Could'a, Would'a, Should'a Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I know your other FA guys cost almost nothing but you've just given out 20+ Mill in bonuses to Coles & Thomas alone. Am i missing somthing here? how the hell can you afford this with Baileys contract coming up next year? I do like Coles btw, he'd be great next to Gardner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teoskin Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 You can do this, because of the fact of prorated bonuses. The player is guaranteed the money, but not all in that first year. Plus on the Coles offer sheet 2 million is just a roster bonus in 2006. That is to make it tougher for the Jets to match According to Pasquerelli of ESPN, Coles would just account for 2.31 million against our cap this year. Then next year, we don't have $15 million in dead money, which willl leave us plenty of money to resign/franchise Champ Bailey. They skins have it set up for a 3 year plan, the next three years, we can keep the entire team in tact, in plans for a SB run without any really tough cap complications. After that, we may run into some cap issues, but I'm not a capologist. If you are really curious about how the whole thing breaks down and how the skins pull this off, go to http://pub229.ezboard.com/fcpndhardcorefrm1 and talk to PCinOZ. Plus there is some more cap knowledgable people on this board, like Art. -Teo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy-the-Greek Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think it is funny how guys who have never or hardly ever seen Coles play can speak so highly of him. I can be in the meadow lands in 35 minutes from my home. I get all the Jet games on regular cable tv here. I have seen almost every Jet game that wasn't oppostie a skin game. I have been to 3 Jet games in the past 3 years. My buddy has season tickets and always asks me to go I usually say no. My buddy tells me Coles has a big time problem getting off the line. He says he is bullied by bigger CB's and just doesn't release well. The three games I have seen were always vs. the Pats. The Pats know how to defend him and just like my buddy said he had a tough time getting off the line. They would mugg him at the line or bump him within the first 5 and knock him off the route and throw off his timing. I would rather have a bigger wr with the same speed. He reminds me of J Green. I just hate the idea of using our 1st rd. pick on a guy that will be our 2nd or 3rd reciever. I would rather have a dt in the first and get a wr in the 2nd. I guess I am more comfortable with the wr's we have now then everyone else. I just think with our vastly improved interior line Ramsey will have the time to hit our recievers. I also believe with another camp under there belts Ramsey will gell with the recievers. I have one question. If Coles was comming out in this draft would he be taken in the top 13? I think not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsThug Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 #13 is too high and we need a DT worse than we need Coles IMO. I'm trying to think of blue ribbon receivers that were on playoff teams last year and there weren't many -- in fact, hardly any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Joe Hog Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Originally posted by Art RR, Now you better hope a defensive tackle falls assuming we do get Coles. I'd go defensive line on both picks and hope one sticks. Art, with a little creativity, we could still move up to the early 2nd round or even late first round and get that DT. I say two thumbs up on Coles! Frankly, as good as Morton is, I'd prefer that the Jets match his offer (for cap reasons only) and we sign Dyson. IMO Dyson is a very good slot receiver and PR. Gardner, Coles, and Dyson would be a HUGE WR upgrade. They and the OL might make Ramsey into a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonny Joe Hog Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Originally posted by DIESEL TROLL Coles is speedy, yet I have noticed that when he works with a short field, he is not nearly as proficient as he is with the deep threat. Also, if you combine a height disadvantage WITH a short field, Coles' effectiveness becomes void....... , IMO this one is a "coin toss" at best and only if Spurrier uses a 3 wide-out set in key situations . :stop: That's where Dyson, Gardner, Royal and Canidate will shine (assuming we sign Dyson). We need the deep threat. The coaches can get him open with motion or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtandler Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Originally posted by SkinsThug I'm trying to think of blue ribbon receivers that were on playoff teams last year and there weren't many -- in fact, hardly any. Hmmm, let's see here. Terrell Owens, Marvin Harrison, Coles, Jerry Rice, Keyshawn Johnson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BD Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 This is a fantastic move. Brilliant. And so much less compared to moving up to get Johnson or Rogers. Coles is a young player on the upswing. Mad skills. Perfect fit for the offense. His price tag is a little high, but compared to all the money we've been saving on other acquisitions (Randy Thomas is the only expensive one) to this point, I think that he's no more expensive than Johnson or Rogers would've been. Plus, I really like the name "Laveranues." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BD Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Originally posted by tommy-the-greek I think it is funny how guys who have never or hardly ever seen Coles play can speak so highly of him. I can be in the meadow lands in 35 minutes from my home. I get all the Jet games on regular cable tv here. I have seen almost every Jet game that wasn't oppostie a skin game. I have been to 3 Jet games in the past 3 years. My buddy has season tickets and always asks me to go I usually say no. My buddy tells me Coles has a big time problem getting off the line. He says he is bullied by bigger CB's and just doesn't release well. The three games I have seen were always vs. the Pats. The Pats know how to defend him and just like my buddy said he had a tough time getting off the line. They would mugg him at the line or bump him within the first 5 and knock him off the route and throw off his timing. I would rather have a bigger wr with the same speed. He reminds me of J Green... I have one question. If Coles was comming out in this draft would he be taken in the top 13? I think not. I've seen several Jets games, both when I lived in NY awhile back and courtesy of DirecTV. I agree that Coles has some problems coming off the line -- but they really aren't anywhere near to the problems of someone like Quezzie. My chief memory of what I'd yell to my brother when we were watching any Jets games was that they didn't know how to use the talent they had. I picked the Jets to lose to the Raiders specifically for that reason... that Gang Green didn't know how to use Coles' breakaway speed to their advantage. Spurrier has never had that problem. Coles size is less of an issue when he's in a multiple WR set -- which is mostly what Ballcoach likes to use, anyway. And the one thing you can't argue with is that Coles does stretch the field, even in the Jets conservative offense. Coles was just crazy in the Packers game at the end of the season, busting thru their secondary and forcing the Pack to bite on play action and allow ten yard dumpoffs. Coles ain't no J. Green. He's faster, smarter, more agile, and he doesn't have strength problems. You talk about him taking CB abuse... but despite that abuse, he still had a 1200+ yard season. I think Coles can have that much again in Spurrier's system. He and Gardner can be next year's Moulds and Price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golgo-13 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I'm getting giddy over this. I have to say, it's without a doubt the most value we could get for our current pick. Moving up to get Rogers or Johnson would be just TOO expensive. Not to mention that IMHO Johnson will be a bust. He just has Westrbook written all over him. Wiith Coles we get a PROVEN threat. Johnson and even Rogers are great prospects, but not yet PROVEN in the NFL. I mean, come one, I would love to pick DL too, but we all know our front office wouldn't do it. Let's be honest, would you rather have Taylor Jacobs, Kelly Washington or Coles? For me, that's an easy choice. Thumbs up from this poster. Big thumbs up! :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 13 million in bonus $$$, and you guys are happy about this? Gee, what kind of bonus $ you think Champ will demand next year? How much longer does Gardner have left on his contract? How much will Gardner want when he proves himself to be the #1 above Coles our #2 (Believe me, it WILL happen that way!) What kind of demands will LaVar and Samuels make when we need to restructure their contracts? Our DL is still at best unspectacular; at worst an injury away from collapse made up of an injury prone ensemble. None of our plethora of RBs has ever played through an entire season. Maybe Ramsey will get 4,000 yards passing, but we might still get creamed in the trenches - with teams running up our gut all day while their D drops into heavy coverage every play because we don't have a significant running threat. What then? Cuz we won't have the cap space to pick up the Def linemen we need and the power RB to win time of possession. I loved our early signings, but I got the jitters when we over-offered on Morton. Now I'm horrified over what we're offering Coles, as well as the fact that we're giving up the opportunity to grab a solid DT in the most DL rich draft in memory.:doh: :doh: I am not a happy camper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbooma Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think this is a HUGE deal for the skins. Coles and Price are very similiar type WR's, however, Coles was the #1 in NY and Price was the #2 behind Moulds (who I think is so underated). This means that yes Price had and incredible year, he wasn't doubled team as much as coles though. Coles also didn't have a QB till the Pennington started, which was the 6th game. The bonus is a little bit high, but according to Synder, we can keep this team for 3 years. Which is what we needed all along, stability. I can see the skins trading for a 1st rounder to get the DT they need, and they are going to keep big daddy so that will help. Don't worry about champ and lavar, the will get paid. After next year we have all that dead money off the cap. Go SKINS, dam only 5 months go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Trevor Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 If the Jets don't match than this will be the one of our many FA acquisitions that I am the most excited about. The offense lacked a playmaker at wideout in the worst way and there was very little shot of finding it with the FA's left and the relatively thin wide receivers in the draft. And yet we still found(well hopefully) a way to get one. And a damn good, young one at that. Now Spurrier can open his offense up having two very good receivers, one of the fastest rb's in the league, a strong armed smart qb who is only going to get better and a very good line to give him time. And if we add Dyson to be the #3 then the offense might really be something considering Dyson and McCants at #3 and 4 would have advantages over almost all other 3rd and 4th cornerbacks in the league. That is where and how I think Spurrier's offense will most be effective in the NFL. Since it seems as though we will keep BDW(was mentioned in the Post this weekend I think) I think we are largely set(depending on the Jets' decisions) at almost every position for the next couple years. Since it's such a deep d-line draft I think that there will be quality available in round 2 to help find either a tackle or an end. I think Dewayne White would be an excellent pickup with the 2nd rounder. Also you never know we may deal Smoot for a first rounder and snatch a falling d-lineman on draft day and then take a corner in the 2nd round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabblerouser Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Yes to Coles if and only if we were going to give up the draft/Smoot for Rogers and Johnson. Not a super big Smoot fan but not willing to create a hole to fill another. It will be interesting to see what we do if the Jets keep Coles though? Morten who knows. Didn't like giving up the 4 & 7 to get a 5 and then the wrong one at that, so we get knocked down in the 3rd. :doh: Bowen for a 6th is ok. Not that big of a gamble. It may cost us a shot at one of the better punters. But yeah, alright. Let's hope that the FO haven't focused all their attention on judging FA talent while shortchanging the draft. We still really need the second and third rounders to defintely pan out. We need to be ready to strike just prior to and during the draft as we did at the start of FA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins Trumpet-Man Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 i feel the need.....the need for speed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeathByLinebacker Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I can't believe some of you are complaining about Coles getting off the line when he did it 89 times for 1264 yards last year. Yeah, NFL CBs really had him wrapped up. He had 5 catches for 78 yards and a 32yd TD last time he played the Patriots, so apparently they don't have a magic formula to stop him. He's a proven NFL commodity, which is more than can be said about any player in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedsKingz Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 thumbs up, we will get the dt/de we need in the 2nd. we were gonna draft a wr in the first anyways, and getting johnson or rogers would have just cost us too much.. maybe or 1st and 2nd, that would leave us with an unproven receiver and a very late round draft for a dt/de. i would rather have the choices of dt/de in the 2nd and the peace of mind of a proven receiver, than an unproven receiver, and the choices we would have of dt/de in the 3rd round. not to mention the potential of losing smoot or other draft pick... sure coles have his flaws, who doesn't, he meets most of the standards we are looking for in a receiver, i'm just shocked spurrier is taking in a 'noles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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