Capaign for Liberty: Bombs and Bribes

[twa]

Gonna dump another wheelbarrow load of BS and hope everybody will forget your last one?

I thought that was your shtick?

If you subscribe to us (Obama) killing innocents and creating terrorists with bombs and bribes as RP alluded to,I would naturally assume you consider him a war criminal.

I on the other hand have his back:hysterical:

Kinda fun to deal in absolutes eh?

Let me add a interesting read for the uninformed

http://www.jamestown.org/programs/gta/single/?tx_ttnews[tt_news]=35565&tx_ttnews[backPid]=26&cHash=c92a7f896e

As it transpires, they were not the only ones. In a strange twist that seemed to fly in the face of the common belief that the Pashtun tribes in the FATA were being driven into the hands of the Taliban by the strikes, a Pakistani think tank carried out an opinion poll in the region that seemed to prove just the opposite. In the spring of 2009 the Aryana Institute for Regional Research and Advocacy interviewed hundreds of Pashtuns in FATA and found that 52% of them considered the air strikes to be accurate, 58% of them did not believe that the strikes caused anti-Americanism, 60% of them felt that the strikes damaged the militants, and 70% of them felt that the Pakistani army should also target the militants. [2]

The results of the poll, the first of its kind carried out in the region that has born the brunt of the strikes, would seem to indicate that many Pashtun tribesmen welcomed the strikes even if the rest of their countrymen did not. According to Pashtun journalist Farhat Taj:

"Hatred against the Taliban in the Pakhtun [Pashtun] areas is at an all-time high and so is disappointment, even resentment, about the Pakistani army for its failure to stop the Taliban. Many people in the Taliban-occupied territories of the NWFP and FATA told me they constantly pray for the U.S. drones to bomb the Taliban headquarters in their areas since the Pakistani army is unwilling to do so. Many people of Waziristan told me they are satisfied with the U.S. drone attacks on militants in Waziristan and they want the Americans to keep it up [until] all the militants, local Pakhtun [Pashtun], the Punjabis and the foreigners, are eliminated" (The News, January 23).

It is perhaps this sort of Pashtun sentiment, and a growing realization among all Pakistanis that the creeping Taliban movement represents a threat to their state (especially since the Taliban’s bold seizure of Swat Province which lies close the capital), that has driven the Pakistani government to openly acknowledge that the unmanned planes were being launched from Pakistan in May 2009

[Hubbs]

There is no 'that' excuse.

http://terrorism.about.com/od/causes/a/causes_terror.htm

There is nothing inside any person nor in their circumstances that sends them—like a monopoly piece headed directly to "Go"—directly to terrorism. Instead, there are certain conditions, some of which make violence against civilians seem like a reasonable, and even necessary option. Despite this, and some of the deeply unforgivable circumstances that foster terrorism, people always have the free will to seek another course of action.

Find what makes it seem reasonable to target civilians in a focused fashion.

Are you kidding? You don't think religion creates "reason" in their minds?

(And no, I don't mean it's specifically Islam that does this. Any religion can create "reason" to commit horrendous acts - just look at the history of Christianity.)

[twa]

Maybe he won't, but I have no problem jumping on that bandwagon. Frankly, he is even more dangerous than someone like Dick Cheney.

Well he certainly has better covering fire from both the left and right obviously;)

You are nothing if not consistent sir :cool:

[twa]

Are you kidding? You don't think religion creates "reason" in their minds?

(And no, I don't mean it's specifically Islam that does this. Any religion can create "reason" to commit horrendous acts - just look at the history of Christianity.)

Certainly,religion is a primary belief system,and the twisting of it enables justification in their mind....pretty sure I attributed it primarily to that earlier.

And yes it is not limited to Islam.

[Hubbs]

Certainly,religion is a primary belief system,and the twisting of it enables justification in their mind....pretty sure I attributed it primarily to that earlier.

And yes it is not limited to Islam.

Then you can't claim that they don't think what they're doing is reasonable.

[twa]

Then you can't claim that they don't think what they're doing is reasonable.

Never made that claim, nor did the piece I quoted...is it the free will part remaining throwing ya off?

They consider it not only morally reasonable but beneficial as well,with the killing of innocents improving life (by their choice,not religions command).

[Hubbs]

Never made that claim, nor did the piece I quoted...is it the free will part remaining throwing ya off?

They consider it not only morally reasonable but beneficial as well,with the killing of innocents improving life (by their choice,not religions command).

You said, "Find what makes it reasonable." If that doesn't involve a personal definition of "reasonable," then what's the point of the challenge?

[twa]

You said, "Find what makes it reasonable." If that doesn't involve a personal definition of "reasonable," then what's the point of the challenge?

Ah, now I see

Do external factors create internal reason?...it certainly influences our definition of innocent.

But we are not slaves to our environment....except by choice(neither actions nor rhetoric can MAKE you embrace the killing of innocents)

[Burgold]

Oh military actions certainly have consequences,but creating terrorists is hardly the norm.

You can possibly find a few,but you must look elsewhere for the majority.

But you are free to believe the exception is the rule,we all create our own reality by default.

I think of it this way. After 9/11, a lot of Americans rallied at food banks, blood banks, and began donating like crazy. There were also a lot of people who joined the military to protect their families, and serve their nation against the ****s that did this to us.

An innocent Afghani who finds his children blown apart or his neighborhood wrecked might have the same stirrings to do something. He may volunteer at the hospital, he may want to give blood, or he may be moved to defend his people (including via terrorism).

If you lost your family via a drone attack it would be damn hard for you not to hate the U.S. If you were rational enough you might also hate the terrorist ****s too because without their actions we wouldn't be there, but a lot of your anger would be directed at the guy who pulled the trigger.

[twa]

Yes Bur,but what is really terrorism and which are real threats?

Peters divides them into Practical and Apocalyptic

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usmc/ceto/when_devils_walk_the_earth.pdf

The practical ones are much easier to both contain and predict,as well as generally local in nature.

[Burgold]

Yes Bur,but what is really terrorism and which are real threats?

Peters divides them into Practical and Apocalyptic

http://www.au.af.mil/au/awc/awcgate/usmc/ceto/when_devils_walk_the_earth.pdf

The practical ones are much easier to both contain and predict,as well as generally local in nature.

I'll read the article when I get back, but I think that perception might be more telling in terms of terrorism versus threat. We would never call a drone attack terrorism, but to someone waking up to find that their neighborhood was struck and they lost friends, they might. Perception creates reality. Their emotional response to our attack would be pretty much the same as theirs was to us.

At least in terms of recruitment and people choosing to become terrorists. Mind you, I don't think that's where the largest number of terrorists come from because if it did there wouldn't be any terrorists. I do think it is something that encourages hate though.

Not sure that anything can be done about it. The answer to terrorism certainly can't be do nothing and they'll go away. A bully who gets away with bullying usually gets worse.