because his tackling skills will be on more display then his in the air ball hawking skills. P.S.--------there is no such thing as a " great" safety. Safties are either average or good. Period. It's way to early for you to say our d-line sucks. Disagreeing with our off-season moves is one thing, but at least give them a chance on the field before you go saying they suck. Great Safeties: Ronnie Lott Steve A****er Merton Hanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted June 3, 2004 Share Posted June 3, 2004 Daniels posted 9 sacks in 1999 and again in 2001 when surrounded by quality talent in the front seven. I don't know what his physical skill leve still is at 31, but if the coaching staff made such an early move to pick him up when he was released I have to believe it is because Blache and Williams think Phillip has some good football left in him. By his own admission the scheme in Chicago in 2003 didn't suit his putting up sack numbers as it did earlier on when he first arrived with the Bears. He has put up respectable numbers vs. the run in terms of tackles, assists, etc. At 6'5 and 288 he brings the kind of size the Skins have been missing at DE in the recent past. Smith and Upshaw were both under 265 at RDE last year. We were undersized at DT as well when we had to rely on Bernard Holsey at 286 to be a starter. For those that suggest the line is poor, I would submit that Daniels and Griffin are a pretty good upgrade from Bruce Smith and Bernard Holsey The Redskins, a team with what I would consider very good depth for the most part, doesn't have any first-team pro bowlers on the DL. But then again it didn't appear in May of 1991 that the Skins had much on the DL except for Charles Mann. Fred Stokes who came in under Plan B became a starter and so did Eric Williams, acquired in a trade from Detroit. Both solid players but hardly guys the national press was going to go ga-ga over and predict the Skins defense would be stellar, yet it was. The 1991 team allowed fewer points and had more sacks than the more heralded defenses with Dexter Manley and Co. back in the early and mid-1980's. Meanwhile, veterans such as Mat Millen and Martin Mayhew filled in at critical spots much as Michael Barrow and Shawn Springs are expected to do in 2004. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted June 4, 2004 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by jrfriedm A little harsh don't you think, jbooma? The guy was just listing some players he thought would be good to keep an eye on, and saying that he wishes we would get his favorite. Hell, I was hopeing for Sean Taylor, and I'm far form being an NFL coach. (In fact, I just turned down the head coaching job at the middle school I teach at. I'm happy with being an asst. I don't think that I'm ready to be a head coach even at this level. IT wouldn't be fair to the kids). I think that some people are getting a little to worked up here lately. We all need to just take a deep breath, and remember were ALL Redskins fans here, and we all want them to win. Hail to the Redskins.... Amen jrfriedm. This place is for Redskins fans to discuss their opinions about their favorite team, weather they are popular one's or not. If anyone thinks that by sharing my opinion here makes me a coach...I can definately tell you where to send me my paycheck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted June 4, 2004 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by Chachie There are many factors that go into making a defensive line good or bad. I know it doesn't look like we have a lot of "talent" on ours but I have to believe that Gibbs, Williams and Blache would have drafted a stud d-lineman if they saw our team as needing one so badly. This team is in "win now" mode and would not leave such a "gaping hole" in the squad unless it were in a "rebuilding" mode. Cornelius Griffin and Phillip Daniels aren't exactly Reggie White or Deacon Jones, but they ARE an upgrade. Regan Upshaw will get more playing time now that Bruce Smith is gone and I think that will be an upgrade in strength and run-stop. With an improved safety corps and most of all, good coaching (thank god) we can be a good defense despite a blue-collar defensive line. And what the hell is wrong with "blue-collar" anyway? Your absolutely right Chachie and I now feel as if I havebeen over reacting thanks to good, broad, objective observations of both the players and the coaching staff from yourself and alot of you other guys. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted June 4, 2004 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by Cskin Didn't Daniels admit that the he was asked to do more read and recognize than the years his sack numbers were up and they had an attacking..ballhawking defense. I believe he wasn't allowed to pin his ears back the last few years. I'm interested to see the unit, Wynn/Griffin/Noble/Daniels work together and gel into a solid unit. Add Haley, Salaveaa, and Upshaw to the mix and we might still have a solid unit. I'd still like to see them take a look at Marcus Bell of Arizona, 6'2 229lbs. and 25 years old sounds enticing. It will be interesting to see this unit perform. But I believe Upshaw will start in front of Wynn hopefully and with reguards to Marcus Bell...try 329lbs.. Im not sure he is what we are looking for though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted June 4, 2004 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by IAMBG Bottom line is that they are an improvement over last years' line. They stand to be even better with Noble healthy. Wynn and Daniels were both picked up becuase coaches and scouts saw them as versitle. No one talked smack about Wynn his first year here other than that he stands to make some money. Keep in mind we had a rookie DC and likely an even more green defensive staff to couple with our horrible offensive staff, minus Hugh Jackso. We will be better. JBOOMA, you should designate me as your wannabe armchair coach. I got your burgundy kool-aid. Oh, by the way, who the hell ever won the ghetto draft? Alot of people have mentioned Brandon Nobles name lately. Is he even a facter anymore? I have not read /heard one report of his progress. It would be great to have him next to Griffin, but wouldnt he have to earn that spot, especially coming off of a totally reconstructed knee? My other concern about him is that he was a back up in Dallas, wasnt he? Then again, my memory is failing :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted June 4, 2004 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by SittingBull Who was on our D-Line the last year Marvin Lewis was our D coordinator and what was our D ranked that year? Who was on the Bills D-Line last year and what was their D ranked? We will be decent at the worst on D. HUH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted June 4, 2004 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by Heavy Jumbo I guess I just completely missed the point of the thread. So, my reply to what you MEANT: Our DL may not be in as much trouble as people will lead us to believe. We haven't seen this personel perform with these coaches yet, so NOBODY has any idea what will happen. I'll just trust what Gibbs, Williams, and Blache can do this year compared to how we saw them perform last year with Spurrier, Edwards and Nunn. I totally agree. It is posts like yours and other guys that remind me of the great coaching staff that Gibbs and Williams have surrounded themselves with. I am feeling a bit more optimistic about our D-line thanks to you guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted June 4, 2004 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by illone I will too, and as rumor had it the Pats were interested in Taylor as well. No way we goofed, we added a ball hawk type safety. No regrets. Yea we needed d-line but not at the expense of passing on Taylor. Sure, good safeties can be gotten anytime but not GREAT safeties. Agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted June 4, 2004 Author Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by Old Glory What good is a ball hawking Safty when the other team is running up our gut because our D-line sucks? Taylor had better be a good tackler because his tackling skills will be on more display then his in the air ball hawking skills. P.S.--------there is no such thing as a " great" safety. Safties are either average or good. Period. Well, someone better explain that there are no great safeties to that darn Brian Dawkins...cause he is quite simply the GREATEST that I have seen in years. He is so GREAT, that he is one of my favorite football players to watch. He is just one of the GREATEST football players in the NFL period and Im saying that as a Redskins fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SittingBull Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 flexx what i was trying to say was that both marvin lewis when he was with the Skins and Williams last year with the Bills had top 5 ranked defenses with a below average line. As long as the D-Line can stop the run the D can rush the pass from elsewhere. Including safety blitzes. How beautiful will it be when Taylor gets his first sack wearing :helmet: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by bulldog Daniels posted 9 sacks in 1999 and again in 2001 when surrounded by quality talent in the front seven. I don't know what his physical skill leve still is at 31, but if the coaching staff made such an early move to pick him up when he was released I have to believe it is because Blache and Williams think Phillip has some good football left in him. By his own admission the scheme in Chicago in 2003 didn't suit his putting up sack numbers as it did earlier on when he first arrived with the Bears. He has put up respectable numbers vs. the run in terms of tackles, assists, etc. At 6'5 and 288 he brings the kind of size the Skins have been missing at DE in the recent past. Smith and Upshaw were both under 265 at RDE last year. We were undersized at DT as well when we had to rely on Bernard Holsey at 286 to be a starter. For those that suggest the line is poor, I would submit that Daniels and Griffin are a pretty good upgrade from Bruce Smith and Bernard Holsey The Redskins, a team with what I would consider very good depth for the most part, doesn't have any first-team pro bowlers on the DL. But then again it didn't appear in May of 1991 that the Skins had much on the DL except for Charles Mann. Fred Stokes who came in under Plan B became a starter and so did Eric Williams, acquired in a trade from Detroit. . This Def was good for 4 straight years until they neglected it by letting quality D-linemen walk. They wanted to upgrade on offense. This DEf was a top 10 DEF fours running under 3 different def coordinators. The 1 constant was that the d-line was in tact. Last yr. they tried to come in here with other teams D players which produced F results. Its not scheme that made that D bad last yr., it was that piss poor ass line. And its piss poor again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernie5 Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 I am so glad we didn't go after the overpriced Sapp. We'll be fine. Will it be a strength? No. Every team in NFL has a weak point and D-line is ours. We'll live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milliondollarslim Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 the main goal for our d-line is to consistantly stuff the opponents running attack week by week. if we can do that, i belive we can generate pressure with the combination of blitz packages, coverage sacks and Lavar and M. Washington rushing the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by Ernie5 I am so glad we didn't go after the overpriced Sapp. We'll be fine. Will it be a strength? No. Every team in NFL has a weak point and D-line is ours. We'll live. I woulda took Sapp over Griffin any day. Griffin ihas never been anyhting but an average D-linemen and we paid him like he's a superstar. As the D-line goes, so does the Defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 Originally posted by milliondollarslim the main goal for our d-line is to consistantly stuff the opponents running attack week by week. if we can do that, i belive we can generate pressure with the combination of blitz packages, coverage sacks and Lavar and M. Washington rushing the QB. Putting Lavar down in certain packages like 3rd and longs are fine. But Lavar isn't gonna be down full time. Actually I don't think too many team will have 3rd and longs on this D-line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GURU Posted June 4, 2004 Share Posted June 4, 2004 I woulda took Sapp over Griffin any day. Griffin ihas never been anyhting but an average D-linemen and we paid him like he's a superstar. Jevon Kearse signed a "Super Star" contract. Champ Bailey signed a "Super Star" contract. Seems to me that a Super Star requires a signing bounus in the $20 million range. Griffin, on the other hand, got a six-year contract worth $25.5 million that includes an $8 million signing bonus. Sorry, but that's not what you pay a "Super Star." Seems to me that's about the going rate for a competent, 27-year-old defensive lineman. If Griffin plays to the level he has, that's just about the kind of contract to be expected. But Griffin's got some upside. If he plays to his potential, he becomes quite a bargain. As the D-line goes, so does the Defense. It's easy to spew cliches. You don't have to really understand the true complexity of football. If you blame last year's defensive performance on the D-line, you really don't understand the game too well. I would tell you to reread Doc Walker's latest interview. The defense is 11 guys, not 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flexxskins Posted June 5, 2004 Author Share Posted June 5, 2004 Originally posted by SittingBull flexx what i was trying to say was that both marvin lewis when he was with the Skins and Williams last year with the Bills had top 5 ranked defenses with a below average line. As long as the D-Line can stop the run the D can rush the pass from elsewhere. Including safety blitzes. How beautiful will it be when Taylor gets his first sack wearing :helmet: Oh ok. That will definately be a beautiful thing and long awaited. I've only seen a couple of highlight clips of Taylor, but from what I have seen, we can expect him to have a sack or two:cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Westbrook36 Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Originally posted by GURU Jevon Kearse signed a "Super Star" contract. Champ Bailey signed a "Super Star" contract. Seems to me that a Super Star requires a signing bounus in the $20 million range. Griffin, on the other hand, got a six-year contract worth $25.5 million that includes an $8 million signing bonus. Sorry, but that's not what you pay a "Super Star." Seems to me that's about the going rate for a competent, 27-year-old defensive lineman. If Griffin plays to the level he has, that's just about the kind of contract to be expected. But Griffin's got some upside. If he plays to his potential, he becomes quite a bargain. He got an 8 million dollar signing bonus which rivals what the BEST DTS in the league signed for. There is no disputing that. Don't compare players at different positions for salary reasons. He was overpaid. Get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Jumbo Posted June 5, 2004 Share Posted June 5, 2004 Originally posted by DCMONEY Its not scheme that made that D bad last yr., it was that piss poor ass line. And its piss poor again. So you're saying with all the improvements we've made with our coaches and players, that our D is going to be piss poor again because of a DL that (in your opinion) sucks? Please explain this reasoning to me a little more, because I just don't understand. You can't tell me that our defensive coaches this year won't put our players in better positions than our coaches did last year. This isn't a first year coordinator and a 2nd year head coach we're dealing with this year, WE WILL BE BETTER. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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