A Close Look at Zorn's Playcalling

[Oldfan]

I thought it was obvious, but apparently not. The PROBLEM I was pointing to is that Zorn's in-game adjustments always seem to be to go away from what is working, and go more heavily to what ISN'T working.

You're right. It is not obvious that posters are referring to "in-game" adjustments when they second guess playcalling. The usual, illogical justification is that the plays didn't work, therefore they must have been poor calls.

Now, the problem with making in-game adjustments for a play caller is the small sample size. If your run is only averaging three YPC on seven carries, that's not a big enough sample to establish a trend for the next seven carries. However, the second-guesser sees 14 calls at three YPC and questions the intelligence of the calls.

There's also the predictability factor. The seven passes on first down were probably more effective BECAUSE of the 14 first down runs.

Losing Chris Samuels early had to be a factor. The passing game will ALWAYS average more per play than the running game. The reason teams don't pass on every play is that the passing game involves more risk -- and logically that risk is higher when you lose your starting LT.

[skins island connection]

Agreed, the playcalling should be more balanced, but;

1} If certain plays are not getting any positive yardage, then stop running them {i.e.; power left goal line}

2} Actually calling the RIGHT play at the right time. this to me is one of the biggest issues. Every team, at certain times, when they get a turnover, they get aggressive and go for 6 or at least a big yardage play. I've only seen typical playcalling, no threat of keeping the momentum gained on the turnover.

There has to be more attacking downfield, not this sideline crap that works 1 out of 20 times. Whether Z doesn't have this killer instinct or JC doesn't have the ability to execute it is what needs to be addressed...

[darrelgreenie]

Zorn's playcalling is at least ONE of them. And this is why I don't really get how people can defend said playcalling. What we've seen for really every game this year basically boils down to:

We can't run on first down, yet we insist on doing so.

We get good results when we throw on first down, yet we refuse to do so.

I read the link in your post, nice read.

I wasn't surprised to read that the Broncos were near the tops in 1st down passing.

Oldfan often mentions that Matt Bowen describes the Pats offense as WCO from the shotgun.

Now that McDaniels, the OC of that offense, is know the architect behind the Broncos offense.

Zorn's playcalling is a mystery wrapped in an enigma.

Looking back at some of last years games his playcalling was more in step with a WCO.

If i had to guess a reason for Zorn's current penchant towards the running game i think its because he's calling games 'not to lose' as opposed to going for the jugular and trying to win.

I think he's hoping the running game gets going and doesn't want to get away from it early.

And i also he's worried about the pass rush and doesn't feel confideny in scheming a passing game around a suspect OL.

What do you think is the reason for his love of the running game.

[darrelgreenie]

You're right. It is not obvious that posters are referring to "in-game" adjustments when they second guess playcalling. The usual, illogical justification is that the plays didn't work, therefore they must have been poor calls.

I thought you would give us a litte more credit then post-facto 'hey that call sucks'

I'm don't mean to second guessing i wanted to hear others fan's opinions of Zorn playcalling when game summaries are layed out right before them.

Also, i'm looking at more then his in-game playcalling.

I have doubts about Zorn's 1st 15 /scripted plays which should be the best of the best when it comes to a teams offense.

We haven't scored early in games (i don't want to look up the stats but i remember its pretty bad) and almost never score on our 1st drives.

Yet, we often move the ball better in the second half of games after other coaches have their half time input like Meidt and Smith and we are forced to pass due to the 1st half ineptitude.

Zorn's opening scripts imo are too run-heavy for our team and especially considering we run a WCO.

We have JC who is statistically a better QB from shotgun yet the Giants, a power running team, are the ones passing from shotgun on their 1st series even on 1st downs!

Did you realize that we haven't ran PA on the goalline once this season?

Losing Chris Samuels early had to be a factor. The passing game will ALWAYS average more per play than the running game. The reason teams don't pass on every play is that the passing game involves more risk -- and logically that risk is higher when you lose your starting LT.

I'm sure losing Samuels early was a factor in the Panther's game but what about the other games?

Now that Samuels is out i'm worried that this offense is going to return the 3 step drop passing game we saw last year.

[darrelgreenie]

Agreed, the playcalling should be more balanced, but;

Actually i'm not saying that the playcalling should be balanced certainly not on 1st down.

The play calling should be geared to the strength of the our team.

Which happens to be Jason Campbell and the passing game.

And the play calling should reflect the priciples of the offensive system i.e. WCO not go against the philosophy.

Imo the playcalling should not be balanced, especially on 1st downs, it should be around 60/40 pass to run at the beginning of games.

Then if we get the lead in the second then we can shift to balance or run heavy if its working.

[RandyHolt]

We are still too predictable. 50% 50% pass run on first. Book it. The problem, they are dink passes, maybe one downfield. Zorn is afraid of defenses so he calls short slants to Moss in press coverage and we hope for flags. He needs to throw away everything he is doing, and be aggressive. Watching the Jet Dolphins game, the offenses very aggressive and unpredictable.... sigh.

I wish someone would do some research and see how many time opposing offenses passed when we thought it was a running down, and had MolassesD at LDE.

[darrelgreenie]

I wish someone would do some research and see how many time opposing offenses passed when we thought it was a running down, and had MolassesD at LDE.

I saw an example of this in the Giants game when i was looking at the game summary for my OP.

The Giants a power running team came out passing:

New York Giants at 15:00, (1st play from scrimmage 14:55)

1-10-NYG 22 (14:55) E.Manning pass short right to M.Manningham pushed ob at NYG 25 for 3 yards (L.Fletcher).

2-7-NYG 25 (14:30) E.Manning FUMBLES (Aborted) at NYG 25, recovered by NYG-R.Seubert at NYG 29.

R.Seubert to NYG 29 for no gain (L.Fletcher).

3-3-NYG 29 (13:43) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short middle to S.Smith to NYG 36 for 7 yards (F.Smoot). P1

1-10-NYG 36 (13:01) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass incomplete short left to D.Hixon (C.Rogers).

2-10-NYG 36 (12:53) B.Jacobs right guard to NYG 39 for 3 yards (C.Horton, L.Fletcher).

3-7-NYG 39 (12:13) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass deep middle to M.Manningham to WAS 36 for 25 yards (D.Hall). P2

1-10-WAS 36 (11:30) B.Jacobs right tackle to WAS 31 for 5 yards (L.Landry).

2-5-WAS 31 (10:52) E.Manning pass short middle to K.Boss to WAS 20 for 11 yards (C.Horton) [A.Carter]. P3

1-10-WAS 20 (10:01) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short middle to B.Jacobs to WAS 12 for 8 yards (L.Fletcher).

Timeout #1 by NYG at 09:16.

2-2-WAS 12 (9:16) B.Jacobs left end to WAS 11 for 1 yard (L.Fletcher, C.Horton).

3-1-WAS 11 (8:30) A.Bradshaw right tackle to WAS 11 for no gain (L.Landry, L.Fletcher).

New York Giants at 4:52

1-10-NYG 20 (4:52) B.Jacobs left tackle to NYG 24 for 4 yards (P.Daniels, L.Fletcher).

2-6-NYG 24 (4:19) E.Manning pass incomplete short middle to B.Jacobs (L.Fletcher).

3-6-NYG 24 (4:06) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass deep left to S.Smith to NYG 41 for 17 yards (L.Landry). P4

1-10-NYG 41 (3:19) (Shotgun) E.Manning pass short right to A.Bradshaw to NYG 39 for -2 yards (R.McIntosh).

2-12-NYG 39 (2:39) A.Bradshaw right tackle to WAS 39 for 22 yards (L.Landry). R5

1-10-WAS 39 (1:53) B.Jacobs right end pushed ob at WAS 24 for 15 yards (L.Landry). R6

PENALTY on WAS-L.Landry, Personal Foul, 12 yards, enforced at WAS 24. X7

Timeout #1 by WAS at 01:24.

1-10-WAS 12 (1:24) E.Manning pass short middle to S.Smith to WAS 5 for 7 yards (B.Orakpo).

2-3-WAS 5 (:48) B.Jacobs right guard to WAS 3 for 2 yards (L.Fletcher).

3-1-WAS 3 (:04) B.Jacobs left tackle to WAS 3 for no gain (L.Fletcher, D.Hall).

The Giants playcalling was were truer to the WCO philosophy then Zorn.

The problem, they are dink passes, maybe one downfield. Zorn is afraid of defenses so he calls short slants to Moss in press coverage and we hope for flags. He needs to throw away everything he is doing, and be aggressive. Watching the Jet Dolphins game, the offenses very aggressive and unpredictable.... sigh.

I don't even mind the dink and dunk because its a key part of the WCO.

Imo Zorn needs to return to how he called game when we were 6-2 and commit even more to the passing game.

If were going to dink and dunk do it right.

Do you remember how the 2007 Packers looked?

They had a banged up patch work OL also.

Favre was in shotgun all the time and the Packers came out passing early and often with the dink and dunk and kept passing the whole game while mixing in a run and a deep ball here and there.

Imo that is what Zorn needs to do.

Play to the strengths of this team which is the passing game.

Mitigate the weakness, which is the OL, with a quick passing attack.

Put JC in the shotgun spread 3-4 wide and have it.

[skins island connection]

Actually i'm not saying that the playcalling should be balanced certainly not on 1st down.

The play calling should be geared to the strength of the our team.

Which happens to be Jason Campbell and the passing game.

And the play calling should reflect the priciples of the offensive system i.e. WCO not go against the philosophy.

Imo the playcalling should not be balanced, especially on 1st downs, it should be around 60/40 pass to run at the beginning of games.

Then if we get the lead in the second then we can shift to balance or run heavy if its working.

RIGHT!

The 1st dn passing for the most part catches teams off guard, and usually end up with good production.

A balanced offense that I am thinking of is more on the lines of showing run but passing, and vise versa.

The offense as of now is predictable, at least in formation; look at the goal line runs they've tried and failed; from 1st down on, especially inside the 5, they should have a 3 receiver set on the field, at least it spreads the defenses some, and if they decide to run on 1st down, they're not trying to plow through 21 players all bunched up together.

That formation drives me to drink because it never works, unless CP hurtles the line, which i've only seen once this year...

[darrelgreenie]

RIGHT!

The 1st dn passing for the most part catches teams off guard, and usually end up with good production..........look at the goal line runs they've tried and failed; from 1st down on, especially inside the 5, they should have a 3 receiver set on the field, at least it spreads the defenses some, and if they decide to run on 1st down, they're not trying to plow through 21 players all bunched up together.

That formation drives me to drink because it never works, unless CP hurtles the line, which i've only seen once this year...

I don't mind the 'jumbo' formation at/near the goalline i don't even mind that we run the ball, but i don't understand why we don't at least try a playcation pass to the TE from the jumbo set like every other team in the NFL does when they're on the goalline.

[sunny]

You have got to be kidding me- look at Jackson and Maclin from Phillie- both passed on by the brain trust

[darrelgreenie]

There are plenty of problems with this team and organization, but Zorn's playcalling is at least ONE of them. And this is why I don't really get how people can defend said playcalling. What we've seen for really every game this year basically boils down to:

We can't run on first down, yet we insist on doing so.

We get good results when we throw on first down, yet we refuse to do so.

Well Zorn is done as playcaller.

And i think Sherman Lewis is supposed to call the plays.

But who is going to design the gameplan and create the 1st opening play sequence?