Wrong Direction Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 The market would have to demonstrate that. So far, with the rise of costs, it has not done so of late. You're just not getting it. The current system is a mess created by government limitations everywhere you look. The market is reflecting the legal framework of our system and the pricing pressures resulting from hundreds of billions of dollars a year in government payments/rates, huge regulation and thousands of mandates. I really wish a knowledgable conservative could successfully articulate why our system is how it is today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 What? Seriously? You didn't even try, did you? It is a three-step process for this "wizard."It is called the "Saver 80" plan: Plan Type Deductible Coinsurance Office Visit Network $10,000 20% Not Covered $52.37 Monthly Cost Call me king, baby. You quoted a plan with a $10,000 deductible? Really are you that ignorant? I know you are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Lol, you said a doctor not accepting an insurance plan is rationing. It's 100% false. When you make that claim, you better have an airtight argument! Let's see what you have. . . . First, patients know before they choose a plan or go to their doctor whether or not the two have enterred into contract. Second, it's two private businesses that are making the decisions. I'm not going to go further on this, you can look it up. "Rationing" can happen before, during, and after a patient is accepted. And it does not matter if the contract is private or public one. I did look it up -- here is one article from a person in the industry: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sarah-lovinger/health-care-rationing-the_b_225396.html Then you moved the ball to bring up a health insurer refusing to pay for something due to costs. This too isn't rationing, it's a private business setting their coverage criteria PRIOR TO entering into a contract with an individual member. You seem to have this perception that rationing only happens under a government system: It doesn't. And you are totally ignoring the reality that some folks, whose insurance is supposed to cover a treatment, refuse to do so, even if they have "entered into a contract" with the provider. This is an issue which affects many people. That's right, when you're accepted into a plan, they're obligated by law to provide their benefits to you in advance, and they must provide those benefits or risk being sued. WThere are many instances of the providers doing their best to avoid their responsibility, regardless of any supposed legal responsibility. Take this story just from yesterday: http://thinkprogress.org/2009/09/15/crystal-lee-sutton/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 You quoted a plan with a $10,000 deductible? Really are you that ignorant?I know you are not. Oh lord. :doh: Now when I posted a $53.00 plan, you say I am "ignorant," when you said it didn't exist in the first place. You said I would be the king -- where is my crown? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Oh lord. :doh: Now when I posted a $53.00 plan, you say I am "ignorant," when you said it didn't exist in the first place. You said I would be the king -- where is my crown? Dude you really make yourself look silly with such nonsense. NOBODY is talking about a plan with a $10,000 deductible. Why don't you make it $100,000 and make it free. Intelligent arguements I can deal with. Silliness is a waste of my time. Later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I'm tired. Good discussion all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 You're just not getting it. The current system is a mess created by government limitations everywhere you look. The market is reflecting the legal framework of our system and the pricing pressures resulting from hundreds of billions of dollars a year in government payments/rates, huge regulation and thousands of mandates. The health care industry's profits have risen by leaps and bounds. If the government is intervening, it is for their benefit. And your argument does not explain to why premiums have doubled over the last decade. I really wish a knowledgable conservative could successfully articulate why our system is how it is today. What you're looking for are the arguments for health care deregulation. The argument is that regulation restricts competition in the market, i.e., on the supply side. This is the argument I used to make just a year or two ago. Deregulation, in some areas, would be useful, but I am not convinced it is a cure all for all the system's ailments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 I'm tired. Good discussion all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baculus Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Dude you really make yourself look silly with such nonsense.NOBODY is talking about a plan with a $10,000 deductible. Why don't you make it $100,000 and make it free. Intelligent arguements I can deal with. Silliness is a waste of my time. Later. I brought this plan up, you said it did not exist, and I provided information that it does, indeed. It isn't my issue if you do not care for it -- I don't work for that provider. As I said before, I only brought it up to mention that some cheap plans do exist, but they are not exactly ideal. I think that point was lost in your attempt to "prove me wrong." Later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 Bac, that type of plan will no longer exist under HB 3200(along with the HSA's that usually go with them:chair:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrong Direction Posted September 18, 2009 Share Posted September 18, 2009 The health care industry's profits have risen by leaps and bounds. If the government is intervening, it is for their benefit. And your argument does not explain to why premiums have doubled over the last decade. Have you ever considered why prices have risen so much in the last decade? Hint, if you do the math, the rise in insurance company profits doesn't close to making up for overall inflation. This is a complicated marketplace, narrowing the problem down to insurance company profits isn't reasonable. What you're looking for are the arguments for health care deregulation. The argument is that regulation restricts competition in the market, i.e., on the supply side. This is the argument I used to make just a year or two ago. Deregulation, in some areas, would be useful, but I am not convinced it is a cure all for all the system's ailments. No, I'm looking for re-regulation. I'm looking for regulations that maintain oversight, even enhance it in some areas (e.g., potentially for pre-existing conditions) while changing the artificial government limitations on individual choice. I'd like to pose this question, if you don't mind. What is it about any of Obama's/House/Senate plans that you like with respect to pricing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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