Afghan Men Struggle With Sexual Identity, Study Finds

[twa]

The only two options aren't people are born gay and that's that, and, people choose to be gay and that's that. I think this article shows that some homosexuality develops because of social forces and not at birth, at the same time I don't think it's a choice. I consider it similar to gender roles. People don't choose to be feminine and masculine, those gender traits are socialized in them (though there are some biological components too). Also, just because there is pretty good evidence that homosexuality can be a socialized trait doesn't mean that there aren't natural tendencies for particular individuals towards one direction or another.

But they're not homosexual,wouldn't they be the best judge of that?

Or are they simply excusing behavior?

Goes back to free will,are we slaves to natural tendencies or a higher consciousness?

True many are more subject to succumbing to addictions and behaviors governed by tendencies that may be genetic,but the born that way seems a cop out to me....no matter what the behavior or socialization.(not restricted to gays)

[Prosperity]

But they're not homosexual,wouldn't they be the best judge of that?

Or are they simply excusing behavior?

Goes back to free will,are we slaves to natural tendencies or a higher consciousness?

True many are more subject to succumbing to addictions and behaviors governed by tendencies that may be genetic,but the born that way seems a cop out to me....no matter what the behavior or socialization.(not restricted to gays)

There is a middle ground

First, I don't know what these dudes are thinking. Second, as to the question of free will and natural tendencies, I'll say that's not the point. You don't have the free will to choose your appetites/desires. You can't of your own free will stop yourself from being hungry, but you can of your own free will stop yourself from eating. Eating is obviously more primal than sexual orientation, but consider something else like gender, there are biological forces (hormone balance) but also social forces that act on people in the beginning to socialize them into valuing somethings and not others according to their sex, and then eventually they develop a gender. You can't choose what those social constructions are, but you can choose to act on them or not.

[twa]

Hunger seems a bit different thing as it is inescapable,diet might be a closer match though...Vegan vs meat eater for example.

I could go w/o red meat or simply eat fish but I certainly don't wish to.

[Prosperity]

yeah that's a much better analogy

[Ghost of]

A quick thing about the whole "no one would choose this route because of the stigma" is an absurdity. Incest creates a stigma in almost every society in human history (though with some exceptions for mythological characters or royalty.) Yet people have engaged in it.

Sexual contact with small children is definitely something that gets you a serious stigma, it doesn't stop a large segment of the populace (not huge but much more than a few hundred folks) from engaging in sex with children or at least viewing images and forming fantasies based on this.

Serial killing, rape, being a burglar, etc. It's a poorly-constructed argument. I'm not saying that being gay or engaging in homosexual acts is the equivalent of rape, murder or pedophilia, merely that the presence of a stigma has never stopped SOME portion of the population from engaging in something that the rest of society has deemed immoral, sick, misguided, etc.

Remember that in Rome, actors and musicians were a socially inferior class. Yet, they had actors and drama In Confucian society merchants were lower than the other classes. Yet they had merchants

[HighOnHendrix]

Hunger seems a bit different thing as it is inescapable,diet might be a closer match though...Vegan vs meat eater for example.

I could go w/o red meat or simply eat fish but I certainly don't wish to.

I think this is a really good analogy. My personal feeling is that people should do what they want for the most part and the rest of us need to stay out of it because it's none of our business unless there is a crime involved.

Not quite. One is taking responsibility and being accountable for wronging someone you made a commitment to. The other is out of your control.

I don't agree. Both are things that are viewed by most people as being morally wrong, yet there are many people who choose of their own free will to go against what society tells them is wrong. The question is who is wrong; is society too strict with its edicts or are the cheaters and homosexuals wrong?

[NavyDave]

The best solution for the Pashtuns is to gather in a canyon with carbombs, embrace a better religion on penalty of death, request asylum in the US (Frisco and Michigan) using the deviant excuse that some Mexicans and other muslims have been doing.

I say go with option one.

[Kunia5]

Where are all the veterans who've done tours downrange, in Iraq and Afghanistan? I know every one who went to Afghanistan at least heard about Pashtun homosexual, deviant culture. It is a subject of many jokes.

Of course it is all true. Most Afghan boys have their first sexual experience with another man. The same for Pakistanis. Sorry, if you're from either country, but it is entirely true. It isn't a smear. Usually it is a male relative or sibling. The whole country would be spending life in the penitentiary if they lived here. It is what you get when access to female sexuality is an impossibility.

As to the "nature vs. nurture" argument, most serial killers tortured animals, wet the bed, and had a distant relationship with their parents. However most people who exhibited the above traits DO NOT turn out to be serial killers. They lead ordinary lives. Societal norms can influence the way people turn out.

Only 5% of the population, at most, are "born" with the homsexual gene. Gays are very theatrical and flamboyant, so their presence in society seems much greater than it actually is. They are very good at parades, broadway shows highlighting gay life, cliquing together in neighborhoods, organizing politically. Hence, they are subject to alot more attention then any other "minority group" (I suppose they would call themselves).