"Have you no sense of decency, sir? At long last, have you left no sense of decency?"

[Cskin]

....You get the idea Air Sarge, that the govt. has a way of twisting the truth into whatever it deems helpful to it's cause. Roll your eyes at me again and you'll realize one is swelling shut, a perfect compliment to go with your puffy lip and blood-soaked teeth.

[Henry]

Originally posted by Cskin

I may have mispoken, or at the very least constructed my sentence incorrectly and poorly. I'm also not lopping all of the Jewish faith together in a big pile for judgement. I'm talking about a small minority of Jewish German citizens, a group with power and influence whom very cleverly realized how to come about a preferred end result.

Not good enough Cskin. I'll try to respond as tactfully as I can.

I have no doubt that the slaughter of millions of European Jews led the some of the survivors to beg the Allies for help. They probably also realized that history's lesson was Jews in Europe could never count on their country's government to protect them, or even not persecute them, and it was subsequently a good idea to press for a Jewish state independant of European rule.

However, to twist this realization into some sort of Grand Jewish Plot to take over the world by capitalizing on German brutality is sick. I don't care what bizarre, stupid insanely assanine whacked out theories conspirsts who have too much free time like to dream up. There are plenty of other lame-brained schemes to concoct without latching onto the depraved notions of White Supremacy. Despite the venom spewed at Israel over the past few days I'm still shocked that anyone would even attempt such an endeavor on this board. Absolutely shocked.

[fansince62]

what a completely idiotic thread....

1) the Arab states, as a matter of national policy, committed themselves to the extermination of Israel for over a quarter century. there has been a ceaseless parade of terrorist acts against Israeli interests globally for the last 50 years. While I may not agree with the methods the Israeli's employ from time to time, I still am able to step back, survey the historical horizon and understand who the aggressors have been. Rationalize all you want - those are the cold facts. That our interests coincide with Israel's when it comes to eliminating terrorism is fortunate for them - but doesn't lead ineluctably to the conclusion that there is some cabal and that 250 million Americans have been duped.

2) If you are going to postulate invasions of privacy please produce the proof that substantiates the claim that this invasiveness has increased appreciably. Please survey all the laws - don't just pick and chose. Please gather some real world experience. Realize also that, as is often the case witih technology, tehere is a dual use quality to much of this. Is keeping data on private transactions invasive, or does it help establish illegal activities practiced by individuals in the conduct of their businesses? Work with the folks who are charged with this responsibility. Determine how they function. Work with the technology. It never ceases to amaze me how folks who would respond vociferously were I to comment on how they execute their business feel absolutely empowered and informed to comment on processes and capabilities they know absolutely nothing about.

let me put it another way. there is a patently stupid notion that law enforcement, military, intelligence agencies are monolithic entities and that everyone who works for these institutions shares a uniform moral code, ethics, political philosophy...that they just blindly follow orders from the top......that there are no internal controls, no internal checks and balances, that there aren't divisions of opinion........that that aren't folks who are concerned and believe in the rule of law.........

I've been absent from this thread....but I've never seen overt violence threatened as was present in Cskin's last post. Is this acceptable? I've always refrained from moving in this direction, no matter how angry I may have been, cuz you never know what someone is capable of or what his associates can do......

[Cskin]

However, to twist this realization into some sort of Grand Jewish Plot to take over the world by capitalizing on German brutality is sick. I don?t care what bizarre, stupid insanely assanine whacked out theories conspirsts who have too much free time like to dream up. There are plenty of other lame-brained schemes to concoct without latching onto the depraved notions of White Supremacy. Despite the venom spewed at Israel over the past few days I?m still shocked that anyone would even attempt such an endeavor on this board. Absolutely shocked.

what part of "small minority of Jewish German citizens" don't you understand? I accepted the fact that I mispoke, that I failed to be more specific as to the scope of the group seeking an opportunity to carve out a place to call their own. And... I certainly didn't say anything about capitalizing on the German's brutality, there isn't a person on this earth that could somehow rationalize that kind of atrocity. Somehow, somewhere, you have chosen to use this as an attempt to point out to the masses someone being anti-semetic, to make you feel better perhaps, which couldn't be further from the truth. I'm not about to give you the pleasure to paint this picture with your striking color paints and sharp edges/angles and any other way you see fit.

I've been absent from this thread....but I've never seen overt violence threatened as was present in Cskin's last post. Is this acceptable? I've always refrained from moving in this direction, no matter how angry I may have been, cuz you never know what someone is capable of or what his associates can do......

There was a reason I placed the smiley face where I did, I was simply kidding. He sent a post rolling his eyes and quoting me, which I found funny, so after searching through the emoticons I found nothing stronger and chose words instead and a smiley face to imply my joke. Furthermore, in this particular forum where politics and fervor can steam a room faster than a malfuntioning sauna... I'd expect far worse at times.

[Henry]

what part of "small minority of Jewish German citizens" don't you understand? I accepted the fact that I mispoke, that I failed to be more specific as to the scope of the group seeking an opportunity to carve out a place to call their own.

I 'may have misspoken' suddenly becomes fact now? Thanks for clarifying. While you were so generous as to narrow your scope of duplicitous Jews in Nazi Germany, I still find the further implication that the US, UK and Germany were merely innocent pawns of powerful Jews who planned on reaping 'spoils of war' by betraying their 'own homeland' highly offensive, not only as a Jew but as an American.

The fact that you don't think the decisions of certain Jews living in Nazi Germany, no matter how small in number and 'powerful', were affected by the Holocaust is itself scary. I mean, what exactly were you trying to say then? Some German Jews weren't being rounded up and murdered because they were so rich and powerful, and they took it upon themselves to call upon the forces of the West to destroy their country?

I didn't call you anti-semitic. And I don't think you are. But the example you are presenting mirrors that of anti-semetic groups, and that should tell you something.

[fansince62]

Cskin....roger on the violence part!!!.......as for the rest........